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07-08-2023, 01:59 AM | #581 |
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Since the topic suddenly turned into a discussion of Geats, I will write what suits it. All the main characters in this show are bad. They are selfish, traitors and liars. And you can write as much as you like about the fact that good characters have bad traits, this will not change the fact. Yes, they will save you from the monster (in Michinaga's case, not sure), but would you like to be friends with such people? Work with them? Fight shoulder to shoulder? How is Ace setting up Keiva to get a ninja buckle different from General Patton driving soldiers on a night attack through a minefield? And that's the problem with the whole show. It does not have the light that was in Ryuki, Fayze, Gaim, and even the Amazons. There is no one who will show that the world can be better. Even if it fails. Does not lie those who die quickly, Tsurumi, Iruma and Archimedel.
And this cannot be explained by the realism loved by Niram. Because there is no realism here, and not at all because of the fantastic nature of the show. In reality, traitors are outcasts. In reality, for cheating in competitions, you will most often be kicked out in disgrace, and not declared the winner. In reality, you can end up in jail for cheating. In reality, lying creates problems, not solves them. So it's not realism, it's dark fantasy. Trying to enter the territory of things like "The Boys" and "Black Sun", while remaining within the limits of his age category. But I sincerely do not wish anyone in the future to cross paths with the current six-year-old, for whom Ace has become an example. Trust me, you won't like this experience. Last edited by Mesnick; 07-08-2023 at 02:05 AM.. |
07-08-2023, 02:04 AM | #582 |
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Here's what I noticed. In shows like riders vs monsters, the negative behavior of the characters is written down as a flaw in the show, even if it's blatantly condemned later. But in the show about rival riders, it remains the flaws of the characters, although it is obvious that they did not write themselves into the script. For example, when people don't like Daiji or Sakura, Revice gets scolded for it. At the same time, viewers can hate Keiva or Michinaga, but still enjoy Geats.
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07-08-2023, 05:13 AM | #583 |
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And this applies not only to the characters, but also to the show. For example, when Tsumuri suddenly becomes incredibly important at the end of Geats, this is taken as normal, although Tsukuyomi from Zi-O in white is scolded for the same. With the fact that the girl in white was given much more attention in her show.
Last edited by MKDremare; 07-08-2023 at 05:20 AM.. |
07-08-2023, 06:17 AM | #584 |
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How is Ace setting up Keiva to get a ninja buckle different from General Patton driving soldiers on a night attack through a minefield? And that's the problem with the whole show. It does not have the light that was in Ryuki, Fayze, Gaim, and even the Amazons. There is no one who will show that the world can be better.
I disagree that just because no-one on the show is some idealised hero, it somehoe lacks some intangible ill-defined "light" that means it's evil? The characters are flawed, yes, but they're not cackling villains. They're realistic, they fight for their own goals, and most of their issues come from the fact that they're often risking their lives for a future game show Squid Game style, and that's gonna fuck you up. Keiwa becoming a grief-stricken murderer? Damn, wonder why the kid who's done nothing but lose people fromhis very first DGP outing and constantly feels outclassed by everyone else might have a depressive episode from that.
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07-08-2023, 07:03 AM | #585 |
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You'd have a point if there hadn't been 30 odd episodes of character development since then of Ace learning he can have faith in Keiwa and Neon (and even, to a lesser extent, Michinaga) and of him turning from a relentless hunt for his mother into someone who is trying to make the world a better place. Michinaga and Keiwa literally signed up to be Riders again not for a prize, but to protect people frm the remaining Jyamato.
As well as the return of Keiwa and Michinaga to being riders is also quite consistent with their goals stated at the beginning. As long as there is Jamato, the world is not safe. As long as there is Jamato, there will be riders, at least one for sure. And yes, GPD brings out the worst in people, but I've also made clear why I don't think their positives outweigh the negatives. Because I would not want to have such people in real life. Because bad things happen and a person must be able to remain good in spite of them. And without philosophy and abstruse words, this show extols deceit, the main character is a deceiver. Cheating is bad, no one wants to be deceived and deceivers are bad people. There are exceptions, but most often this is the case. Yes, and even with exceptions: all sympathy for "noble" crooks ends when you yourself become their victim. As for Keiwa, he, of course, can be understood. He does what he thinks is right. But also his actions are not correct, which also needs to be understood. It's also not like anyone was trying to support him and keep him from breaking loose. Which is quite in the nature of the characters, but does not honor them, just as it takes away the right to be called his friends. "A friend in need will not leave" - isn't this the basics? Plus, if what happened to Keiwa was obvious to you, how could it be a surprise to someone with 2,000 years of experience? At a minimum, Ace definitely watched "Chirin no Suzu" in a previous life. Last edited by Mesnick; 07-08-2023 at 07:23 AM.. |
07-08-2023, 01:08 PM | #586 |
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I think going so far as to say Geats' main characters are bad people is a bit much, personally.
Flawed, yes. Bad, no. They're human beings put into a scenario where they can essentially get the one thing they've been wanting. Trying to get ahead of the competition is gonna bring out their more selfish sides and spotlight their flaws. Ace is a good person, but is egotistical. Neon is a good person, but can be selfish. Keiwa is a good person, but has a very black and white way of thinking. Even Michinaga is a good person, but he's prideful to a fault. They all show traits proving that while flawed, they're not evil or inherently bad. They're driven by their own personal lives and molded by their supporters in most cases. Beroba drives Michinaga to be more merciless because she loves suffering. Kekera drives Keiwa to be more vengeful because his ideal Kamen Rider isn't a white knight kind of person. Ziin drives Ace to be the protagonist who always wins because he doesn't want to see his fave lose. And Kyuun does what he can to drive Neon to be true to herself because he'd rather have her live happily than as someone she's not.
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07-08-2023, 02:28 PM | #587 |
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It's ironic how you asked if anyone would want to be friends, coworkers, or 'soldiers' with or trust anyone from Geats, while also bringing up how it doesn't have the 'light' of other seasons like 555.
I would most definitely not trust anyone from 555, especially with how badly they communicate with each other constantly. Also, the DGP isn't like a regular competition, either. It's a reality tv competition, like Survivor, Big Brother, or even a parody like Total Drama Island. All of which tend to encourage people to deceive and trick their fellow competitors, as long as they don't actually break any rules. Heck, the Scheme is just a game of Among Us, where one person assigned 'Impostor' (Desastar) and the participants have to figure out who among them is the Impostor or else they'll automatically win if they reach the final two, and the Impostor has to lie to avoid being kicked out. The DGP isn't like a sports competition, where yea, there are heavy penalties for cheating and lying. |
07-08-2023, 03:12 PM | #588 |
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It's ironic how you asked if anyone would want to be friends, coworkers, or 'soldiers' with or trust anyone from Geats, while also bringing up how it doesn't have the 'light' of other seasons like 555.
I would most definitely not trust anyone from 555, especially with how badly they communicate with each other constantly. As for the reality show aspect, this part for the players themselves lasted literally one game, Desastar. Under Girori, they seemed to be assured that they were saving the world from the invasion of monsters, and the prize was secondary. So conflicts between riders at an early stage were mainly imposed by the aggressive nature of Michinaga, and the "strategy of deception" was Ace's clear example as the most successful player. This is even noticeable, because as soon as Michinaga disappeared, teamwork immediately improved, although the very installation of the Desastar game implies more conflicts. Well, the presence of a dubious quality of personalities, like Dapan and Merry, did not help either, although in general it had little effect. So, although the DGP has had an effect, it is also not worth negating the impact of the personal shortcomings of the riders. Also, as far as I know, most of the participants in real reality shows are not exactly role models either. At least if they are remembered after the end of their show, then most often because of some bad deeds. Last edited by Mesnick; 07-08-2023 at 03:33 PM.. |
07-08-2023, 04:34 PM | #589 |
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Wouldn't trust either of them, Keitaro mostly because of the company he keeps around, and Takumi mostly because he's abrasive. Like yea they're not bad people, but I still wouldn't trust them too much because of the aforementioned abysmal communication skills all of them seem to have.
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07-09-2023, 09:23 AM | #590 |
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And this applies not only to the characters, but also to the show. For example, when Tsumuri suddenly becomes incredibly important at the end of Geats, this is taken as normal, although Tsukuyomi from Zi-O in white is scolded for the same. With the fact that the girl in white was given much more attention in her show.
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I would accept it if Ace really "give up" his wish for the sake of others. But the show didn't even have a variation on Zi-O's style, who refused to be king now because he didn't like the terms. Ace wished for a world where everyone can become happy, only after talking with his mother, to which he went for 2000 years. Not before, not instead. And he didn't ask for forgiveness, didn't say he was wrong. So this is not a change of dream, but the choice of a new one after achieving the previous one. As he believed that you need to fight for your desire, he thinks so. As he put his desire above others, he continues to do so. This can be seen from Ace continuing to call Tsumuri sister over her objections.
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I disagree that just because no-one on the show is some idealised hero, it somehoe lacks some intangible ill-defined "light" that means it's evil? The characters are flawed, yes, but they're not cackling villains. They're realistic, they fight for their own goals, and most of their issues come from the fact that they're often risking their lives for a future game show Squid Game style, and that's gonna fuck you up. Keiwa becoming a grief-stricken murderer? Damn, wonder why the kid who's done nothing but lose people fromhis very first DGP outing and constantly feels outclassed by everyone else might have a depressive episode from that.
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Besides, these Riders literally light up in the darkness. I would also have more faith in the main 5 of Geats than like 95% of the characters in Revice or Gaim. Even Ryuki had Shinji, Ren, Yui and Tezuka.
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