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09-15-2021, 03:25 PM | #261 |
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KAMEN RIDER DIE: And, man, speaking of shoehorning in characters: WHY WAS RYOTARO IN THIS! The last non-Decade Den-O project was about saying goodbye to Ryotaro's actor, and introducing a new Den-O to carry the narrative weight. So, hey, here's Kotaro as Den-O, teaming up with Hana and the Den-Liner crew... including a youthened Ryotaro, who is the original Ryotaro that the series literally just said goodbye to, and he's still getting possessed by the Imagin so Sword Form can save the day.
WHY. WHY. WHY. Why the last movie? Why Kotaro? WHY. However, something else I find strange about Ryoutarou in this movie is how he's referred to as being 19 years old. He was born in December 1988, so if this is May 2009, why is he not 20 yet? Did Kobayashi fail at math?! Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: The real emotional focus was Yuuto (the movie treats it like this is some gigantic, game-changing shock, which it definitely was not for me), and... man, I really want to Get Along With Yuuto, but this kid's story just didn't do it for me. Did his story about parental loss and geographic dissatisfaction connect with you?
Fun Fact: Yu's actor is actually.... An actress! Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: And that's what was so weird for me: I love Yuuto and Deneb. LOVE. Absolutely my favorite relationship on Den-O, and one of my all-time favorite pairings across the entire Kamen Rider franchise. I should be super in the bag for the Secret Origin of Yuuto and Deneb. But, wow, I was really not.
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ENCHILADA645: Um... honestly this movie was an interesting experience going back to. But rewatching it, now I'm remembering exactly why I only remember the last big act of the movie starting with the literal ruse cruise. Also there is something I noticed about a lot of Den-O Movies post series, and it's that the big fight at the end has like a huge bar fight energy to it. And I feel like you can say that about a lot of like the post series Den-O Movies in terms of climaxes.
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09-15-2021, 03:37 PM | #262 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
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09-15-2021, 03:44 PM | #263 |
Standing By
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It totally blew my mind when I found out about that!
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09-15-2021, 03:54 PM | #264 |
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Posts: 894
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I found out about it when I was watching EZ Rider's Toku Time video review of the movie myself.
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09-15-2021, 11:06 PM | #265 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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That's true. I wasn't saying it was "bad," as Yuu was still pulled off nicely, just that those sorts of time tropes aren't my favorite. I'm sure my thoughts on Den-O the show might be completely different, but I can't deny the positivity surrounding the show, time shenanigans included.
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Hey I'm just gonna peak in quick. This is movie is one of the very first kamen rider things I saw, way back when Kamen Rider/Super Sentai stuff was still being uploaded to youtube in like 3 parts (This was when youtube still let you change your background and stuff). I think I had no idea what was going on tbh. Like I barely remember anything about it, did not know that the main character kid was yuuto, or even who yuuto was. I had no context from either show too. I can't remember why I chose to watch it tbh. I do know it made me love the new Den-o design though.
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Unfortunately, they do act very morally ambiguous outside their show, like I mentioned about Kaito in SHW. It's weird, since I've seen a lot of people praise those characters for their post-show appearances which are sometimes OOC or exaggerated for contrived conflict, while bashing the show where they're more like themselves.
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It just came off mildly uncomfortable to me. This kid is making some ancient archer out to be his new mom? And his new mom also has a bit of a death wish?
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09-16-2021, 10:42 PM | #266 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quick programming note!
Scheduling has been sort of tricky for the next couple Decade episodes, not at all helped by my having to work today on my day off. Also, my mom - Kamen Rider Dianne - is in town this weekend, so my toku time is sort of nowhere. Long story short, with any luck the stars will align and we'll get to Kabuto on Sunday or Monday. Thanks for your patience!
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09-17-2021, 11:54 AM | #267 |
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Posts: 1,290
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She looks great (that leather outfit!), but that comment did not specify characters! "Everyone Ura possesses looks stupid hot" means that Tsukasa here is also ridiculously sexy, and I want that on the record. He may be a creepy turtle, but he manages to glam up everything he touches.
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KAMEN RIDER DIE: I'd give it a slight edge over the Den-O/Kiva flick, but not by much. (Actually, I think THIS movie has more Kiva stuff than that one, since the Arms Monsters get an extended, funny cameo.) Decade is, y'know, around for a couple scenes, but he has basically no bearing on the plot. He doesn’t inform or contribute. He basically shows up for two-thirds of the final fight, and then leaves while the Den-Liner crew are fighting for their lives. Both Decade and Diend come off as callous to the point of villainous. How did Tsukasa's bailing and Kaitou's shit-stirring work for you?
ENCHILADA645: Eh I'd say less callous, and more... they're sorta just there in regards to things. Or at least like, Tsukasa is mostly apathetic to the whole situation. And I don't really blame him given his journey to the next world got interrupted by Sieg and he got possessed for like the fifth time or so. So he just wants to deal with Den-O for good, even if that does just mean making a small cameo here. Daiki is very... he's there? And he has this weird purple effect for his dimensional walls that we never see before or after this. I'm honestly not sure what his purpose was here or what he was trying to do. Was he trying to spite Momo for him not becoming a train? Us for forgetting about him near entirely in the last recap? Or was his whole "special service" because he knew his clones would get body jacked? I'm honestly not sure. Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: And, man, speaking of shoehorning in characters: WHY WAS RYOTARO IN THIS! The last non-Decade Den-O project was about saying goodbye to Ryotaro's actor, and introducing a new Den-O to carry the narrative weight. So, hey, here's Kotaro as Den-O, teaming up with Hana and the Den-Liner crew... including a youthened Ryotaro, who is the original Ryotaro that the series literally just said goodbye to, and he's still getting possessed by the Imagin so Sword Form can save the day.
WHY. WHY. WHY. Why the last movie? Why Kotaro? WHY. ENCHILADA645: Yeah this movie is very odd in that regard. You've got the big goodbye for Ryotaro, and you've also got them setting Momotaros as a solo deal in the episodes that advertise this movie. But then you've also got this movie setting up like the new status quo going forward for a bit here Quote:
ENCHILADA645: Having seen this movie once before, I picked up on what was going on after Yuuto got a lot of focus and Deneb possessed him. So like, the twist clearly had no effect on me. And I'll be real I completely forgot about this being the main emotional plot of the movie because the most I remembered of the movie is like, the last 20 or so minutes.
That being said, while his like core motivations didn't really do much for me in the beginning, I kind of warmed up to him once he got involved with the Den-Liner crew and had those moments in the past with the archer girl. It was enough for me to have like a big stupid smile on my face in the ending where we see regular Yuuto and Deneb paling around. KAMEN RIDER DIE: And that's what was so weird for me: I love Yuuto and Deneb. LOVE. Absolutely my favorite relationship on Den-O, and one of my all-time favorite pairings across the entire Kamen Rider franchise. I should be super in the bag for the Secret Origin of Yuuto and Deneb. But, wow, I was really not. Pretty much as soon as the grandmother calls him Yuu-chan, I'm like Oh It's The Kid Version Of Yuuto. After that point, I kept looking for some version of Yuuto's pride or snottiness or temper or something in Yuu. I never really found it? He's just some random kid, and his dilemma is really dull to me (I sort of expect more nuance from Den-O at this point than We Can't Lose Ourselves In The Past.) He's so thinly sketched, and there's none of Yuuto's nostalgia for me to fill in the blanks. I don't know. He didn't click with me at all, and I was trying. But, yeah, that ending with Yuuto and Deneb wrestling in the park is fantastic. Why they didn't just turn this series over to those two, I will never understand. Quote:
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ENCHILADA645: Oh it was absolutely Team Den-O's incredible plan to trick an immortal oni. The minute that scene popped up I started getting deja vu and was grinning like crazy.
KAMEN RIDER DIE: It is, for sure, the best part of this movie. I found a lot of this film sort of interminably dull (all of the stuff with Yuu and Toki was creepy and unaffecting), but when the entire very large team basically does a Let's Put On A Show to trick an immortal oni into thinking he's traveled through time, I was ecstatic. It's the sort of bonkers plot development that Den-O does maybe better than any other Kamen Rider series, and it alone is worth sitting through poorly-motivated guest stars and movie-only actors who just did not make a single positive impression on me. Though I gotta defend a bit of the other scenes, personally I find Toki likable, probably due to her keeping gentle and lighthearted demeanor despite being in hardened situation. Also if you'd use creepy as criticism here, I don't know.. there's a hug scene, but I'd only view that as psychologically helping others, lending a shoulder to other's crying, though hope the solution won't be turning it into typical prototypical melodrama, as the 'creepy' description can be used by some people in another kid-adult interaction like Amane to Hajime in Blade (that one's full of heated quarrel, not to those 2 but others around them), but that one's given tolerance in the discussions. Quote:
ENCHILADA645: Yeah they aren't much there at all are they? I think the most I remembered them for were their weird Rider-Oni looking suits. So it felt weird when they were having this big emotional moment in the end after reuniting for like 3 minutes.
KAMEN RIDER DIE: The suits were nice to look at, but their plan/scheme/whatever is... man, I thought Gaoh was a villain with a simplistic plan of attack and a vague endgame, but these two make Gaoh look like Evolt from Build. What do they even want, other than to be evil? Is that it?
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09-17-2021, 04:38 PM | #268 |
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All I'm gonna say is Den-O Vega Form and Den-O Super Climax FTW.
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09-17-2021, 08:41 PM | #269 |
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To ask, why don't you just treat Ryotaro's appearence just like the appearence of Kohana, Owner, Naomi, etc. as a pack of Den-O's cast to appear when the franchise revisits past stuff? I don't think that any of them have emotional stake too like Ryotaro? They're there for some of their typical comedic hijinks (though Owner gets some prominence here later). Though I agree that Ryotaro being a kid didn't make sense here (or just that they don't bother to explain why) unlike movies such as Den-O I'm Born.
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09-17-2021, 11:25 PM | #270 |
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So while I love the two new Den-O forms from the movie, I hated the movie after watching it because at this point it felt like they were squeezing the branches of a lemon tree to make lemonade. While it was great to see Mizoguchi filling in as Ryotaro instead of some random person, the magic of 2007 was not there anymore.
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