|
Community Links |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
|
Thread Tools |
05-09-2022, 04:17 AM | #1011 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,546
|
So the whole reason we did that commentary was so that I could get the boring stuff out of the way and focus on this, since there are 13 Ridewatches total exclusive to this movie (which I think is something of a record?)
Ridewatch Playlist: The Movie Version "Granted the power of Ohma Zi-O, the greatest kindest king, Zi-O Ohma Form" And here, I went for the obvious choice of the movie theme, P.A.R.T.Y And next up is our bad guys. "That form looks like Black! R! X! The evil Rider is… Barlcx" And here, I went for the obvious lazy choice, with Kamen Rider Black RX "That form looks like Shin, ZO and J. The evil Rider is… Zonjis" And here, I went for the one insert song in three movies, Hohoemi no Yukue "That form looks like the Amazon Riders. The evil Rider is… Zamonas" And I did likewise for this guy, with Eat Kill All And now that we've done the ones specifically released for the movie, now we've got the ones that were released under different circumstances. Remix 1: Reiwa is Beautiful "The power changed by the sun, the Rider with the black body and the red eyes is… Black RX" And like with Kuuga, Agito and Hibiki, we're doing this. Revol = from "Revolcrash/Revolcane" Ok, for this one, I just went with the three most distinctive songs from RX in order of how much I like them. Senjou no Rider RX "Fighting with the metal body and the gun, the Prince of Burning Sorrow, Robo Rider!" Hard = from "Hard Shot" Gekishin RX! "Fighting with the liquid body, the Prince of Anger, Bio Rider!" Spark = from "Spark Cutter" Hikari no Senshi Remix 2: No Heisei, No Rider "The fight begins. Fused with the grasshopper genes, Cyborg Soldier Level 3 is… Shin" High Vibe = from "High Vibe Nail" And for this mix, I just gave everyone their respective movies? themes, starting with Forever "Imbued with the power of nature, the Neo-lifeform, Experimental Subject #1 is… ZO" ZO = from "ZO Punch/ZO Kick" Ai ga Tomaranai "Jumbo Formation! The giant Rider with the power of the spirits of the land is… J" Jumbo = from "Jumbo Formation" Kokoro Tsunagu Ai Remix 3: Heisei Will Return (Disclaimer: I have no idea if anyone uses these as the catchphrases' translations. I am merely going off my own attempts to translate them, having never seen Amazons) "Protect what you want to protect. The third Amazon Rider is… Amazon Omega" And for him, I went with the choice of Die Set Down "I will destroy all of the Amazons. The bestial hunter Rider is… Amazon Alfa" And for him, I went with another obvious choice (look, there are only three songs on the soundtrack, and I already used one of them for Zamonas), Armour Zone "I must defeat my father to survive. The love-living new generation Amazon is? Amazon Neo" Nothing for him, so I'll just close off with a fact I didn't share in the commentary. Zamonas was originally meant to be a hybrid of The First, The Next and Amazons (similar to Zonjis being a hybrid of Shin, ZO and J), but they couldn't figure out how to combine the aesthetics of Inoue's gritty movies about robot bug men with Kobayashi's gory streaming series about mutant piranha men. Last edited by Androzani84; 03-20-2024 at 06:46 PM.. |
05-09-2022, 04:47 AM | #1012 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
|
(Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Zi-O: Over Quartzer)
This is easily one of my absolute favorite Kamen Rider movies ever, and it made for such a wonderful capstone to Kamen Rider Zi-O in particular. I won't lie, it's a bit frustrating to see Die being so dismissive of it, but then, I did write this about it at the time... ...so I guess this shouldn't be too surprising. But at the same time, like, man, it's *so* hard not to get fired up about this. The post at the top still says most of what I want to, but just... like, my opinion has settled now, and I still believe with all my heart that this thing is a postmodern masterpiece. It's this brilliant story of Heisei Rider being confronted by its own sins in the form of villains based on the Heisei Riders Who Aren't, while still making that a Zi-O story about the value of choosing your own path in life. It's loaded with very considered details, some of the best direction Tasaki has ever done, and tons of fun moments with characters I love. I simply couldn't imagine a more perfect celebration of everything Heisei Kamen Rider is, and everything that makes me love Zi-O so much.
__________________
|
05-09-2022, 12:57 PM | #1013 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
Same. Its message of finding the balance between escapism and fandom just... boy, that really connected with me.
Quote:
Quote:
Nothing for him, so I?ll just close off with a fact I didn?t share in the commentary. Zamonas was originally meant to be a hybrid of The First, The Next and Amazons (similar to Zonjis being a hybrid of Shin, ZO and J), but they couldn?t figure out how to combine the aesthetics of Inoue?s gritty movies about robot bug men with Kobayashi?s gory streaming series about mutant piranha men.
Quote:
This is easily one of my absolute favorite Kamen Rider movies ever, and it made for such a wonderful capstone to Kamen Rider Zi-O in particular. I won't lie, it's a bit frustrating to see Die being so dismissive of it, but then, I did write this about it at the time...
(...) ...so I guess this shouldn't be too surprising. But at the same time, like, man, it's *so* hard not to get fired up about this. The post at the top still says most of what I want to, but just... like, my opinion has settled now, and I still believe with all my heart that this thing is a postmodern masterpiece. It's this brilliant story of Heisei Rider being confronted by its own sins in the form of villains based on the Heisei Riders Who Aren't, while still making that a Zi-O story about the value of choosing your own path in life. It's loaded with very considered details, some of the best direction Tasaki has ever done, and tons of fun moments with characters I love. I simply couldn't imagine a more perfect celebration of everything Heisei Kamen Rider is, and everything that makes me love Zi-O so much. ...Which is why it was a bit of a bummer to see my dislike of this film categorized as "dismissive". I hope I didn't come off as not sincerely or fairly engaging with this movie? I definitely tried to approach it on its own terms, and I tried to be detailed in my criticisms. I never want anyone to think I'm being unfair to these projects, even the ones I have a hard time with. To maybe expand a bit on those criticisms: I FEEL LIKE THIS MOVIE IS YELLING AT ME TO LIKE THINGS I ALREADY LIKED There's an earnestness to this film's call to embrace the entirety of Heisei Rider that, at points, feels like badgering. It's like this movie came in with the theory that the viewer a) didn't like modern Rider, and b) certainly didn't care for the weirder elements. In an effort to forcibly correct that viewpoint, it ended up veering too far in the other direction, making me feel like I needed to love those things more than I've ever loved anything, rather than just enjoying a lot of different parts of the franchise. It was like: KAMEN RIDER IS ALLOWED TO BE WEIRD! Yeah, man, I know. One of my favorite things is the Faiz HBV. I'm good with weird! STOP DEMANDING THAT KAMEN RIDER WORK AS ONE CONTINUITY! I-- I wasn't? I don't love the post-series crossover content. I'm totally fine with each show doing its own thing. I sort of prefer it? KAMEN RIDER IS BIGGER THAN JUST TV SHOWS! Dude, I preordered that Kuuga manga. I'm going to be carrying the book at my store! I'm super psyched about it! IT'S OKAY FOR STORIES TO BE MESSY! It... yeah! It is! I never said it wasn't! I AM OKAY WITH THE METAPHOR; I AM LESS OKAY WITH THE METAPHOR OVERTAKING THE NARRATIVE This movie's messaging, about the beauty of a messy, ever-evolving franchise made up of dozens of unique creative voices, is one I am 100% behind. I'm never going to be mad at a writer who wants to communicate something through a Kamen Rider property. But the problem for me is that we're left to explore that messaging with thinly-drawn villains who don't get enough screentime to develop their point-of-view; with uneven pacing that creates a middle section where too many things happen without enough context; with a gigantic finale that loses multiple characters; with a movie that takes its message and obscure references as self-evident, rather than worth interrogating and explaining. There's a version of this film that I'd really like. It would be one that makes Barcklxs into a character that's more than just a glorified Shock Twist, and a story that slows itself down to try and better explain its thesis. I hope this comes off more even-handed than I guess it didn't before? I'm happy to keep talking about this weird movie!
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
05-09-2022, 02:18 PM | #1014 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,085
|
Quote:
KAMEN RIDER ZI-O: OVER QUARTZER
It?s all over the place, this thing. We start with a Mach guest-appearance, then spend some time in the Sengoku Period for some slapstick comedy, then find out that Everything We?ve Ever Known About Sougo Is Wrong (in a development that looks at the stupidity of Swartz?z plot from Episode 43 and says ?hold my beer?), then have a battle over Heisei?s sloppiness (???), then look at the aftereffects of the film?s plot and go Ha Ha WHO CARES. Tonally, it?s disorienting and unpleasant. It?s swinging wildly between insane extremes, never letting the audience get a handle on if the movie should be taken seriously or not. The only way to make it work would be to either ground it in character, or have a theme so transcendent that any plot defects are irrelevant. To paraphrase Sougo: Who cares if it's bumpy?! This isn't just a celebration of the Heisei Era. That's the metaphor to appeal to the audience who are already invested in Heisei, but it's also a celebration of individuality. I was excited to see Gou return and say his full catchphrase, it brought back fond memories of watching his story in Kamen Rider Drive. It's Sougo's history, but Gou's story doesn't stop there, he's still trying to revive Chaser. Sougo inherited the power of Heisei Rider, but we spent about 31-48 episodes with each of those Heisei Riders, seeing them learn and grow as people. Even if the timeline is littered with chaos, we can use that chaos to build a better future. That's the moral here. Not everything we've ever known about Sougo was wrong. As Oma Zi-O proves, he still succeeded in becoming king despite being used as a body double. Geiz and Woz came to the past to destroy and manipulate him respectively, only to be won over by his heroism, leading them to reject the consolidated yet hollow timeline the Quartzers were working for. We're not just confined to part of someone else's story, we can decide what we are for ourselves. I love the casting for ISSA as Tokiwa SOUGO. Not only does it add another OP singer to the list of movie villain Riders, but from certain angles, he does resemble an older Okuno, which makes it more believable for Sougo to be mistaken as SOUGO. His hatred of the messy Heisei Era makes him an effective foil to Sougo, who celebrates history and the wisdom to learn from it. The trip to 1575 is a great example of this, where Sougo gets to cheerfully show off his vast historical knowledge and his easygoing attitude towards Gyuuzou fabricating and dramatizing Nobunaga's biography based on Geiz's personality which is closer to the actual demon king (it's so ironic!). Of course, my only complaint with this is that Nobunaga's depiction here is totally different from his Parka Ghost self, but I'm willing to let that slide since it's in service of a story that is also very relevant to Sougo. There's lots of other cool stuff to praise here as well. The big coronation of Zi-O Oma Time and how he slices the hell out of those Dai Mazines with his giant golden energy swords! All the obscure wildcard Riders like G and Brain showing up for the climactic fight! That satisfying 20 Rider Kick recreating the original Heisei name announcement banner to destroy Barlckxs! The extremely catchy P.A.R.T.Y. theme! This movie is a highlight of Kamen Rider Zi-O for me and I couldn't imagine a more honest and extravagant way to honor the legacy of Heisei Rider and turn the page for Reiwa.
__________________
心 と 刃 |
05-09-2022, 03:51 PM | #1015 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
That's awesome! I'm super glad that this movie really resonated with some folks. It's only right for an anniversary show's Summer Movie to deliver a highly-concentrated burst of Kamen Rider excitement.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
05-09-2022, 05:25 PM | #1016 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
|
Quote:
it was a bit of a bummer to see my dislike of this film categorized as "dismissive". I hope I didn't come off as not sincerely or fairly engaging with this movie? I definitely tried to approach it on its own terms, and I tried to be detailed in my criticisms. I never want anyone to think I'm being unfair to these projects, even the ones I have a hard time with.
And hey, those expanded criticisms should even help me better explain the differences that probably exist in how we're approaching what the movie is doing, so, let me say from my perspective: I DON'T FEEL LIKE OVER QUARTZER IS REALLY *ABOUT* VIEWERS AT ALL It's not Heisei Generations Forever, after all. I said in that old review that this movie felt like a better realized version of that movie, but that was maybe an example of me being dismissive towards a movie I didn't connect with a ton. Especially after reading what you've had to say about it, Forever was very, very deeply concerned with fans, as a theme, and what Kamen Rider means to people. It's a film where crowds of excited children and nostalgic adults literally cheer on their favorite heroes during the climax. Over Quartzer, to me, it's not doing anything remotely like that. I called it a story about Heisei Kamen Rider being confronted by its own sins, and I think that's the best way I can put it. SOUGO and the Quartzers don't really represent particular viewer opinions to me (even though I've seen people dunk on Decade and Zi-O for very similar reasons!), so much as they simply represent fundamental bits of logic that Heisei Rider has willfully ignored. It is objectively incorrect to call Kuuga the first Kamen Rider of Japan's Heisei Era, even though it's also entirely correct to call him the first Heisei Kamen Rider. That's the significance of the motifs for the villains, and that's the sort of stuff I think the film is tackling. It never really came off to me like any of that thematic stuff was necessarily trying to correct viewer opinions, so much as it was simply exploring the depths of the franchise in ways no other Rider thing ever has. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THERE NEEDS TO BE A STRICT DISTINCTION BETWEEN METAPHOR AND NARRATIVE This one alone probably spells out why this movie clicked with me so much, but yeah. It just seems weird to me to draw such a hard line and consider the former this separate thing that's actively distracting from the latter. To me, the metaphor IS the narrative in this film, and that's evidently something I'm completely fine with. There's still a satisfying enough story in here for me about Sougo realizing how that metaphor does nothing to change his dreams, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest that the antagonistic force he's up against is nothing besides a metaphor. I think this is definitely the part of the movie we're both the most "right" about? Unlike with some of your other criticisms, I'm pretty sure we're both seeing exactly the same thing here, it's just that how we react to it is fundamentally different. I'm pretty sure I would actively like SOUGO and his cronies less if they were more fleshed out as people.
__________________
|
05-09-2022, 06:11 PM | #1017 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
This was all very helpful! I can't, y'know, get my brain to go there, but it's always fun to hear what other people are getting out of these shows. It's like being privy to a completely different band of data, stuff you can only see if you lived a different life. It's why these threads are something I love coming back to every day!
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
05-09-2022, 06:41 PM | #1018 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
|
Oh, for sure! The world of fiction would be a very scary and altogether more boring place if everyone had the exact same weird outlook on storytelling as me (and Shirakura). Having different perspectives is a very important thing!
__________________
|
05-09-2022, 07:21 PM | #1019 |
Kaiju or Hero?
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Even I Don't Know Anymore.
Posts: 1,397
|
Over Quartzer is a mess, but it is a beautiful mess.
Despite many odd choices, retconning, and chaos, I found myself loving this movie, especially during a time when many movies were just disappointing me. My main focus of unapologetic joy was when literally every Heisei Rider appeared, thanks to Oma form (which is a terrific form, by the way, not as grand and glorious as Grand, nor regal and magnificent as Oma Zi-O), and then the final Rider Kick where everyone's kicks were their show logos and spelling out Reiwa, was something I wanted to applaud and cheer when I saw that. Sure, the Drive tribute was just a cameo, the Sengoku plotline was kind of there (of course, I'm the fool who connected the young Nobunaga they meet as being similar to Sougo, almost meant to perfectly mirror the path Sougo would take in a way), and the Quartzers just show up to be the final big bad for team Zi-O (if for some insane, and paradoxal reason I decide to form a J-Pop band, that would absolutely be its name, and those Woz costumes would be our trademark). But maybe it's because, since I didn't see this until after Zi-O the Series concluded, I wasn't expecting this to be anything more than just one final Heisei Kamen Rider Kick to the face, and just decided to watch the chaos unfold, but I did end up liking this. I also like the idea of the Quartzer Riders being "other" Heisei Riders. Barlucx being Black RX, who is technically the first Heisei Rider (Heisei began in 1989), Zonjis being the Neo Showa Trilogy, Shin, ZO, and J (because they were the last Ishinomori worked on completely, they were still counted as Showa, though he did lay the groundwork for Kuuga, but passed away before it was finished), and Zamonas, based off Kamen Rider Amazons, the edgy reboot to end all edgy reboots (there's probably worse out there, then again, I never watched Amazons). It felt like a perfect fit for what is the end of the last Heisei Rider Season, to include the true start and offshoot of the Heisei Riders. It's no Heisei Generations Forever, but it's still something I found fun in, in spite of all the insanity and pent-up ideas that they might have otherwise thrown into Zi-O's show, I still have a soft spot for this movie regardless. |
05-09-2022, 07:30 PM | #1020 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
|
It's definitely a movie that unreservedly loves Heisei Rider, which is worth something all on its own.
__________________
Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! |
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:12 AM.
|