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07-28-2021, 10:58 AM | #41 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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For something people seem so scared of, it doesn’t seem anyone can agree on what it is or describe it in more than vague terms… but what can you expect from trendy buzzwords, I suppose.
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07-28-2021, 11:38 AM | #42 |
Zenryoku Zenkai!
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 372
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"Cancel culture" rarely sees anyone permantly lose work, outside of the people who have done the very worst things, like Weinstein
Most people who get cancelled continue to get work, many just have to shift their target audience to the people who actually liked whatever they did (look at Louis C.K. for an example of that method of recovery, now he just caters to the people who supported him) One of the most famous early Internet "cancellings" I can remember is James Gunn, and while that must have been rough at the time it's hard to say it permanently hurt his career. Suicide Squad 2 is done production, and since Disney even rehired him now Guardians 3 and the Guardians Holiday special are in early production If we're talking about celebrities who didn't commit literal crimes it seems like few who have been "cancelled" have lost all prospects of future work, I can think of more who are still working off the top of my head honestly A recent example would be Gina Carano, who got picked up to be in some movie Ben Shapiro is making pretty much the instant Disney cut ties with her On the internet celebrity side of things I'd say many notably "cancelled" people are doing the same or sometimes better than before they were "cancelled" JonTron is one of the earliest Internet cancellings I remeber being around for and now my understanding is he has more subscribers than ever Some more recent one's include ProJared who managed to make a nearly complete recover after he literally received nudes from minors and sent nudes to minors, many people say it wasn't his fault because he asked people their age, but it was only due to his own lack of responsibility and his choice to create a NSFW blog aimed at getting nudes from his fans that it even happened, it was all due to his own decisions... yet he recovered from that Recently Dan Avidan and Vinny from vinesauce have also largely survived getting "cancelled" with minimal acknowledgment of the issue on their parts People act like cancel culture is so scary, but most of the time people just want an explanation or apology, it gets blown out of proportion, and then the target recovers regardless of if they actually ever owner up to what they did It's largeky a buzzword at this point the way people use it, and not a real threat to you or most people Lot's of people thought Apu was an uncomfortable stereotype for years, saying no one at all used to care sounds like perception bias to me, just because you personally never saw anyone complain doesn't mean nobody was, I assure you lots of people didn't like hearing a white guy pretend to be a stereotypical Indian man for years before the issue exploded, notably a large chunk of the people affected by the Apu thing were kids at the time getting called "Apu" at school who couldn't properly voice their discontent on a large platform until they were adults Last edited by TheJaz; 07-28-2021 at 11:57 AM.. |
07-28-2021, 11:44 AM | #43 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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The thing is to me that also just sounds like the free market. Celebrity does something; people don’t like it, criticise them and don’t support it. Sometimes they lose their job due to unpopularity but that’s the way the world is. Always been this way lol
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07-28-2021, 11:53 AM | #44 |
Zenryoku Zenkai!
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 372
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Quote:
But even then being removed from one show/project/company does not equal the end of your career In the case of Kimura, even if toei cut ties with him he'd likely still be able to get other acting jobs, even if he didn't he has a lot of dedicated fans in Japan, so he has lots of options, for example he could probabaly start a profitable streaming career capitalizing on his fans and there's nothing anyone could do to stop him |
07-28-2021, 12:00 PM | #45 |
Filthy SU/FE Trash
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 572
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here's the thing regarding the op post and I hate going here but Social Justice/Wokeness/political correctness/race relationships whatever you can think of regarding Vice's VA isn't really as big of a hot button issue in Japan as it is over here (if Zero One aired in America Twitter would have been furious how Yabia was handled and why most African characters in Kamen Rider are complete Grade A stereotypes) and if Toei had to appease either their local audience or their niche national audience who do you think they're gonna appease I get why your upset and I do think he should issue an apology statement for the tasteless statements he made and some of his performances but you get the point
Last edited by Mmicb0b; 07-28-2021 at 12:53 PM.. |
07-28-2021, 01:18 PM | #46 |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 613
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Some people go for the separation of the art from the artist. But for me, it is hard to do. You enjoy the art, you enjoy the characters and naturally you get attracted to the real faces behind them. But when the real face turns out to be a horrible person, it creates conflict in you.
Can you enjoy the fictional character completely ignoring the real face behind it? Can you call your favorite character your hero when you know the one who portrayed said hero was going against what your hero does? Or, are you willing to ignore all the wrong the real face has done just to enjoy your fantasy? Because fictional actions stay fictional, but the real actions happens in real life, they hurt real people and it's not easy to ignore that or brush it aside. Example: I like Stanley Kubrick's films, mostly the Shining, but I can't see that film without remembering how abusive he was on set and the psychological damage he caused to Shelly Duval. I can't enjoy Bill Cosby's shows ignoring the crimes he did. I can't enjoy Activision or EA games knowing the many abuses they have done to their development teams. Some of these stuff cannot be ignored just because they deliver great art. |
07-28-2021, 02:04 PM | #47 |
Fangirl-Type Humagear
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 703
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Right? I assume (I hope) we can all agree that it's reasonable to not want to support someone who's hurt you. But when someone famous hurts a whole bunch of people, suddenly not supporting them becomes seen as some kind of extreme political agenda!
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The mask you wear by choice shows more about you than the face you were given by chance. |
07-28-2021, 02:08 PM | #48 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Quote:
Some people go for the separation of the art from the artist. But for me, it is hard to do. You enjoy the art, you enjoy the characters and naturally you get attracted to the real faces behind them. But when the real face turns out to be a horrible person, it creates conflict in you.
Can you enjoy the fictional character completely ignoring the real face behind it? Can you call your favorite character your hero when you know the one who portrayed said hero was going against what your hero does? Or, are you willing to ignore all the wrong the real face has done just to enjoy your fantasy? Because fictional actions stay fictional, but the real actions happens in real life, they hurt real people and it's not easy to ignore that or brush it aside. Example: I like Stanley Kubrick's films, mostly the Shining, but I can't see that film without remembering how abusive he was on set and the psychological damage he caused to Shelly Duval. I can't enjoy Bill Cosby's shows ignoring the crimes he did. I can't enjoy Activision or EA games knowing the many abuses they have done to their development teams. Some of these stuff cannot be ignored just because they deliver great art.
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07-28-2021, 02:29 PM | #49 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,270
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Quote:
"Cancel culture" rarely sees anyone permantly lose work, outside of the people who have done the very worst things, like Weinstein
Most people who get cancelled continue to get work, many just have to shift their target audience to the people who actually liked whatever they did (look at Louis C.K. for an example of that method of recovery, now he just caters to the people who supported him) One of the most famous early Internet "cancellings" I can remember is James Gunn, and while that must have been rough at the time it's hard to say it permanently hurt his career. Suicide Squad 2 is done production, and since Disney even rehired him now Guardians 3 and the Guardians Holiday special are in early production If we're talking about celebrities who didn't commit literal crimes it seems like few who have been "cancelled" have lost all prospects of future work, I can think of more who are still working off the top of my head honestly A recent example would be Gina Carano, who got picked up to be in some movie Ben Shapiro is making pretty much the instant Disney cut ties with her On the internet celebrity side of things I'd say many notably "cancelled" people are doing the same or sometimes better than before they were "cancelled" JonTron is one of the earliest Internet cancellings I remeber being around for and now my understanding is he has more subscribers than ever Some more recent one's include ProJared who managed to make a nearly complete recover after he literally received nudes from minors and sent nudes to minors, many people say it wasn't his fault because he asked people their age, but it was only due to his own lack of responsibility and his choice to create a NSFW blog aimed at getting nudes from his fans that it even happened, it was all due to his own decisions... yet he recovered from that Recently Dan Avidan and Vinny from vinesauce have also largely survived getting "cancelled" with minimal acknowledgment of the issue on their parts People act like cancel culture is so scary, but most of the time people just want an explanation or apology, it gets blown out of proportion, and then the target recovers regardless of if they actually ever owner up to what they did It's largeky a buzzword at this point the way people use it, and not a real threat to you or most people Lot's of people thought Apu was an uncomfortable stereotype for years, saying no one at all used to care sounds like perception bias to me, just because you personally never saw anyone complain doesn't mean nobody was, I assure you lots of people didn't like hearing a white guy pretend to be a stereotypical Indian man for years before the issue exploded, notably a large chunk of the people affected by the Apu thing were kids at the time getting called "Apu" at school who couldn't properly voice their discontent on a large platform until they were adults That's completely ignorant of you to think Cancel Culture is just a boogie man. Normally anyone that says that probably takes part in it themselves. Vic Mignogna has been blacklisted after those accusations hit, all because he was a christian, which the people in Funimation don't like him for. Quinton Flynn was recently hit with it that cost him roles, like NMH3 and getting removed from WoW, even though he took the accuser to court and actually won it, so he's innocent, but the damage was done and we don't know if he'll get any roles again. Chris Avellone got hit with it and guess what, not getting work, even though he said the person was full of shit, which he backed up. Developer of that Harry Potter game, all because he watches videos of people criticizing SJW's, which is not against the law as I recall. That's the idea of cancel culture, hurt them and the careers with out of context and lies. Saying how most people bounce back from is insanely insensitive to the ones that don't bounce back and their lives ruined. |
07-28-2021, 02:33 PM | #50 |
Dai Shogun
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 7,527
|
Quote:
Yeah this is where I’m at. I’m going to try and watch Revice, but I won’t be surprised if I’m ultimately not able to get into it hearing Vice’s voice. It especially seems hard now the press conference and trailer have dropped which show Vice really mugging the camera and like, getting pally almost through the fourth wall. Maybe it’ll work out but man
Like, I don’t know what kind of person he is, everyone makes mistakes. I don’t want to judge him solely on the two instances where he fucked up, but he fucked up so royally you kind of wonder why an adult purposefully went through with this instead of thinking “Hey, this isn’t cool, maybe I shouldn’t do this”. |
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