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05-09-2021, 07:03 AM | #81 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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I think they like a funny character?
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05-09-2021, 07:07 AM | #82 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,534
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I dunno, that feels like saying Loki is just like Gambit. Doesn't seem right. *scratches head*
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05-09-2021, 10:24 AM | #83 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,100
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So Otoya is definitely one of the most memorable and entertaining characters from the show for a lot of people, myself included, but I would also like to talk about my favorite 86 character, Yuri! Possibly my favorite heroine in KR. I was in a rush with the last post, talking about different perceptions of art and the connection between Wataru and Otoya, so I forgot to mention her.
I like that Yuri is consistently the most competent and least weird character and how she's good in combat even without a Rider System. As a waitress, she acts similar to Hiyori, with how she speaks rudely to Otoya, but she has no problem being polite and formal around most other customers. Even though it's good etiquette to show respect to all customers equally, I can't really blame her for making an exception with Otoya who totally deserves most of the bad stuff that happens to him. It's not like Master cares either, since his tolerance for Otoya is also limited. Yuri's respect is hard to earn, especially by people whose flaws are always in the foreground of their behavior.
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05-09-2021, 11:40 AM | #84 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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And again I want to ask for the contrasting reaction between this and a previous series. Here, you think Wataru facing the reality of his dad's past is relatable and this part has him apologizing to others for Otoya and likely blaming himself for their misfortunes, but before in a series like Blade, you think the idea that something someone's father did without knowledge and prevention gives enormous weight equals to them being unable to function as a person and that you can't relate for "I Must Atone For My Family’s Misdeeds"? That parents aren't extension or reflection of the child and thus is their own people and responsible of their own actions?
That plot on Blade was... I mean, I'm pretty sure I liked the beginning of it? (I honestly barely remember that show, my thoughts on it, what I wrote, etc. My memory for these things is terrible.) There was some stuff in there that I liked about what Shiori was going through, how she needed to internalize her shame and move on. That was thematically relevant to Blade, the need to recover from failure. The longer the show wanted to spend on some shitty thing her dad did (U.N.D.A.D.? Was that where the story went?), as though she had any control over it, the less I was into that plot. It felt tangential to what was going on there. With Kiva, the whole story is about Wataru trying to connect with his father. This type of plot is way more meaningful to the series, and way more looped into the themes. Wataru as a character, specifically, is wrapped up in trying to live up to his father's memory. Having that memory become a negative force is... I mean, it is exactly the sort of story this show was built to tell. Long story short, Wataru feeling immense guilt over things his father did is more important story than Shiori feeling immense guilt over something her did. They have different weights to them. Quote:
I like that Yuri is consistently the most competent and least weird character and how she's good in combat even without a Rider System. As a waitress, she acts similar to Hiyori, with how she speaks rudely to Otoya, but she has no problem being polite and formal around most other customers. Even though it's good etiquette to show respect to all customers equally, I can't really blame her for making an exception with Otoya who totally deserves most of the bad stuff that happens to him. It's not like Master cares either, since his tolerance for Otoya is also limited. Yuri's respect is hard to earn, especially by people whose flaws are always in the foreground of their behavior.
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05-09-2021, 12:41 PM | #85 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,551
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Sorry for the late post, I’ve been up to some other stuff (if my new temporary signature wasn’t enough of a giveaway).
So, we’re at the point I knew I was hooked on this show (having been directed to it by Kiva’s appearances in the bumpers for the Sentai that aired alongside it). The idea that (one of) our hero’s actions have consequences and rub off on (a different one) our hero kind of let me know exactly what we were in for with the two times gimmick. And I was all for it. And we meet Keisuke Nago, the “Kusaka” of this series. During my second watch, I was taking screenshots to share with a Facebook group that specialises on out of context screenshots from Tokusatsu related media and he popped up more than once (at one point leading the group’s admin to make a Mandolorian joke). |
05-09-2021, 12:51 PM | #86 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Sorry for the late post, I’ve been up to some other stuff (if my new temporary signature wasn’t enough of a giveaway).
So, we’re at the point I knew I was hooked on this show (having been directed to it by Kiva’s appearances in the bumpers for the Sentai that aired alongside it). The idea that (one of) our hero’s actions have consequences and rub off on (a different one) our hero kind of let me know exactly what we were in for with the two times gimmick. And I was all for it. Secondly, yeah, the way the 1986 stuff feeds into the 2008 stuff is one of the strengths of the series. It leads to a very Kamen Rider way of looking at things, where Decreasing Sadness becomes a more massive undertaking, something that it takes multiple generations to try and accomplish. Like, there's a constant struggle to Kiva that I find very smart. The way that struggle lives inside Wataru is what gets me so invested in this show, I think. It's a real Inoue thing, from Agito and Faiz, where making some weird peace with your needs becomes the key to helping others, and how that struggle reflects a society that is trying to balance selfishness with selflessness. Kiva's a fun show to think about!
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05-09-2021, 07:30 PM | #87 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Ishida!!!
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05-09-2021, 08:41 PM | #88 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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KAMEN RIDER KIVA EPISODE 04 - "REVERIE: WILD BLUE”
Uh... sloppy. Sloppy episode! It's all the hell over the place. There's a whole bunch of tiny things that get covered/addressed/introduced, but it leaves the main Wataru Reckons With His Father's Legacy story feeling slightly undercooked (the Moth Fangire's motivation feels like it's at cross-purposes from Wataru's story?) with an ending that... uh. So, that ending. I do mostly appreciate what it's trying to say. Wataru has learned that his father was an unrepentant scumbag (not a fan of Otoya getting punched for being a creep and him going Cost Of Doing Business!), but he's also learned that his father believed in the beauty of the world. Otoya is The Worst, but he's also capable of gentleness. Wataru's learned that his father was complicated, and that's different from being a bad parent. It's a sweet little grace note. It doesn't undo or forgive the earlier revelations about Otoya, but it creates room to be impressed by his sweetness, or respect his artistry. It's a story where Wataru stops deifying the idea of Otoya and starts connecting with the reality of Otoya. I don't know if the show really earned that ending, though? It's the same problem I have with all of these I Forgive My Terrible Parent stories across the Kamen Rider franchise: the sense of scale. Wataru falls victim to it, here, where he seems to ignore his previous quest to redeem the Kurenai legacy simply because his dad wasn't a complete prick every minute of every day. It's the same with the people whose lives Otoya destroyed. When they see that Wataru is a sweet kid who wants to atone for his dad, both of the victims cheerfully abandon decades of seething rage with a Pobody's Nerfect shrug at Otoya's sliminess and their own (legitimate!) complicity. It's ridiculous, and it honestly made me start rooting for the Moth Fangire for a few minutes. The episode can't seem to decide if Otoya running around Japan and bankrupting people due to avarice, gluttony, and sloth is a big deal or not, and that keeps this episode from really delivering on Wataru's dilemma. He's shook to his foundations, and then when a Fangire confesses to orchestrating this existential threat because she was in love with Otoya, the stakes, just, like, vanish. Wataru doesn't need to make up for anything, because... something something spurned lover something something unrequited love something something daddy was an artist? There were binders of people who had been wronged by Otoya, and the show doesn't do nearly enough to put the scope of those crimes into any sort of context for Wataru. Why is the fact that his father was an artist some sort of balance against binders of malfeasance?! It'd be a compelling idea if Otoya, like, worked too hard or something. But he's The Worst, and the show seems to forget that right at the conclusion of this story. (Also... what the hell was the Moth Fangire trying to do? Was her whole revenge against Otoya just making Wataru feel bad? Why? Did she know he was Kiva ahead of time? What if Wataru didn't give a shit about his dad? Would the Moth Fangire have spent years tracking down everyone Otoya wronged for no reason? Why introduce a path towards redemption and then be so shocked that two random victims out of thousands were okay with it? I don't understand anything she was trying to do!) Putting aside the main story, which has a genuinely sweet message that it absolutely did not deliver on (some beautiful images notwithstanding), the other interesting thing in this episode was the integration of Nago into the core dynamic, and I loved that. Nago's the empathetic dad to Megumi's helicopter mom, and that team is electric to me. Seeing the two of them bicker over who is more helpful to Wataru, and Wataru naturally being 1000% on Team Dad, brilliant stuff. They've got outstanding chemistry (Megumi has chemistry with everyone, best actor on this show by a mile), and Nago fills in the parenting equation this show's going to need going forward. Like, Wataru is going to keep looking for a dad in the men he respects. There's a part of his development that isn't there, and it's going to lead him to put paternal figures on pedestals. He did it with Otoya last episode, and he does it with Nago in this one. He's innately looking for the guidance and approval he never really got from his real dad, so he'll keep looking for it in other relationships. Wataru's going to let Nago in, and put stock in his opinion, when he probably should be a little more guarded. Conversely, Wataru's keeping Megumi at a distance, when she's someone who's actually capable of giving him unbiased advice. Very curious what the deal is with Wataru's mom; feels like there's a key to his treatment of Megumi in there. Speaking of father figures! Zanki is a werewolf sword that lives inside the belly of a Dragon Cathedral! I have no comment other than Of Course He Is!
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05-09-2021, 09:21 PM | #89 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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On the subject of werewolf swords, here's Garulu Form's BGM, which is appropriately feral and hectic sounding.
Kiva's various forms are super cool, by the way. Unabashedly taking a lot of what made Kuuga work so well, but doing their own thing at the same time with Kiva's unique – and extremely busy – design sense. Tying a monster character into them will also seem extremely familiar, but Kiva was pretty careful about making sure the things it copied from Den-O weren't entirely the same. Notably, Wataru isn't getting possessed by anyone, although apparently they do affect his personality, which is why Kiva gets so growly and aggressive here. The idea that Kiva is barely controlling the monster's power with his own was a conscious part of the design, even, which I presume is where the super stylish asymmetry comes from? It's basically like his left arm has a bad case of lycanthropy? The end result is quite up my alley, at any rate. On the subject of sloppy Kiva writing, though... yeah, something I kind of assumed it'd take a bit longer to get a chance to mention, going back to the discussion about how the show portrays Otoya, is that I recall it feeling quite muddled at points exactly what the show is going for with him? It'll be interesting to see if this kind of thing becomes a recurring issue for you or not. For the record, I also recall rather liking Megumi, on a more positive note. It's been so long since I've seen the show I couldn't give you a particularly specific answer as to why, but "outstanding chemistry with everyone" certainly matches up with what vague memories I have left. She was a character I remember just being fun to have around, basically? (Also, her little pistol with the wings or whatever? That thing is neat and I like it!)
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05-09-2021, 09:36 PM | #90 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
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On the subject of sloppy Kiva writing, though... yeah, something I kind of assumed it'd take a bit longer to get a chance to mention, going back to the discussion about how the show portrays Otoya, is that I recall it feeling quite muddled at points exactly what the show is going for with him? It'll be interesting to see if this kind of thing becomes a recurring issue for you or not.
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For the record, I also recall rather liking Megumi, on a more positive note. It's been so long since I've seen the show I couldn't give you a particularly specific answer as to why, but "outstanding chemistry with everyone" certainly matches up with what vague memories I have left. She was a character I remember just being fun to have around, basically? (Also, her little pistol with the wings or whatever? That thing is neat and I like it!)
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