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04-20-2021, 08:46 AM | #831 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Funnily enough, I got the EXACT opposite to this opinion. If anything, Kiva BARELY promotes its own toys. The form changes only have a handful of appearances, with the relevant items being featured more as characters rather than plot coupons, the secondary almost never uses the shows main gimmick even though he can, plus his belt spends half its screen time doing something the toy CANNOT do and whenever the show brings in a super form, the regular form stops appearing soon after.
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04-20-2021, 10:01 PM | #832 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
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As I always say, Kiva has its flaws, but the ending songs are all GOAT
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04-21-2021, 09:12 AM | #833 |
Standing By
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Supernova easily makes my top 5 KR insert themes!
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04-21-2021, 12:16 PM | #834 |
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Kiva has great tracks tbh.
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04-22-2021, 11:39 PM | #835 |
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I also somewhat feel guilt for that crossed out joke and spacing out (especially that I got actually ostracized for it, been dealing with my self-esteem for this place for a while), though the "joke" intended to give tolerance for something wrong. But now I'm going again, sorry if this is to everyone's dismay.
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KAMEN RIDER DEN-O EPISODE 49 - “THE CLIMAX GOES ON, NO MATTER WHAT”
The plot machinations, the Time Nonsense, it’s whatever. I’ll talk more about its strengths and weaknesses tomorrow in the Series Wrap-Up post (which feels like it’s going to be massive; lot of topics to cover), but for this episode, it existed mostly to be a thing to defeat. Like most of the junction point stuff, the Hana reveal is one that feels right while falling apart the second you try and explain it. She’s the safety net that keeps Kai from winning long enough for the heroes to defeat him. It’s difficult to parse and full of underexplained elements (there was a timeline once where Hana was raised by her parents but Sakurai erased her memory of it, I guess?), and it all shows up way later than you’d like, but it’s fine. It’s just there to allow for a victory condition. It’s not the point of any of this. The point is about friendship, and memories, and how even when a TV show ends, it gets to live on forever in our memories. Quote:
The second half of this episode was probably the absolute best way this show was ever going to end. It’s not my favorite series ending or anything (Faiz or Blade, maybe Fourze?), but it’s the best version of this show’s unflinching sadness and boundless optimism.
Having the Imagin just disappear after Kai’s defeated is heartbreaking. No tearful goodbyes or supportive morals, they’re just gone. It’s impossible not to feel shocked by that, to not have that visceral stab of loss push you to tears. All these characters you spent a series with, and that’s it. Gone. Ryotaro’s grief was just a mirror of what I was going through. Like Yuuto, I’d’ve eaten a thousand bowls of (gross) mushrooms to honor Deneb’s passing. It’s incredibly effective as tragedy. Quote:
And then the reveal that, no, of course all of these heroic imagination monsters from the end of time aren’t gone. They wanted to wait a beat, then surprise their friends, but now the moment has gone on a little long and oh no they are crying really hard and it feels bad and uh oh this joke is going to feel a little cruel now and uh he’s still crying and now Hana’s crying too and Sieg’s realizing that Ryotaro didn’t even mourn him like the rest and they’re all being a little too loud and the jig is definitely up because Ryotaro is looking this way hi I’ve arrived ha ha whoops.
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The whole point of this series is that even when things end, as they inevitably do, they never really end as long as we remember them. It’s a lesson that’s important for kids, who are going to gain and lose friends rapidly over their adolescence, but it’s one we could all stand to consider more often. Our memories are our strength, and they testify to our convictions. People change and grow, but there’s a part of all of those relationships that we’ll carry around forever. It’s not a loss when someone’s not around, because they’re always around as long as we remember them. The past should always give us strength, you know?
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-There’s a moment where Kai just does a two-second scream of frustration, out of nowhere, and it’s a great piece of acting. It’s not a huge close-up or a dramatic wide-shot. He’s just got this scream of frustration in him that he needs to get out, and it really helped center him in one of his final scenes.
Yes, the final fight is choreographed rather well in my standards. All the Imagins getting a turn to show off their powers, either as Den-O or as themselves, like Kintaros' smash with a huge concrete piece, or Den-O Rod Form's long range. The final finisher on Death Imagin, that's in Sword Form, but it has the rainbow energy the Climax Form has... so that would put it on Climax Form level?
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04-23-2021, 09:34 AM | #836 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I also somewhat feel guilt for that crossed out joke and spacing out (especially that I got actually ostracized for it, been dealing with my self-esteem for this place for a while), though the "joke" intended to give tolerance for something wrong. But now I'm going again, sorry if this is to everyone's dismay.
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Well, if you refer to only the Imagins that is accompanying Ryotaro, as I've used before, they're refered as "Taros Imagins". I dunno which one do you refer here, only the Taros or just the Imagin as a whole. The Imagins (other than Taros) just disappearing, though dunno if it's right to celebrate this moment as a triumph, but it's the world finally being free from the threats of Imagins, with them disappearing. It's the no monsters left anymore some Rider stuffs have.
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It's also an ending that's more about emotion than plot, so it can easily coast by on the warmth it generates. Am I giving it a pass? Okay, maybe! Quote:
Yes, the final fight is choreographed rather well in my standards. All the Imagins getting a turn to show off their powers, either as Den-O or as themselves, like Kintaros' smash with a huge concrete piece, or Den-O Rod Form's long range. The final finisher on Death Imagin, that's in Sword Form, but it has the rainbow energy the Climax Form has... so that would put it on Climax Form level?
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04-27-2021, 01:52 PM | #837 |
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Nobody wants you to leave. I mean, I definitely don't want you to leave. It's just, sometimes a joke is unhelpful, or inconsiderate, and that's something you need to understand. Generally all it takes is a quick apology, and everyone moves on. As long as it's not something that gets repeated, I'm not going to hold it against you. Welcome back!
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KAMEN RIDER DEN-O - SERIES WRAP UP
Den-O is a very much a series about how we live with ourselves. There are other people in Ryotaro’s life, and he cares for them, but the series is focused with laser-like precision on his (and, separately, Yuuto’s) journey towards self-actualization. It’s about Ryotaro controlling the various aspects of himself, illustrated by the Imagin, and coming out the other side a hero. It’s about memories, and how we should try to draw strength from even the worst of them. It’s about the trap of nostalgia, and the danger of ignoring the present. It’s about the future as a thing that we’re working towards, not a place that’s waiting for us. All of that is an internal journey, a process we each have to navigate in our hearts and minds. It’s kind of amazing, for a show almost defined by its phenomenal ensemble, that it ends up being a story about the hard work we end up doing in secret. Quote:
I get why folks who watched the show already are, at a minimum, able to look past the series-arc to see the astonishingly good character work. There’s a ton about the story that only makes sense in retrospect. Almost all of the context for everything that’s happening gets explained in the final six episodes. (If then!) Once you know what Sakurai’s up to and how Yuuto fits in and why Hana’s alone, it just becomes pleasant background noise. Wallpaper to occasionally acknowledge while you laugh along with your multi-colored monster friends.
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Ryotaro somehow makes the most soft-spoken, unassertive character in Kamen Rider history feel believable as an apocalypse-averting hero. He never really becomes the type of hero who’d carry the world on his shoulders, and that’s for the best. So much of Ryotaro’s story is about letting other people fight their own battles, and it’s nice that the show honors that version of heroism. He’s a hero who never wanted to be a fighter, and he saved the day by remembering the things he cared about. I’ve never watched a superhero show with that sort of character at the center. Ryotaro is the beating heart of this show.
Ryotaro may have constant bad luck and was a dropout, but he still had the wish-fulfillment aspect that he's one of the most important person in the show as a Singularity Point and goes on adventures with an ever-increasing group of friends. One thing that I find Ryotaro different from pure hero archetype is that Ryotaro is really against sacrifices, where people usually glorify heroic sacrifices and even going on wrong conclusion that “self sacrifice alone makes one 100% heroic, irrespective of any amoral or unheroic things that one also did”. Quote:
Momotaros! Why would you ever not put Momotaros in other projects! Momo was the first Den-O character I ever met, in an Ex-Aid film, and I get why he was worth bringing back on his own. He’s the other half of Den-O, really. Similar to what we’d get a few years later with W, these two characters are, collectively, a superhero. Momo brings the energy, the danger, the humor, the boldness. It’s right that the biggest, best scenes in Ryotaro’s story are with Momo. The story of them valuing each other’s contributions, of them carving out a partnership from happenstance, it’s easily worth sitting through the worst of the series-arc stuff. Momo is the beating heart of this show.
Like you said about KR's appeal being helping people psychologically, society without monsters, like real world, is already full of many ppl who need healing, care, love, compassion and help (doesn't mean you can excuse people's bad action due to having plausible reasons for it!). Claiming saving people as the only thing about heroism is using the definition too broad, and that aspect of heroism Ryotaro has can't be diminished or overlooked, though I feel Ryotaro being overshadowed by Momo or other Taros Imagins speaks about people having that mindset... Quote:
I’d have to dig all the way back in this thread to know for sure, but I’d bet I was dismissive of Airi when she first appeared. She comes off as one ingredient too many; an anchor for a show that’s sprinting away from Kamen Rider tropes. She’s the sibling who runs a coffee shop. Who cares? Well, me, a lot, as it turns out. Airi is the innocence the show is trying to protect, and the world-weariness that comes with that protection. She’s someone who has sacrificed so much to create a future for people she can’t even remember. She’s heroism as infinite empathy, the ability to care about people you’ve never met for reasons no greater than because everyone deserves to be cared about. Airi is the beating heart of this show.
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Yuuto and Deneb are an unstoppable pair. Comedic to an enviable extreme (I could watch an entire series of Yuuto being so embarrassed by Deneb that they wrestle), and a brilliant look at the comfort of a moment. Deneb doesn’t exist beyond the boundaries of his service to Yuuto, and Yuuto isn’t remembered by the world he’s been saving. All they have is one another, and that’s shown to be an incredibly precious thing. It’s not some half-life either one of them is living, but a joyous trip through time, friends forever, always now. Yuuto and Deneb are the beating heart of this show.
The two main forms used by Zeronos are called Altair and Vega, and Vega specifically is accessed by cards tied to Sakurai (Yuto's produce Zero Form instead). The names are also the stars associated with "The Weaver and the Cowherd," one of the most famous sets of Star-Crossed Lovers in folklore, and underlines the impossibility of the original Sakurai ever returning. Quote:
The other DenLiner Imagin, any one of them could’ve taken Momo’s place without this show being anything less than watchable. Ura’s scheming gave way to a keen mind that wanted to protect his more gullible friends. Kin’s steadfast guardianship kept every other lunatic from literally pushing the train off the tracks. Sieg’s nascent view of family was as unexpected as it was heartwarming. And Ryuta’s childlike rambunctiousness transitioned, through the tough lessons of community that come with growing up, into something approaching teamwork. Those Imagin were the beating heart of this show.
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Hana… boy, a hard character to praise. Recasting the actor consigned the character to also-ran status, as useful to the storytelling as Naomi or Owner. She served a function, but they never really told a story about her character after the recasting. Even at the end, when her secret origin is revealed, it’s just a weapon Ryotaro uses against Kai. Hana doesn’t say it, and we never get her reaction to it. There’s a ton of potential in her character, and some fantastic emotional beats in the early going (I’ll probably remember her reaction to Kin’s sacrifice from the early days of the show long after I’ve forgotten the rest of her contributions) (I mean, that hostage story is pretty choice, too), but there’s no real arc to her story. She wasn’t the beating heart of this story, unfortunately.
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The second half of this series wasn’t so much for me. It was more about junction points and Sakurai and Time Nonsense, and I didn’t give a shit. See above, you know?
But, man, all them little stories in the first half. Loved them. I loved the little lives that needed to be saved, the micro-traumas to be resolved, the hopes renewed. That was when the show was unbeatable. The loss of those stories, or the space to tell those stories, that’s my biggest disappointment over how Den-O turned out. For me, the series peaked with that Shouko story. 41 and 42 are, in my mind, the finale of the show. It’s the absolute pinnacle of what this show did well. There’s this little story about valuing the present instead of regretting the past or hoping for the future, with a character I believe in, and some heroes who need to learn that lesson. It’s more powerful to me than a hundred Imagin bringing about Armageddon. It’s the last moment I felt fully invested in this show. Everything afterwards felt compromised, like I was sifting through dirt to find flecks of gold. But when this show wanted to tell a human story in a world of imagination monsters from the end of time, it was electric. Quote:
Despite mostly not feeling too great about the second half, and having basically negative patience for Time Nonsense, Kai is maybe my favorite endgame villain in Kamen Rider. Like, full-stop.
I think, and I’m honestly not joking about this, it’s because he also doesn’t feel too great about the second half of Den-O, and he also has basically negative patience for Time Nonsense. For a show full of half-explained mysteries that the series cannot stop obsessing over, here’s Kai explaining his origin and motivation: That’s it! And it’s perfect! He doesn’t give a single shit about explaining himself or threatening our heroes. He’s just doing some dumb job he doesn’t care about, and he’s okay with you knowing that. His body language is always bored. His schemes are repetitive, because why bother trying to be clever. He’s this show’s combination of fascination with and ambivalence for an endgame, but as a tall and lanky boy. He’s fully committed to a thing he can’t muster much enthusiasm for, and he’s okay just blowing it all up at a certain point. He’s the best villain that a show that resolutely did not need a villain could have.
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04-27-2021, 09:37 PM | #838 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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A lot to think about there, DreadBringer! Thanks for the feedback and opinions!
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07-22-2021, 03:57 PM | #839 |
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FAREWELL KAMEN RIDER DEN-O: FINAL COUNTDOWN
Hey, kids! Meet the brand-new Den-O in this film about how prolonging something past its natural end is at best exhausting, and at worst a kind of living death! Weird movie! Weird movie. It's trying to do three different things, all at various levels of effectiveness. It's trying to send off Ryotaro, introduce Kotaro, and provide a template for an infinitely flexible/refreshable Den-O franchise. I don't think there's any part it explicitly fails at, but the tension of those three objectives make for some rough sledding, especially in the first half hour. Like, I'm trying to think of a Kamen Rider I instantly disliked more than Kotaro, and I'm coming up empty. I mean, I've hated some characters more eventually, but very few have I hated as much on their debut. Having Kotaro show up as the new Den-O and basically go Old Den-O Stuff Sucks for twenty straight minutes of the goddamn Farewell To Ryotaro movie... bold choice! Not, uh, not the one I would've made, but it definitely provides an arc for Kotaro's character. He gets there by the end, maybe. It's a fairly standard arc, where an overly-confident hero is humbled by a loss and works with the people he formerly shunned in order to achieve victory. The actor tries, anyway. It's just too difficult to feel invested in a guy who just showed up, told everyone they suck, ate shit, and then got a pity invite to their big celebration. Kotaro starts as an interloper and ends as an outsider, which is largely a function of the plot, but the character has enough unrealized potential that I'll try not to hold this introductory story against him. It's... that's sort of the big problem this movie has, and it's the same one that occasionally held back the series, in my opinion. There's incredibly fun character stuff happening, and some very charming actors, but there's always this top-down plot stuff that keeps it from being the fun hang-out story it clearly wants to be. Kotaro showing up is plot stuff, something outside the group that derails (sorry) the real fun of this movie, which is all of the Imagin hanging out and being ridiculous. Kotaro is the Sakurai nonsense that always threatened to put the brakes on the comedy and drama that could develop out of the characters. There's plenty to build a movie around from just the characters we're already invested in. Having Kotaro show up and stop the fun dead so we can try and address his mysteries and traumas (spoiler: they are not at all worth the effort), it starts and ends this movie in a zone that devalues the characters and tone we all love from Den-O; it feels like work. But the middle section of this movie is the best. It's exactly what I'd've hoped for in a new Den-O movie. As soon as the Imagin get to Edo period Japan, this thing found its rhythm. It's all about friction and teamwork and excitable monsters and bad planning and a weird but hard-fought belief that if they all work together, anything is possible. There's a bit where Momo enters their hideout, sees Sieg, and immediately goes Nope that killed me. When these characters and their richly-defined relationships get to just sprawl out, it's perfect. This was a series that always succeeded when it focused on character, so a middle section that's just about the Den-Liner crew (plus Deneb and Sieg, because Kobayashi loves us) working together to free Ryotaro from the villain's grasp while also saving all of time from destruction? That part is so good, and so right, that it's weird how much of this film isn't that. It all just comes back to the plot, and how it feels something that's being done to the characters, not anything growing out of them. There's a monster, and that monster wants to use Ryotaro to destroy Ryotaro's ancestors (which would invert the singularity point for reasons that just killing his ancestors wouldn't Because, so that's why Ryotaro has to get possessed), and Kotaro gets brought to the present to help Because, and it's all just things the characters react to without being terribly invested in. Well, Momo's invested in freeing Ryotaro, and that... I think it's a story that works better thematically than it does narratively. Like, Ryotaro being possessed for more than half of his final story sucks. That's a frustrating choice, no matter how cathartic it is to see that Ore Sanjou moment eventually. It's a story that doesn't really have any room to end Ryotaro's story, so it mostly just doesn't? I honest-to-god had to double-check the wiki to make sure this was Ryotaro's last Den-O story (before his Heisei Generations return), because nothing in this story really feels like Ryotaro's story is done. There's no reason for him not to be in future Den-O stories, other than it would be creatively bankrupt and utterly mercenary. Ryotaro's story is over, and we just need to be okay with that, I guess. I liked that part of this movie the best, how the villain's plot is to force someone he loves to live forever because of his selfishness and inability to accept an ending. I like that Kobayashi wrote a Den-O story that's both a roadmap for how to do Den-O stories without Ryotaro - focus on the Imagin and just plug some bland new handsome dude into the hero role - while also critiquing the need to extend Den-O indefinitely. There's an ambivalence about this movie that's both depressing and exhilarating, a bummed-out feeling that the creators would rather acknowledge and confront than ignore and forget. I get the feeling that no one involved in replacing Ryotaro was convinced it was a good idea, but they're trying it anyway. That all made for a movie that ended better than it started, but still not one I ever fully got onboard with conceptually. Some of it was the distracting thought of The Story I Wished They'd Told (like, just make Yuuto the new Den-O, problem solved), but a lot of it was just how weirdly inessential and unnecessary this whole story was. It's Shiro's thing with Sora, but as a superhero franchise designed to sell toys to Japanese children. Den-O was fun, and it ended, and now its corpse is trotted out to try to reignite the same devotion it once effortlessly generated. Ryotaro seems checked out, Airi and the Airimirers are there when they don't need to be (I love how they 100% did not have the Milk Dipper set anymore), and whatever fun there is (and there's fun!) comes with an echo of how Den-O needs to be put away. Sora's sadness was never that she wanted to live again. Her sadness was that extending her life devalued it, and she'd rather be honest about that. It's hard to say goodbye to something you love, but it's maybe harder to be refused the chance to say goodbye at all. THE BAGGAGE CAR -I'm glad to be back watching Den-O, finding a way to make a crowd-pleasing bit of fan-service sound like a hollowed-out and dispiriting endeavor! I did enjoy the middle section of this movie, for what it's worth. Sieg is an all-star in this movie (there's a bit where he does his catchphrase, then everyone else does their catchphrase, and then the camera lands back on him to say I Already Did Mine, and it's the smartest joke in maybe all of the movie), Hana's great, all of the stuff where the Imagin are roommates was so agreeable that I don't even care if it's not pushing the narrative forward. Let me hang out with these dopes forever, even if it's making them miserable. I will be Shiro in that scenario, happily. -I like the new Den-O suit, too. I've seen it before, in the OOO movie. I like the blue and silver, the way the wings look like scaffolding. It comes across as a suit that's literally building on its predecessor, you know? -Not as crazy about the villain suit! (Super glad for that ol' Heisei Phase 1 thing of Oops We Forgot To Ever Say The Evil Rider Name Out Loud, incidentally.) It's just a Gaoh repaint, and I don't get the thing with the tops? I always figure stuff like that is some cultural thing I don't have a reference for. Either way, not that memorable. -This was just a quick check-in on Den-O! I'll be PMing Decade contributors over the next few days to get that train rolling (not sorry), and then I'll be back in this thread after Decade's done to see if the further adventures of Kotaro feel any more vital or necessary. I hope so! I always hope so! -Not that I want to keep shitting on a movie that really doesn't deserve this level of criticism, but I really like how this movie comes across as almost an indictment of drawing strength from memories, the core thesis of the TV series. Sora's request, at the end, is to be forgotten, since being remembered forever by Shiro is a trap. It's this movie sort of saying that it's cool to love Den-O as a TV show, but please stop loving Den-O so much that they aren't allowed to stop making it. I love this movie's ambivalence about its own existence!
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07-22-2021, 05:03 PM | #840 |
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So I didn’t really put together a detailed credits for the Imagin in this movie, but I have seen all of this movie’s new VAs elsewhere.
The one who possesses Ryotaro to make Skull Form is voiced by Hiroshi Kamiya, who hosts a radio show with Ryuta’s VA Kenichi Suzumura. His main Toku role is, suitably, another goofy purple dragon, Uchuu Sentai Kyuranger’s Shou Ronpo/Ryu Violet/Ryu Commander. The voice of Teddy is Daisuke Gori, who’s other major credit I know him from is the narrator for Ultraman Taiga (and the singer for the movie theme for that series) And one of our background extras is Tomokazu Sugita, on a break from telling people to “Wake Up”. He also portrayed Demushu on Gaim, the titular character (and his evil counterpart Dark Lugiel) in Ultraman Ginga, Kamen Rider Ginga in Zi-O and the narrator, equipment voice and voice of King/Mashin Oladdin in Kiramager. He’s also a major otaku. In terms of opinions - it was nice to see all the Den-O forms fighting side by side (since that normally only happens in Final Stages that don’t have a lot of Riders in the main show) and the Edo setting makes for a unique backdrop. But yeah, I can totally get this not being a great intro to Kotaro (even though my formal intro was the Den-O/Decade movie). The most I remember about him is a) his countdowns and b) he got a CSM before regular Den-O (which reveals what each of his other three buttons do). |
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