|
Community Links |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
|
Thread Tools |
02-06-2014, 03:52 PM | #191 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,527
|
Quote:
I did 4 years of play/screenwriting at NYU, so I'm with you to an extent. It's why I watch shows like KR and SS to begin with -- they rarely ask to be held to a high critical standard, so watching them is a well-deserved break for my typically overtaxed critical faculties. But... when a show screams out, "take me seriously," I can't help but respond in kind. Mikazuki wants to be taken seriously. It's pitch is essentially, "tokusatsu done right, for grown ups." As a consequence, I apply the critical eye I usually withhold from Super Sentai and Kamen Rider. The results were... not in Mikazuki's favor. |
02-06-2014, 03:57 PM | #192 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
|
I dunno. I kinda feel like you're missing the point. It's a show where the opening episode involves a dinosaur watermelon. I'm pretty sure the one thing the show doesn't want to be taken, is seriously. There is obviously still your typical melodrama, but this isn't GARO. It's a show about a man on a soundstage kicking over cardboard buildings. I HATE tokusatsu giant stuff with a passion, but I love this show because it still manages to be so fun.
__________________
|
02-06-2014, 04:42 PM | #193 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,527
|
Quote:
I dunno. I kinda feel like you're missing the point. It's a show where the opening episode involves a dinosaur watermelon. I'm pretty sure the one thing the show doesn't want to be taken, is seriously. There is obviously still your typical melodrama, but this isn't GARO. It's a show about a man on a soundstage kicking over cardboard buildings. I HATE tokusatsu giant stuff with a passion, but I love this show because it still manages to be so fun.
Maybe "serious" isn't the best word. It's certainly not a serious show. But it does present itself as elevated above the standard Toku fare, and it invites you to engage with it on a more sophisticated level than SS or KR. When it fails, it naturally invites more sophisticated criticism. |
02-06-2014, 04:46 PM | #194 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
|
Quote:
I'm missing something, that's for sure.
Maybe "serious" isn't the best word. It's certainly not a serious show. But it does present itself as elevated above the standard Toku fare, and it invites you to engage with it on a more sophisticated level than SS or KR. When it fails, it naturally invites more sophisticated criticism. It's a show about giant robots, that parodies Ultraman, Sentai and Kamen Rider in the same breath. I don't get where you're getting this arrogance from in the show. It just plays around and revels in toku silliness.
__________________
|
02-06-2014, 05:28 PM | #195 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,527
|
Quote:
Maybe it's the budget. Even if it looks cheap, it's still the highest budgeted TV show in Japan up to that point. Maybe it's the format. It's an hour long show, so it naturally attempts at having a more complex story. Maybe it's the target audience. The show aired in prime time and was targeted to adult fans of the genre. Maybe it's the reputation of the creators. Both of whom are famous for presenting "adult, gritty" takes on juvenile genres. Maybe it's the incorporation of Asian religious iconography. Maybe its the depiction of hallucinogenic-drug-inspired psychedelia. Maybe its the intensity of the violence. Maybe it's a combination of all of the above that makes me think it's aiming to be more sophisticated than its counterparts. After reading through this, I'll admit -- It's certainly possible my disappointment is a question of expectations bred from the above listed elements not being met, as opposed to the show actually being bad. It's possible these elements are confusing my viewing of the show -- that these sophistication-signifiers are interfering with the creators' intent. But I'm dubious. And maybe I watched it wrong (if such a thing is possible), but I don't see it as a parody. A parody invites you to laugh at the events depicted -- it's farcical, and it is inherently cynical. I see this show as being borne from a deep, genuine, borderline-maudlin love for the genre that is most definitely not cynical. It wants you to laugh with it, not laugh at it. I'll agree it's an homage, one that revels in silliness, but I didn't get parody at all. And maybe that's part of the problem -- if it were a parody, I'd at least get what it was going for. The way it is, though... there's too much playing around and not enough meaning. Last edited by Kamen Rider Lucha; 02-06-2014 at 05:42 PM.. |
02-06-2014, 05:41 PM | #196 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
|
"Maybe it's the incorporation of Asian religious iconography. Maybe its the depiction of hallucinogenic-drug-inspired psychedelia. Maybe its the intensity of the violence. "
Huh? Have you actually watched this show? I like you bro, but your arguments are shitty. You can't judge a show you haven't actually seen, and make wild statements that aren't true. You ESPECIALLY can't hate a show for its budget or what other works were made by its creators. Especially considering GARO is probably the best toku show ever made. And then at the end, what ARE you arguing? One second you say it's too complex, the next you say it isn't complex enough. It's like you want to hate the show, before actually watching the show.
__________________
|
02-06-2014, 05:47 PM | #197 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,527
|
Quote:
"Maybe it's the incorporation of Asian religious iconography. Maybe its the depiction of hallucinogenic-drug-inspired psychedelia. Maybe its the intensity of the violence. "
Huh? Have you actually watched this show? I like you bro, but your arguments are shitty. You can't judge a show you haven't actually seen, and make wild statements that aren't true. You ESPECIALLY can't hate a show for its budget or what other works were made by its creators. Especially considering GARO is probably the best toku show ever made. And then at the end, what ARE you arguing? One second you say it's too complex, the next you say it isn't complex enough. It's like you want to hate the show, before actually watching the show. And I've never said the story is too complex or not complex enough. I've said that the characters are too thinly conceived. Story is a different beast entirely. I bring up complexity because complexity tends to go hand-in-hand with a story's sophistication level. I'm arguing that based on a number of elements, this show is attempting to be more sophisticated than your average toku show. As such, it opens itself up to more sophisticated criticisms than SS or KR or Ultra or Godzilla. And that normally, the elements that turn me off wouldn't turn me off were the show not presented in this more sophisticated/for-adults package. Last edited by Kamen Rider Lucha; 02-06-2014 at 05:51 PM.. |
02-06-2014, 05:50 PM | #198 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
|
Nope. You've barely scratched the surface of the plot, yet. The first half of the show is pretty much just a long piece of introduction, with the show really starting in the fourth episode. Your idea of what the show is, is wrong, because you won't know what the show is until the second half of the show.
The character focus is pretty weak, and the cast is much too large, especially when the truth behind the plot is revealed and you learn that it was never really about them.
__________________
|
02-06-2014, 06:54 PM | #199 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,527
|
Quote:
Nope. You've barely scratched the surface of the plot, yet. The first half of the show is pretty much just a long piece of introduction, with the show really starting in the fourth episode. Your idea of what the show is, is wrong, because you won't know what the show is until the second half of the show.
The character focus is pretty weak, and the cast is much too large, especially when the truth behind the plot is revealed and you learn that it was never really about them. When you asked, "when???" in response to my assertion that the show aims to be more sophisticated than other Toku, I gave what I thought were pretty good reasons (which you think are shitty, and that's fair). I still think those reasons are good (esp the religious/psychedelic/violence ones -- at least as far as episode one is concerned. Those are certainly signifiers of a sophisticated story). And I'm not saying that everyone does or should respond to these signifiers by applying a more strenuous level of criticism -- just that I do. And because that's how I react, this show is subject to criticisms I wouldn't levy against other, perhaps worse, shows in the same genre. I'd just like to clarify an earlier comment. For the sake of my argument, complexity and sophistication aren't the same thing. A thing can be needlessly complex and still lack sophistication. A thing can be elegantly simple and ooze sophistication. I believe that people who create complex plots often think that a complex plot, on it's own, is an indication of sophistication. So the existence of a complex plot often suggests that the creator's intent is sophistication. I hope that makes sense. To address one point you've made: Regarding not judging something based on a creator's past work, I think that's an admirable ideal to strive for. But I'm not sure that's actually possible because no work exists in a vacuum, especially not in our hyperconnect world. A creator's attachment, whether rightly or wrongly, breeds expectations. Those expectations color one's interpretation of the work. We can strive to limit the extent to which they do, but if a creator is known for sophisticated, adult-oriented work, I think it's a natural tendency to engage all work by that creator in a similar way. Last edited by Kamen Rider Lucha; 02-06-2014 at 06:56 PM.. |
02-06-2014, 06:58 PM | #200 |
Big Bad Wolf.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Raiding tombs.
Posts: 9,529
|
Well there wasn't extreme violence, religious iconography or psychedelics in the first episode, let alone the later ones. it's just baffling, because I literally have no idea what you're talking about, it's like you watched an entirely different show.
__________________
|
|
TokuNation News & Rumors |
SH Figuarts BoonBoomger Red |
Hasbro Licenses Power Rangers Toys to Playmates Toys |
Discotek Media Licenses Mobile Cop Jiban |
What's going on with CSM? |
Ultraman Arc Trailer |
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:59 PM.
|