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03-10-2022, 10:08 PM | #21 |
Precure enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Amongst the Cosmos
Posts: 304
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Quote:
The problem for me, I think, is that the premise of the show is really good, and the supporting cast is quickly compelling... but it's all happening to the wrong protagonist? It's like The Terminator, but with Scott Pilgrim instead of Sarah Conner. Without a charismatic and forceful presence at the center with a definable viewpoint, like, Tsukuyomi is right! They definitely seem to have the wrong guy!
Speaking of Decade, this is also an anniversary season. I think it's an interesting contrast: If Decade was more of a tribute to the themes of Heisei Rider, then Zi-O should make their tributes featuring the characters of Heisei Rider. It's a good way to make Zi-O distinct with their tributes, but its also a double-edged sword in my opinion? There is something that I've seen everyone agree about Zi-O's anniversary content: the monster designs *rock*. I really love the Bulid one, excited to see the others again! |
03-10-2022, 10:15 PM | #22 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,589
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Actually there's one thing I don't think was mentioned?
How does everyone feel about our OP for this season? Over Quartzer. I personally enjoy it and there are certain shots I absolutely adore, like everyone in the "Mid-Rider Kick Dimension" where they're just looking and poking at things. Or how we see Zi-O and Geiz kick past all the other Riders who immediately proceed to kick all at once after they do. And then out of the flames of that you see Zi-O riding his bike. Real good stuff honestly! I never really got a chance to appreciate the visuals due to all the text on screen but thankfully that All Heisei Rider Clean OP that Toei officially put up allowed me to take in the really cool shots since those had no credits. |
03-10-2022, 10:22 PM | #23 |
Procrastinator
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Earth
Posts: 256
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Quote:
I love that the best/most frequent defense of Sougo is He Gets Better At Some Point But I Don't Remember Why. Like, that's just getting worn down? I'm all for finding fun takes for irritating characters, but you gotta start giving me something for this kid that I can latch onto in the present tense.
I will be sure to shout out the moment Sougo Gets Good, so we can all bookmark it for later fans. Although, now that I think about it, I do wish they had focused on some things a bit more, or earlier. Like, why is Sougo so sure he wants to be a king in the first place?
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03-10-2022, 10:27 PM | #24 |
Precure enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Amongst the Cosmos
Posts: 304
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Took a few listens to really get into it, but I enjoy the song. The visuals are solid, love those spinning backgrounds. The little nod to Ryuki's OP (where our main 3 are arguing on a far off tv) by having its own version of that is one of my favorite details.
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03-10-2022, 10:28 PM | #25 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,426
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Quote:
But Sougo? I can?t get a handle on him, as a character? Not even as a protagonist or a hero or a lead, but as a character. He wants to be a king, but like, as a career? That?s ludicrous. I?ve seen plenty of ridiculous motivations in Kamen Rider (and I love Tsurugi, who is a preposterous bundle of Bizarre Achievements in an ascot), but this is beyond the pale. You cannot study to become a king. You can?t fill out an application to be a monarch. There isn?t a good school to major in the regency arts.
It?s the sort of stupid, stupid motivation that I normally adore, because the thought process behind it is usually so specific and bonkers that I am enthralled. Tsurugi?s quest to be the Best At Besting is drawn from his traumas, his desires, his isolation, his responsibilities, his etc. But Sougo wants to be a king? because it seemed like a good idea? As a defining trait goes, it?s terrible. It?s an absence of definition for his character. It?s generic: I Want This instead of I Want This Because. There?s room in the episode for it to be purposefully generic, certainly. The overriding feeling of the episode is that of inevitability, that Sougo couldn't ever become anything other than the King Of Time(pieces), and that outcome has trickled backward to his present. But it?s never portrayed as a burning drive, or a path he can?t veer away from. It?s portrayed as perfunctory; a concept as necessary for reflection and analysis as blinking. Becoming king ? something utterly ridiculous ? is treated as an autonomic process. It is a crucial mistake in the introduction of Sougo, and it?s, sadly, only the first crucial mistake this episode makes. The second one is in the way this episode never really pushes back on Sougo?s motivation? His friends and family (an uncle, since it?s Heisei Phase 2 and All Dads Are Dead) shrug it off as some quirk, like Takumi?s dislike of hot foods in Faiz, rather than an absolutely terrifying life choice for a teenager to be making. When someone says that they don?t want to take college entrance exams because they?re going to be a king, that?s bad! That isn?t a life choice! That is them throwing their life away! You don?t follow up that declaration with a cute anecdote about not letting chances pass you by! You follow that up with an intervention! So, I have a number of issues with Zi-O that I'll be addressing in the coming days and weeks but so far you have managed to absolutely nail one of the big ones right on the head. I'm very much of the same opinion as you here: Sougo's whole king obsession is the bad kind of ridiculous. His basic misunderstanding of how a monarchy works and treating it like any other job that one can apply for makes him come across as a moron. The fact that he ignores any and all legitimate criticism of his plan just makes it worse. I don't need every hero to be super cool and confident, but I feel like Sougo probably shouldn't be trusted to use scissors without supervision and that is a bad look for our protagonist. I think we'll get to what is probably my most persistent complaint about Zi-O with the next episode, I think (longtime Tokunation readers may guess what it is), but I'll also throw this bucket of water on the premiere: the first episode's pacing is nuts. I've always felt that this episode has about two episodes' worth of plot crammed into it. That sounds like it shouldn't work and it doesn't. I know it was probably easier and cheaper to throw Sento and Banjou into the first arc since they and the Build sets were still available, but saving them until episode two or three would have really helped give the new characters and concepts a chance to breathe before the tributes start. Quote:
THAT SAID! I completely don?t understand how you have two characters in a story about where their names come from that are named ?Woz? and ?Gates? and you don?t even mention the founders of Apple Computers.
Fuck me, Zi-O has existed for three years; how am I just realizing this now? |
03-10-2022, 10:49 PM | #26 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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I love the visuals man if I where to comapre it to say Decade it way more straightforward if that make sense? Like Decade visuals were grand and atmospheric ZI-O feels like a rave party with some trippy camera angles and spinning around. My favorite part of the op hasn't been revelaed yet but I'll be sure to point it out when we get to it.
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Last edited by GrandComplete; 03-10-2022 at 10:51 PM.. |
03-10-2022, 10:53 PM | #27 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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Hey, you're watching Zi-O! This is a show that's 'special' to me in various ways. As it happens, I actually do mostly recall all my initial impressions from watching every episode as it aired back in 2018 up to 2019. Probably helps that most episodes fall into such neat groupings. Not to say that I'll certainly have anything or will say something about every single episode, but I hope you don't mind me just taking your thread as an excuse to talk about my own experiences beyond acknowledging your own comments.
This first episode, well it's a lot of nonsense, huh? A lot of it is stuff I think I just sat through bewildered, but it's the beginning and the end that really stuck with me. That beginning with Oma Zi-O displaying his terrible power before hardcutting to the dopey teenager watching him makes for a strong first impression. And at the end, when Geiz asks Sougo why he is doing this, and we see the image of Oma Zi-O giving the same answer before it fades to the present Zi-O in his place? That's a really cool moment, and I was excited to see where things would go. Everything in-between is kinda whatever though. Sougo's general personality and reactions to everything is like, bizarre and not necessarily in a good way, and I just held out hope some of his 'quirks' would make sense in hindsight. There is a way to make his declaration to be a benevolent overlord a good one, but if there is, this episode isn't there yet. Oh, and the brief bit about time-travelling with time-travelling to the Build show makes no sense for so many reasons but it's hard to care if it's all to facilitate an equally brief cameo anyway. I think like you, for me personally, cameo from characters of older series really don't do anything for me especially in this show, but I especially didn't get much out of seeing Sento and Banjou considering their show ended just the previous week. But all in all, despite all that, I think just the premise and the teasing of what's to come about this story of a future overlord, and his supporting cast who all think that future is inevitable, made me interested in seeing the next episode. |
03-10-2022, 10:54 PM | #28 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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Quote:
my favorite part is the end scene where ZI-O and Geiz deflect some random lasers before clashing with one another. Geiz absolutely not looking where he's shooting is badass. |
03-10-2022, 11:05 PM | #29 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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Speaking of Over Quartzer does any remember the unused original TM Revolution version of this song?
In this early trailer the OP sounds alot different from the finished product and that because this song was originally sung by TM Revolution and Shuta Sueyoshi. Before TM was replaced by ISSA, TM Revolution would then go on to sing next year Rider show Zero-One op "RealXEyez". Now no official explanation has ever been given but the simplest theory for why the last minute change happened is a simple case of wanting to cram as many Heisei references as possible for ZI-O. See Shuta Sueyoshi is part of the band AAA who peformed "Climax Jump" Den-O OP and ISSA sung Justiφ's Faiz OP. And they simply compensated TM Revolution by letting him do Zero-One OP. Unfortunatly this version of "Over Quartzer" is still unreleased to this day despite upcoming 50th anniversary CD set which actually contain several unreleased songs throughout the franchise.
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03-10-2022, 11:26 PM | #30 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
Oh yeah this exactly. I watched both the first few episodes of Decade/Zi-O together to see which one I would save for another time, fully expecting Zi-O to take over my interest because of the premise alone, only for to be completely enamored at *gestures at Tsukasa being Tsukasa*.
With Sougo... I mean, he's the most unique of all the Heisei Riders, because I'm an episode in and I'm about zero percent invested in him. Quote:
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I think we'll get to what is probably my most persistent complaint about Zi-O with the next episode, I think (longtime Tokunation readers may guess what it is), but I'll also throw this bucket of water on the premiere: the first episode's pacing is nuts. I've always felt that this episode has about two episodes' worth of plot crammed into it. That sounds like it shouldn't work and it doesn't. I know it was probably easier and cheaper to throw Sento and Banjou into the first arc since they and the Build sets were still available, but saving them until episode two or three would have really helped give the new characters and concepts a chance to breathe before the tributes start.
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Sougo's general personality and reactions to everything is like, bizarre and not necessarily in a good way, and I just held out hope some of his 'quirks' would make sense in hindsight. There is a way to make his declaration to be a benevolent overlord a good one, but if there is, this episode isn't there yet.
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