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08-20-2022, 10:54 PM | #881 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,601
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Hey kids, do you want to talk about the cycle of violence?
I joke that this series is a better Detroit Become Human/The Last of Us 2 what with the AI/Swerve to the Cycle of Violence, but I feel like this show does a lot better than those two games in those specific areas. There was a lot of good stuff in this episode, personally I enjoyed the Ark-One fight against Horobi and the Magia Softball League. Like I wasn't finding myself completely rooting for Aruto here, dude shouldn't be doing this. But I was absolutely captivated by his thirst for revenge. There's just this mystifying element to Ark-One's fight scenes. Where he's just tanking through everything and completely beating down Horobi in every regard. The slow walk towards Horobi where he's preparing the big finisher for Horobi and immediately countering Horobi's attempt to deny that finisher. Real good stuff. I also like how the show is actively showing that Aruto does not want anyone involved. He deals with the Shotrisers and Thousers in the most humane way possible, and when he ends up killing Jin you get to see how Aruto just has a face of instant despair and regret at what he's done because that was not the plan. Everything else in this episode was pretty good, but I definitely remember the final fight of the episode more for the visceral and just walking tank nature of Ark-One Aruto. |
08-20-2022, 11:05 PM | #882 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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I like that you can see that the Ark-One suit had to be repaired several times because each time it took a hit, the entire breastplate just teared itself off. They really had no time to do a bunch of VFX stuff so they just went on practical effects which is always the best option.
Anyway, well, Jin's dead, again. At this point he's really lost his charm to me as his own character. |
08-20-2022, 11:07 PM | #883 |
New Member
Join Date: Mar 2022
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I honestly can't think of much to say on this episode, last episode (even with its flaws) was my favorite in the whole series, so this one doesn't really do much for me. It's still a fine episode though, with Jin dying for the second time, though as I just said, this is the second time and we know he can come back, so even if it is sad, it doesn't have too much impact on me when I have to specify that this is his second time dying. Still a fine episode, but kind of average for one of the final 3 episodes.
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08-21-2022, 12:16 AM | #884 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Location: Chicago, IL
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Quote:
I also like how the show is actively showing that Aruto does not want anyone involved. He deals with the Shotrisers and Thousers in the most humane way possible, and when he ends up killing Jin you get to see how Aruto just has a face of instant despair and regret at what he's done because that was not the plan.
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I honestly can't think of much to say on this episode, last episode (even with its flaws) was my favorite in the whole series, so this one doesn't really do much for me. It's still a fine episode though, with Jin dying for the second time, though as I just said, this is the second time and we know he can come back, so even if it is sad, it doesn't have too much impact on me when I have to specify that this is his second time dying. Still a fine episode, but kind of average for one of the final 3 episodes.
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08-21-2022, 01:39 AM | #885 |
Reiei
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Posts: 3,691
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Aww, I liked Jin's death scene. Jin's role as Secret ZAIA Agent is dumb, but I like his use as Horobi's would-be conscience, the Izu to Horobi's Aruto. Him sacrificing himself to (hopefully) give Horobi the opportunity to turn his life around is some nice symmetry for Jin.
There is a comparison I used to draw. Jin's posture. During his revival he stood straight, but as the season went on and along with Horobi coming back, Jin's posture started slouching until he kind just looked like how he did back in the first episodes. I really thought pairing Horobi with Jin was a bad move and he should've been in his own little faction. Last edited by TheRaizin; 08-21-2022 at 01:42 AM.. |
08-21-2022, 06:31 AM | #886 |
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
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Quote:
KAMEN RIDER ZERO-ONE EPISODE 43 - ?THAT IS A HEART?
Those movies could be fun, for sure. This episode has some outstanding fight scenes (I love the shots of Ark-One in darkness, referencing Aruto?s misery), and some beautiful staging. It?s consistently entertaining to look at. But there?s a narrowness to what the episode?s talking about, and it?s reductive in ways this show largely avoided in the past. We?re not really talking about how society decides which people have value, or how working classes view their necessity to capitalism, or how marginalized people balance utility and independence within oppressive systems. We?re talking about the poisonous nature of revenge, and how violence begets more violence. Quote:
It?s fine, as a concept to explore with these characters. It?s just the Dig Two Graves lesson, but that?s got a ton of inherent drama. Doing a story where Horobi denies his own emotional needs to the detriment of his support system, while Aruto demolishes a year of goodwill to try and stave off despair, that?s a story you can tell in this world. But it?s simple, you know? It?s straightforward in the way 70-minute summer films frequently were. It?s about two forces in opposition, so everyone outside those two forces is relegated to the sidelines. Naki and Ikazuchi are back from their spa day, but they only get a single scene to tell Jin things are getting out of hand without actually, uh, helping him. Thouser and the Shotrisers (18+ show this Monday at the Metro, doors open at 9pm) spend most of the episode going to different rooms and expositing. (Good fight scene with Ark-One, though, for real.) The Humagears as a culture don?t get a say in what?s happening, other than it sounding like Horobi?s accidentally driving more of them crazy. It?s just a story about Horobi and Aruto.
On the opposite end, Jin no longer has a prejudice towards humanity, it must be since ep. 36, but he showed it here, as he points out to Horobi that humans can't be blamed for anything, and that it's Horobi's malice that drove him to kill Izu, not the "justice" he envisioned, as malice isn't exclusive to humans Jin also clearly spoke for human's favor here. But other than what Izu said about learning from biased data, what should be learned (including me too, can be hard) is that, individuals aren't groups/hive minds, can be different among each other, and entire species shouldn't take the blame if there are bad apples among them. U̶n̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶d̶u̶c̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶'̶s̶ ̶g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶ ̶l̶e̶s̶s̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶n̶t̶i̶r̶e̶ ̶g̶r̶o̶u̶p̶ ̶t̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶l̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶o̶v̶e̶r̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶'̶s̶ ̶m̶i̶s̶t̶a̶k̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶e̶n̶c̶o̶u̶r̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶"̶s̶o̶l̶i̶d̶a̶r̶i̶t̶y̶"̶.̶ Quote:
The two of them have spent the past couple episodes switching between who has the moral high ground, and the irony is that neither of them do by the end. They?re both killers, and they?re both villains. Hatred?s turned them both into vessels for destruction, with nothing to show for it but more hatred ? directed inward and outward. They?ve both lost people close to them, and are becoming a living rejection of those victims? dreams in the name of vengeance. I liked this show better when it was about how society did that, but there?s still some artistry to a story applied to the individual.
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KAMEN RIDER ZERO-ONE SO-DO AI 10: KAMEN RIDER ARK-ONE
The thing I like best about this suit is how the breastplate looks like a screaming Humagear face. The red eyes, and the open mouth? it?s a million miles away from a happy grasshopper, you know? There?s an anger to so much of this suit, and I love that. The harsh black/white coloring is a worldview without compromise or empathy: us vs them, victors vs victims. The red cuts through blocks of color to indicate that while the facade may be cold and unfeeling, underneath it?s all rage and fear. Gorgeous villain suit design.
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08-21-2022, 08:34 AM | #887 |
本当のクロスセイバー
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Himitsu
Posts: 168
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One of my favorite underrated episodes in this franchise is Kuuga's Ep 41. Even in my childhood, I used to rewatch that episode several times. There was a clear and strong message that Godai (and the show) wanted to tell for Nana ( and the audience by extension ). That scene was when Godai told Nana not to return a punch back with another punch, complete with a visual where Godai moving his fists back and forth. Returning violence with violence might sound be the easiest solution out there but... Wouldn't it be sad if there's an never ending chain of violence like that? It took roughly 20 years to finally see how strong Godai's message was as whole.
I don't have too much to say about this episode mainly because it's mainly a plot progression episode. Those words above just summarized my opinions. It's kinda saddening to see how Aruto sink so low in these episodes. As TheRaizin said maybe we all didn't imagine how mentally ill Aruto was until it was too late. Basically I see Aruto as Nana if she didn't get some pep talk from Godai. I'm pretty sure the only reason Aruto's fall into Ark-One and reciprocating the chain of violence was because no one comforted him until Azu did (Thanks, Fuwa) and no one gave him a strong pep talk like Godai was. Aruto would have been stopped if someone had told him : "Hey, dude, I know it must be hurt to see Izu exploded like that in front of your eyes. I KNOW you hate and despise Horobi so much. But, would it be the best solution for you to return the favor back to Horobi? If Izu was still here, she would tell you to use your fists to help human and Humagears alike. She wouldn't want you to sink your hands in bloodshed. She wants you to finish what she had started and failed to accomplish : Saving Horobi." Quote:
Sure! Aruto's grief over Izu;s death is, in isolation, enormously affecting and completely the sort of thing that would make Aruto lose his moral compass. It's just... I wish it hadn't started by fridging Izu. I wish the whole scene where Horobi kills Izu didn't feel so much like a plot machination, a sacrifice built specifically to make Aruto murderously unhinged. Like I mentioned in the episode post, there are elements I like metaphorically, and Aruto's turn is one of them. I just don't like how the show chose to get there.
Though, if we want to be fair, I don't like the inclusion of Jin in Horobi's murder on Izu. I also blame Jin because he DID save Izu from getting shot by Ark-Zero a few episodes ago in a superspeed fashion. To see him not having enough react time to save Izu was a bit BS in my eyes. The argument for Jin here is easy to debate but I wish they just get rid of Jin until the aftermath of Izu's death. Quote:
I respect your opinion, but I have to disagree with you here. Isamu absolutely cares about Aruto and wanted to give him the space to grieve and work out his feelings, as that's exactly what Isamu would want if he was in that position. If not for Azu showing up, I'm sure he would've had a serious pep talk prepared for Aruto later when his head was clear, but he just never got the chance. It's nice that Yua's instinct was to console Aruto, but I don't think he would've been receptive to that when the wound was so fresh. Isamu understood that, so he figured that leaving him alone was all he could do for him at that time. There's no doubt in my mind that Aruto and Isamu have an unbreakable bond after everything they've been through together.
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08-21-2022, 10:19 AM | #888 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,113
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Quote:
KAMEN RIDER ZERO-ONE EPISODE 43 - ?THAT IS A HEART?
It?s fine, as a concept to explore with these characters. It?s just the Dig Two Graves lesson, but that?s got a ton of inherent drama. Doing a story where Horobi denies his own emotional needs to the detriment of his support system, while Aruto demolishes a year of goodwill to try and stave off despair, that?s a story you can tell in this world. My favorite scene from this episode is close to the start, where Jin interrogates Horobi's belief, as they stand with the clotheslines between them. It's pretty rare for KR to have the final villain murder the female lead and then depict the villain as someone to pity rather than hate. While I mourn Izu's loss with everybody else, I can't bring myself to hate Horobi for killing her, cause deep down, he's already hating himself enough. He's refusing to listen to his heart (like Onari always advised) cause he doesn't want to feel even more suffering and he'd rather keep going with his misguided genocide than admit to himself the painful truth that he did something terrible he can never take back. It's a different spin on Gai's arc and just as tragic and it makes Horobi one of the most complex villains in KR. Quote:
KAMEN RIDER ZERO-ONE SO-DO AI 10: KAMEN RIDER ARK-ONE
The thing I like best about this suit is how the breastplate looks like a screaming Humagear face. The red eyes, and the open mouth? it?s a million miles away from a happy grasshopper, you know? There?s an anger to so much of this suit, and I love that. The harsh black/white coloring is a worldview without compromise or empathy: us vs them, victors vs victims. The red cuts through blocks of color to indicate that while the facade may be cold and unfeeling, underneath it?s all rage and fear. Gorgeous villain suit design. An obsolete magazine also revealed a look at a scrapped fight between Zero Two and Ark One, which means they were originally supposed to be different characters, but the development made it more natural for Aruto to be both and you can't exactly have Aruto fight himself literally. I am curious how that alternate reality without you-know-what would have turned out though. While Ark Zero could possess HumaGears, Ark One doesn't discriminate, showing that there's capacity for malice on both sides. Even though the AI itself is destroyed, Azu continues to spread its evil influence like a virus, in the form of Ark-branded Rider Systems to those who desire destruction. Quote:
Sorry if my words to Fuwa was a bit harsh, I do like Fuwa as a character. I just wish there was more deep and intimate between Aruto and Fuwa as close as Aruto and Izu. Maybe if Fuwa actually approached to Aruto and say "Hey, President... I'm sorry for what you have to deal with" or something like that. If Aruto was unresponsive, that would be a good reason to leave him alone. This was the part that I felt more of a plot machination because Takahashi deliberately didn't let Fuwa or anyone else to approach Aruto so Azu could take the place. Fuwa's character might be so IN character for him but I wish there was more layer for Fuwa. Even Banjo, who was all muscle, still had his times to shine to keep Sento in check and brought him back from some funks.
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08-21-2022, 01:17 PM | #889 |
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Posts: 1,093
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Seeing As basically having Aruto wrapped around her finger because she looks so much like Is is pretty sad, and seeing Aruto kill Jin knowing how far their relationship has come and knowing how Aruto feels about fathers and sons...really shows just how much all this hate, malice, and inability to really move on has hurt so, so many.
Oh yeah, I guess they finally explained how Jin came back too. |
08-21-2022, 06:42 PM | #890 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I think I just got disappointed by Jin's developments after his revival. I was looking forward to see the Burning Falcon suit frequently, especially with how frequent he was during first 16 episodes. (that said, I might need to go back for his SHF someday, dunno why I haven't gotten it yet)
There is a comparison I used to draw. Jin's posture. During his revival he stood straight, but as the season went on and along with Horobi coming back, Jin's posture started slouching until he kind just looked like how he did back in the first episodes. I really thought pairing Horobi with Jin was a bad move and he should've been in his own little faction. Quote:
This part continues to show Horobi being dedicated to his utter hatred for humanity. The reason why he brushes off Jin's suggestions and even threatened him is because, having a heart is a human trait, and Horobi acknowledging it would mean he's not different from the very humans he wanted to destroy, a "hypocrite" (when he's already one for various reasons).
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Tbh, the series painted Ark-uto as a villain here, but while Ark-uto's certainly a lot darker and more unscrupulous than his usual portrayal, they didn't really show actual villainous behaviors from him. He's only out to kill Horobi, a genocidal, hypocritical terrorist, but against others, he didn't do malicious shit at them, just being rougher than usual.
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I don't think the scene where Horobi killed Izu was a plot machination. I like how metaphorically, Horobi transformed to Kamen Rider Horobi to execute Izu. It was like Horobi himself, deep inside, didn't want to kill Izu and he only transformed back because he NEEDED the Kamen Rider persona to maybe hide his tears behind the mask. I don't think there was anything bad, idiotic, or OOC for either Horobi and Izu. Their actions in the last episode was kept based and grounded with their background and lesson.
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My favorite scene from this episode is close to the start, where Jin interrogates Horobi's belief, as they stand with the clotheslines between them. It's pretty rare for KR to have the final villain murder the female lead and then depict the villain as someone to pity rather than hate. While I mourn Izu's loss with everybody else, I can't bring myself to hate Horobi for killing her, cause deep down, he's already hating himself enough. He's refusing to listen to his heart (like Onari always advised) cause he doesn't want to feel even more suffering and he'd rather keep going with his misguided genocide than admit to himself the painful truth that he did something terrible he can never take back. It's a different spin on Gai's arc and just as tragic and it makes Horobi one of the most complex villains in KR.
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Seeing As basically having Aruto wrapped around her finger because she looks so much like Is is pretty sad, and seeing Aruto kill Jin knowing how far their relationship has come and knowing how Aruto feels about fathers and sons...really shows just how much all this hate, malice, and inability to really move on has hurt so, so many.
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