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10-08-2016, 01:43 PM | #11 |
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It's many months later, and I finally just finished Hibiki. I slowed down dramatically on Super Hero Time 2005, probably because those first few episodes after the Hibiki production team changed were so rough.
Prior to the final episode, my comment would've been, "Wow, the show eventually became enjoyable again." However, as of a few minutes ago, I watched the final episode and thought, "What the hell was that train wreck?" I knew the ending wasn't necessarily beloved, but I'd assumed its problems would be due to it failing to gel with what happened before the production team changed. I had no idea that it would be due to the new writers apparently having forgotten what they'd written. SPOILERS for the ending follow: The show had gone on at length about how Kiriya was completely unsuited to become an Oni. The show was really explicit about this: he froze up in dangerous situations, he gave up easily, he was portrayed as thin-skinned and physically weak. At the same time, the show had Asumu excel at Oni training. He lacked only a clear desire to become an Oni. I understand that the writers tried to establish that being an Oni was about surpassing one's self, but the show didn't do this legwork for Kiriya. The series jumped a year ahead for the final episode, and we're clearly supposed to assume that Kiriya overcame his many, many character flaws to become an Oni. It was frustrating for me to watch. From the introduction of Kiriya onward, it was clear he was supposed to be a character threatening to assume Asumu's future for himself, both at school and in terms of the Oni. He was portrayed as cartoonishly awful: an arrogant jerk with few redeeming qualities. As a viewer, I assumed the Kiriya was an obstacle that Asumu had to overcome in order to come of age. I really didn't expect him to succeed. The opening episode of Hibiki goes into what's effectively a musical number that establishes that music is part of who Asumu is. Given that this is the series about music-powered Riders, this seemed to make him a perfect Rider candidate. The new production team appeared to just completely forget this: now, he's putting on plays! No, wait; he actually wanted to be a doctor all along! While I'm on the topic of stuff that didn't feel thought-through: the "real" Douji and Hime turning out to have been copies of what I guess were Victorian versions.... There's a nugget of a cool idea there, but it leaves us without any resolution about the show's villains or their motivations. They were just mysterious and seemingly-random. I get what the episode was going for: Asumu didn't have to become a Rider to have a fulfilling future. And that'd make sense on any other show, but this is Kamen Rider, wherein character growth is typically marked by becoming a Rider or getting a power-up. It was tremendously unsatisfying to watch him essentially fail at the point of being a Kamen Rider protagonist. Kiriya becoming a taiko Rider was just kind of salt in the wound. This episode was trying to be a wistful meditation on growing up (with hero battles!), but I think it failed. I've read the Riderwiki page on Hibiki, so I understand the context of rewrites, etc. I also read Aoi Kurenai's comment above about how the original writer didn't have a firm ending in mind. Clearly, the later writers weren't clear on where they wanted the show to go, either. It's not like the second half of the series had been relentlessly awful. The first several episodes after the production change were pretty bad, but the arcs about Shuki, Akira, Todoroki, and Zanki were well-done. Until the ending, I thought the show had regained its footing to some extent. Now that I've seen the final episode, I just feel punked. I'm clearly not alone, given that it sounds like people were really unhappy at the time. Hibiki had been such a great show. As it is, I feel like it's maybe half of a great show. |
10-08-2016, 02:19 PM | #12 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,418
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Hibiki had devolved so badly by the end that they were literally rewriting the last episode as it was filming. By that point Toei really didn't seem to care and was just running down the clock until Kabuto started.
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10-08-2016, 03:04 PM | #13 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Quote:
I get what the episode was going for: Asumu didn't have to become a Rider to have a fulfilling future. And that'd make sense on any other show, but this is Kamen Rider, wherein character growth is typically marked by becoming a Rider or getting a power-up. It was tremendously unsatisfying to watch him essentially fail at the point of being a Kamen Rider protagonist.
I'm largely in agreement with everyone else about Hibiki's second half and especially the finale itself but I'll defend that element of it to the death. Especially the very last scene where Hibiki sums up the point of the whole show by telling Asumu "you don't have to be an Oni to be my student" with Shounen Yo playing for the first time in several dozen episodes. Hibiki was the last of the Heisei Riders I played catch up on and while it was a bit of a bumpy ride that final scene felt straight out of the first half of the series and, for me personally, not only ended Hibiki on a good note, but my entire run of having whole Kamen Rider shows to binge at my leisure (excluding the Showa stuff obviously). With that kind of pressure I think it's impressive I liked it as much as I did.
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10-08-2016, 03:15 PM | #14 |
Kawaii 5-0
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Cardiff, United Kingdom
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Quote:
And right there you accidentally stumbled on why I love that part of the ending. Hibiki was conceived as a very atypical Rider show and Asumu not becoming an Oni was very in line with that. I don't think it was some brilliantly planned out conclusion but the series up to that point seemed to support the idea. It fits the coming of age theme in my mind to have him try a path out only to find it isn't really his thing.
I'm largely in agreement with everyone else about Hibiki's second half and especially the finale itself but I'll defend that element of it to the death. Especially the very last scene where Hibiki sums up the point of the whole show by telling Asumu "you don't have to be an Oni to be my student" with Shounen Yo playing for the first time in several dozen episodes.
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10-08-2016, 06:56 PM | #15 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,527
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Quote:
But again, I can understand why Toei kicked out Takadera given his auteur tendencies and alleged notorious budget management for visual wonders(i.e. Kuuga's burning chapel). Plus, Inoue, hate him or love him, I heard is an industry favorite cause apparently he is willing to do filler eps and help out production. If you factor this in Inoue is like a double-edged sword, he is resourceful and a godsend for production staff for such dire situations, but because he probably is not 100% on board the lore at times, the end result can be hit or miss.
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10-08-2016, 07:58 PM | #16 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,418
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Quote:
And right there you accidentally stumbled on why I love that part of the ending. Hibiki was conceived as a very atypical Rider show and Asumu not becoming an Oni was very in line with that. I don't think it was some brilliantly planned out conclusion but the series up to that point seemed to support the idea. It fits the coming of age theme in my mind to have him try a path out only to find it isn't really his thing.
I'm largely in agreement with everyone else about Hibiki's second half and especially the finale itself but I'll defend that element of it to the death. Especially the very last scene where Hibiki sums up the point of the whole show by telling Asumu "you don't have to be an Oni to be my student" with Shounen Yo playing for the first time in several dozen episodes. |
10-08-2016, 08:47 PM | #17 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Hey, we agree on lots of stuff! Just as long as we're not talking Ghost.
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10-08-2016, 08:59 PM | #18 |
I'm an agile cat.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,020
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Ah Hibiki. I didn't get very far into it before I fell out of Toku, but it was wonderfully unique. And the costumes, Goddamn, they're excellent. SS Zanki/Todoroki/etc. please Bandai? Don't make me beg, bro...
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10-08-2016, 10:31 PM | #19 |
Oldtaku
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Atlanta, Ga / Portland, Me
Posts: 855
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I had to stop reading this awesome thread as it was getting into ep's I have yet to see but
Totally of a mind. It is excellent.
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11-05-2016, 08:32 AM | #20 |
The unKamen Rider
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,332
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Haven't read the whole thread, but Hibiki is one of my top 3 so I had to chime in.
The first half is a masterwork of Tokusatsu. It was so different and refreshing and all those good things. I don't really want to just repeat what I'm sure others have already said in this thread. The staff change is a bit overblown. Yes, some of the changes were awful, especially early into it. It really did lose much of its tone and style that made it special and unique. But honestly, it didn't ruin the show. While I do feel the first half is superior, some of the show's strongest moments come AFTER the change. Hibiki is also one of the only times I haven't bern pissed off at the ending of a toku season. Fun fact, not sure if it was brought up, the different versions of the opening instrumental each corresponds to the rider the episode focuses on, at least if I remember right. Hibiki is up there with Zolda and Bravo as my favorite rider. And Shonen Yo is probably my favorite song in toku alongside Alive A Life from Ryuki.
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