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09-01-2020, 06:21 PM | #71 |
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I mean, even if this isn't a deliberate reference to BLM (and it very well could be, since the movement has gotten global attention), the concept of systematic oppression is a fairly universal one and every major country has dealt or is dealing with it in some shape or form.
For me as a black man, the writing regarding the Humagears felt really close to home. The idea of Humagears being intended to serve their masters, only for Humagears like Jin to seek out liberation and freedom. The idea of somebody like Gai using his power and influence to create widespread panic regarding Humagears. The idea of a police force of sorts being used to hunt them. Ultimately, this topic is a little too heavy for me to want to fully discuss on this board and the comparisons aren't exactly 1-for-1 but it definitely makes sense if what's going on over here in the states was the inspiration for at least certain aspects of Zero-One's story.
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Last edited by MaskedRiderAsakura; 09-01-2020 at 06:38 PM.. |
09-01-2020, 09:17 PM | #72 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 210
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Quote:
I mean, even if this isn't a deliberate reference to BLM (and it very well could be, since the movement has gotten global attention), the concept of systematic oppression is a fairly universal one and every major country has dealt or is dealing with it in some shape or form.
For me as a black man, the writing regarding the Humagears felt really close to home. The idea of Humagears being intended to serve their masters, only for Humagears like Jin to seek out liberation and freedom. The idea of somebody like Gai using his power and influence to create widespread panic regarding Humagears. The idea of a police force of sorts being used to hunt them. Ultimately, this topic is a little too heavy for me to want to fully discuss on this board and the comparisons aren't exactly 1-for-1 but it definitely makes sense if what's going on over here in the states was the inspiration for at least certain aspects of Zero-One's story. It is literally about slavery. Slaves are manual labor and contributed to the economic progress of the nation that brought them in. Humagear are constantly referenced as tools, and when set beside a human career professional, threatens their identity and livelihood and causes the human to freak out. Humagear was first and foremost, designed to support humanity in tasks. So their struggle to find a "dream" something that they decide for themselves, unlike a task designated for them, is what that Singularity represents. A rebirth from souless machine to a human-like existence. |
09-02-2020, 11:19 PM | #73 |
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Location: Oregon
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Finally watched the episode a second time, now subbed. Loved it this time, fully understanding what was going on. Two attractive young men beating the shit out of each other while shouting about their feelings really is the core of modern Kamen Rider. The epilogue stuff with the new Izu could be viewed as a bit questionable though, depending on whether you view the new Izu as an amnesia situation or as a fully new person being told to be someone else instead of finding their own self
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09-03-2020, 11:52 PM | #74 |
I'm an agile cat.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,020
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Quote:
It's slavery.
It is literally about slavery. Slaves are manual labor and contributed to the economic progress of the nation that brought them in. Humagear are constantly referenced as tools, and when set beside a human career professional, threatens their identity and livelihood and causes the human to freak out. Humagear was first and foremost, designed to support humanity in tasks. So their struggle to find a "dream" something that they decide for themselves, unlike a task designated for them, is what that Singularity represents. A rebirth from souless machine to a human-like existence. The repercussions of AI and what constitutes life and sapience as we define it are questions asked in virtually any media featuring AI. Zero-One is doing literally nothing different here. The idea that AI would replace us, rendering us "obsolete" is not only incredibly common but a real result of progress in our world, with several jobs being filled by automation rather than people. This is not new or even rare. It's a thought experiment posed by numerous fictional works over time, and Zero-One is arguably one of the least profound. If anything it's only unique take is the idea that the rise of machines to humanity's equal/superior is a good thing, where it's usually seen as either foreboding or at best neutral and cautionary. |
09-04-2020, 08:07 AM | #75 |
Suprise Gamma Future
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,852
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And yet many scholars have drawn parallels between I, Robot and slavery.
It's not new because when viewed from the margins of humanity and indeed a longitudinal timeline, slavery has been a characteristic of humanity for longer than it hasn't.
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09-04-2020, 08:17 AM | #76 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Zero-One was also extremely explicit about treating humagears as actual people — Fuwa, Yaiba and supposedly Gai had arcs about coming round to that; as well as many minor characters and the public in general. There’s multiple scenes since Gai’s ownership of AIMs showing Humagears getting attacked by them for going outside their designated roles, all of which is franed as a bad thing. And while a pathetic joke of a scene that went absolutely nowhere, there was a friggin’ rights protest right at the end!
We’re not talking about advanced self checkouts here. The moment you show advanced robots as close to or even equivalent to humans, which Zero One constantly does through Singularity, Soreo flashbacks, MBJR etc., you invoke themes however minor or major of inequality and slavery and oppression. This is ultimately why the season failed for me because it all but abandoned these themes in every aspect but token scenes in the last third to focus on Aruto and the Ark being, like, angry or something; but this stuff was hardly subtext. In just about every episode of the week the show was practically screaming at you that Humagears were essentially people and they deserved to be treated as such, or at least that their current standing should be heavily questioned.
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09-04-2020, 08:37 AM | #77 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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Sad thing is that despite the show itself clearly wanting you to side with Aruto in his belief that 'humagears and humans are the same!', it uh.... kinda really doesn't treat them as such? The humagears' well-being are definitely not treated as important as humans. They get destroyed all the time, and there's barely any weight to it not just because it's so frequent, but because the show then just has them brought back perfectly fine later. (And sometimes they don't even bother bringing them back! It's just 'oh they blew up, time to move on'.)
I remember early on, there was maybe an unspoken implication that the humagears brought back are just 'copies' and that the originals had been 'killed' but they kinda drop that eventually and make it clear Izu and her brother are the only exception to that. Actually, and this is a side-tangent at this point, that kinda adds to what I don't like about what happened with Izu at the end of the finale. I've seen people spin it as this is simply that Izu lost her memories, and obviously the show is going by that interpretation too, but the entire endgame scenario kinda relies on you treating her death as, well, a death. If she was going to come back from that, it needed to feel like a miracle, not 'welp, time to get a new secretary at the workshop'. Last edited by FreshToku; 09-04-2020 at 08:46 AM.. |
09-04-2020, 11:30 AM | #78 |
Suprise Gamma Future
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,852
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But its not about Humagears and Humans being the same. It is the recognition that both have unique qualities both positive and negative, and most importantly a place in society.
The notion that Humagears are "less" than Humans on the basis that humans created them is pure narcissism. If you don't understand that, think about any time you as a child disagreed with your mother about something. She brought you into the world, but it's not fair for that to be held over your head for eternity is it? In the show, The fragility of human life was, as you correctly intuited, used as a way to diminish the worth a humagear's life (because hey you could just bring them back), but the show argues that that doesn't diminish the impact Humagears could have on others and the things they could create (entertainment, fine art, music, etc). Being able to be brought back as a duplicate - To a Human, it cheapens life, which somehow discredits Humagear accomplishments. - To a Humagear it is just a way of life, even seen as an advantage over humans. The endgame scenario doesn't rely on us treating her death as a human death, it relies on us believing that Aruto treats her death as a human death. For all intents and purposes she was dead to him.
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09-04-2020, 12:31 PM | #79 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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I think it's wonderful we can even be having this conversation right now. Like, just the fact that there's even this much to talk about, that's a real victory for Zero-One, even if the discussion itself doesn't always paint the show's execution in the best light.
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09-04-2020, 03:01 PM | #80 |
Suprise Gamma Future
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,852
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To further the connection, and yes I am aware we are far far removed from the source material at this point, the originator of the modern term robot was a Czech play called RUR. It was a Russian allegory for the oppression of the working class, so slavery is pretty baked into the genre of robot/androids/AI etc.
From the Wikipedia entry: The play introduced the word robot, which displaced older words such as "automaton" or "android" in languages around the world. In an article in LidovĂ© noviny Karel Čapek named his brother Josef as the true inventor of the word.[14][15] In Czech, robota means forced labour of the kind that serfs had to perform on their masters' lands and is derived from rab, meaning "slave".
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