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07-03-2021, 04:20 PM | #751 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
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He definitely miscalculates here!
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But Otoya isn't against Wataru joining the fight, he's against being left out of the fight, against letting his son poach his destiny. Their motivations aren't comparable either. Wataru wants to be erased from history, while Otoya wants to be immortalized by it. Dark Kiva is a symbol of Otoya's pride and the apex of his strong feelings, the same way Emperor is for Wataru. That's why Maya couldn't stand in his way, since she knows this is something he has to do. Wataru sees him the same way he sees Mio, as somebody who needs to be saved. But that's wrong. Mio chose how to live. Otoya chose how to live. It's not Wataru's place to deny that, despite his good intention. You mentioned before that staying true to your identity is generally a good thing, so shouldn't Otoya's authenticity be encouraged as well?
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"You're wrong, Wataru. You just want to escape from the suffering you're feeling. It's wrong that you're even in this time to begin with. Do you plan on coming to the past every time you make a mistake?"
...And then Wataru of course brushes this off and it would presumably lead in to the scene of him and King fighting shortly thereafter. Considering Wataru didn't make the choice to come to the past, and the exact nature of his plan means he'll only have to the one time, it's maybe not the most accurate dialogue to his situation in-universe, but it's a perfect summation of what the viewer is meant to be taking away from Wataru's current struggle. He's filled with all this regret he doesn't know to live with, how to make it a part of him and move on, but because it's a toku show, when he wishes he could change history, he gets that chance literally, and it's kind of great? It's a story about Wataru deciding his life holds so little value the universe would be better without him in it, and it really tears into that entire line of thinking at every turn to make a point about how misguided it is.
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07-03-2021, 10:42 PM | #752 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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KAMEN RIDER KIVA EPISODE 46 - “FULL STOP: GOODBYE, OTOYA”
There’s some stuff in here with Megumi and Nago, where she’s unsure if he’s matured enough to lead W.A.K.E.U.P. There’s some stuff in here about Bishop, and how he’s unleashed the End Of Series Army on the world so that he can destroy anyone else who would lay claim to the Fangire throne. There’s some later stuff in the episode, where Wataru has found a new level of strength (physical and emotional) as a result of his most recent crisis of faith, and how his resolve to protect people has solidified. A lot of nice little storylines as we head into the final two episodes. But this is the one where Otoya dies, and that’s all we’re going to talk about. It’s a strong ending for him, alternately intense, funny, and sweet. It manages to encapsulate a series worth of growth into a few beautifully-done scenes, and make a contradictory free-spirit seem definable and coherent. For someone who hated being pigeon-holed, this episode makes his roles as father, friend, lover and hero undeniable. It’s the fatherhood that comes across first, thanks to Otoya’s thrilling team-up with Wataru. Possibly besting their movie partnership, there’s so much to love about their matching costumes and mirrored stances. I ordered a Dark Kiva figure a little while ago, from site sponsor Tokullectibles. When the suit appeared in the show, I’m like, Okay, I Guess I Bought A Villain Suit. But now? Now it’s going to be my Otoya suit. (IXA was always going to be Nago. I mean, come on.) Seeing him take on the Dark Kiva power for a third and final time, because he couldn’t do anything less when the people he loved were at risk? An epic move. It’s also his first and last lesson to his son, which is only the beginning of this show giving Otoya heartbreaking lines. Wataru spends a bunch of time over the series trying to understand his father, and in turn understand himself. But there on that shore, it all clicks into place. You fight to protect the people you love. That’s it. It’s that simple. Otoya’s a hero because he protects what he loves, and he loves people. He loves so, so many people. (Arguably too many, if you’ve been dating him!) If the people Otoya loves are in jeopardy, he will never stop trying to protect them. Doesn’t matter if it’ll kill him. He won’t let himself die until he keeps his loved ones safe. It clarifies things for Wataru, in a way he’s able to take back with him to the future. When Shizuka and Megumi are in danger, Wataru (not Kiva, Wataru) rushes to their aid, scaring off Fangires with a look of steely determination. It all comes from his dad, imperfect though he was. He maybe only directly taught his son one lesson, but it’s maybe the most important lesson he could ever teach him. It multiplies Otoya’s sacrifice, since it averts a tragedy in 1986 and gives Wataru the courage to hopefully prevent one in 2008. Otoya never really got to raise his son, but he still managed to be a good father. The couple scenes he spends with his friends, though, those hit me the hardest. The one with Yuri… man. It’s a Goodbye scene, even if no one says it. Otoya wasn’t a great boyfriend, but he managed to be an okay friend to Yuri. She’s happy to have known him, happy with the person she is after their break-up. They tease each other, in the way only exes on good terms can. He wants to know how she made her only-decent omelette rice, an acknowledgement that something imperfect can have sentimental value greater than its measurable qualities. She teases him that her secret ingredient was poison, before tearfully confessing that it was love. The whole scene is like the other half to their breakup from a couple episodes ago. That was Yuri finding strength in her ability to let Otoya go, and her happiness that he found true love. Here, it’s her letting herself grieve their relationship a little. She’s cried before at Otoya’s betrayal, but in this scene she’s mourning the loss of that time in her life. She’s also mourning Otoya, even if she isn’t consciously aware of it. Jiro figures it out pretty fast, though. He’s seen plenty of dying people in his life. (Also, Otoya is, uh, literally vanishing, so there’s that.) Jiro and the other Arms Monsters are considering making a break for it, leaving the rampaging Castle Doran to whomever, going back to looking out for themselves. And it’s Otoya who convinces them to care about other people, both generally (living in Castle Doran would keep it from killing everyone) and personally (watching over Wataru). They started this series looking for survival and a small amount of vengeance, and they end it as Wataru’s Three Crazy Uncles who live in a dragon cathedral. The fact that it occurred because of Otoya is, frankly, stunning. Otoya’s an almost impossibly broad caricature of a man. He’s irrepressible, if you’re feeling generous, and chaotic, if you aren’t. But he managed to live his life in a way that convinced other people to find reasons to love, and to sacrifice. He held to his principles, and fought for his convictions, and it caused evil monsters and taciturn warriors to become hopeful heroes. He didn’t do it by being a non-stop paragon of justice, or even an all-the-time good man. He did it by showing people the joy of living your life honestly, and the rewards of choosing to love openly. Which brings us to Maya. She’s lost so much from knowing Otoya. She watched her husband die. She lost her station, and her powers. She’ll be hounded for decades by angry Fangires. She'll end up having to give away both of her sons to protect them. All she got for all that hardship was a few short weeks with the man she loved. It seems worth it? The point of love isn’t quantity, it’s quality. The sacrifices both Maya and Otoya make for their love, it’s like a rebuttal to the last two episodes of Wataru’s journey to the past. Everything ends. Sometimes relationships end faster than we’d like. Sometimes we make sacrifices for love. Sometimes you get just a little bit, and you pay for it for a long time. But if it's real love, true love, having it at all is a miracle. You can't count it in days, because it'll last forever. My mom married my dad, and three years later he died of cancer. I was 2 when he died. She kept his name. A few years later she remarried, and we changed our name. It didn’t last. They divorced. And she took my dad’s name again, instead of her maiden name. There’s this connection she had with him, something that was always going to be a testament to their love, and it was me. That sounds sappy and saccharine, but I believe it. As long as I was there, with my dad’s name, there was some part of their love that endured. It was brief, in terms of how long it’s been since he died. But a week ago, on Father’s Day, she wanted to talk about him. So seeing Maya there with Otoya in the park, their brief but brilliant affair about to end; acknowledging that their love would go on forever, and a son would be the proof of that… man, that felt like something made just for me, some part of Kamen Rider Kiva I’ll always be able to cherish. Inoue Forever. Otoya Forever. Love Forever.
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07-03-2021, 11:28 PM | #753 |
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Inoue Forever. Otoya Forever. Love Forever.
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07-03-2021, 11:33 PM | #754 |
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KAMEN RIDER KIVA EPISODE 43 - “WEDDING MARCH: A TIME OF PARTING”
Centering half of the story on Shima, a character the show never spent time on, and then letting Taiga kill him off to anger Wataru… why? Why make such a huge deal about Shima’s views on Fangires, when it’s never felt relevant to a story? We never really got the feeling that Shima was anything more than a soldier. The last couple episodes have tried to reinvent him as a genocidal fanatic, but that’s super recent and barely explained. His backstory with Taiga would maybe enhance it, but it’s just never given the specificity and history to come across as anything other than some late-game retcon. When the show previously wanted to tell a story about a fanatical good guy who realized that Wataru was more than just his Fangire heritage, they chose Nago, so it mattered and it worked. To contrive this ridiculous story about Shima, all to say nice things to Wataru (a kid he had maybe four scenes with in the entire series), and then get killed by Saga in the middle of the episode… it doesn’t work! It’s too rushed, too inconsequential. It’s a waste of time. Quote:
It was a scene I was laughing at (TAIGA’S HAIR!!!), and that just kept going when Mio just up and stabs Taiga in the guts. The little blue blood that comes out of the wound, and Mio staring at her hands, and her screaming I’M SORRY… I laughed hard. Nothing about the score or the acting contained even a trace of subtlety or nuance, and it could easily pass for parody. I loved Mari in Faiz, and this level of work is beneath that actor.
It’s all so broad, this entire episode. It’s big melodramatic moments that feel completely untethered from the dramatic stakes of the show, and are working in a totally different cadence than what Kiva has been using for the last 42 episodes. Worse, it’s really all stuff that only matters in how it affects Wataru, and he’s mostly sidelined in this episode. Shima doesn’t exactly mean anything to him personally, so the one scene they have was, like, Tell It To The Dog. Tell that dog you were proud of him, because that relationship is established. The Mio/Taiga wedding should be a huge deal to multiple characters, but a) Wataru never even finds out about it, and b) it’s treated like the third-most important subplot in this episode. It’s something the show has been building towards literally since Taiga’s debut, and then all of a sudden it’s some weird thrown-off moment. Quote:
Nominally, it explains Mio’s decision at the end of the episode, but I didn’t buy that for a single second. Taiga’s decision to spare her made sense. This is a guy who desperately wants to believe that he is loved, even if he has to get his guts pulled out to prove it. He also has based his entire sense of self-worth on being King of the Fangires, so he is heavily motivated to salvage his relationship with Mio. (Also, trying to kill your loved ones is a pretty big part of Fangire culture, so maybe this didn’t mean the same thing to Taiga as it meant to Mio?) So Taiga denying Mio’s attempt on his life? I buy that. I do not buy Mio sacrificing herself to save Taiga for even a fraction of a goddamn second. It’s utterly incomprehensible, and I am always willing to give Inoue the benefit of the doubt when it comes to character motivations. Mio hated Taiga! She loved Wataru! Wataru wasn’t crazy about her wanting him to kill Taiga, but it’s not like they broke up or anything. There’s no reason, in this episode, for her to risk her life to save Taiga’s. It’s a decision that doesn’t make sense to me at all.
And now, since she died in process, we’ll likely get Wataru feeling monumentally guilty about something that wasn’t his fault, and Taiga swearing revenge for something that wasn’t Wataru’s fault. (Like, Mio doesn’t do anything to try to stop this fight before jumping in front of a finisher! She doesn’t plead with them first, or anything sensible. She just dives in front of a Wake Up Fever! That is like trying to put out a fire by diving on top of it. Not that helpful!) I mean why would you claim Wataru feels guilt for something not his fault? I mean Wataru of course would be devastated at the loss of Mio, potentially his love. This is just another trauma Wataru had to go through with, like his half-Fangire nature, the betrayal of Dai-chan, etc. I'd agree though Mio diving at a finishing move isn't an optimal move... but many sacrifice moves are done this way... jumping your whole body to the attack instead, though actually the question I have is if Queen dies at such quick rate like that (I forgot if there's a failed finisher before). Otherwise well, Mio's death is something that fanbase can see as KR mistreating females. It seems like a sudden last decision change for Mio to shield Taiga... I mean Mio plotted to kill Taiga herself, using the wedding as the means to do so. I guess Taiga being nice to Mio is the closest excuse for her to return the favor, that Taiga still covers for her despite her attempts to kill Taiga and letting her escape, and while Mio still won't love Taiga romantically, this probably dispells her hatred for him. Quote:
It bummed me out so much that I can barely muster any enthusiasm for the 1986 stuff. That was generally okay, even if it’s sort of rushing through plot developments. Maya hearing Otoya’s song while Yuri couldn’t was a great touch, but I wish the scene of Maya losing her powers wasn’t something that happened without Yuri and Otoya around. It’s the same problem I had with the Mio/Taiga wedding, where it’s this huge moment the show has been building up to.. and then it just happens in isolation, like it’s ticked off of a checklist and that’s all that mattered.
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07-03-2021, 11:49 PM | #755 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
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I mean why would you claim Wataru feels guilt for something not his fault? I mean Wataru of course would be devastated at the loss of Mio, potentially his love. This is just another trauma Wataru had to go through with, like his half-Fangire nature, the betrayal of Dai-chan, etc. I'd agree though Mio diving at a finishing move isn't an optimal move... but many sacrifice moves are done this way... jumping your whole body to the attack instead, though actually the question I have is if Queen dies at such quick rate like that (I forgot if there's a failed finisher before).
It's not that I think he'd love her less or anything. It just makes her more vulnerable, and it's a huge sacrifice she has to make to love Otoya. It would've been nice if he had been present to witness it, is all.
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07-04-2021, 01:23 AM | #756 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,410
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Man, I had forgotten how good these last two episodes are. I still think Wataru's motivations are silly, but I had forgotten the payoff that we're getting here: a version of Wataru that's confident and determined in his actions. I really wish it hadn't taken so long to get here, because this is a version of the character that I actually do quite like.
But yeah, this latest episode is all Otoya. Even during my most anti-Kiva moods, the one thing I will always give the show is that Otoya's arc is fantastic. This man who knowingly sacrificed his life for his family, who stopped to say goodbye to the woman whose heart he broke, who earned his rivals respect enough to get a vow from him... all of this started with '80s Japanese Jean-Ralphio. It wasn't a smooth ride to get here, but we got to see him grow from a lecherous creep whose self-centeredness ruined lives, to someone who changed people for the better. He could still be the worst, but god damn it, he was the best. |
07-04-2021, 02:40 AM | #757 |
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Posts: 2,546
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Well here we are, at the end of the 86/87 segments. And seeing how their end leads into the beginning of the 08/09 segments, here’s a song by Wataru and Otoya entitled “Beginning”, the finale to the Message trilogy.
One thing I love about this episode (besides the pathos to Otoya’s eponymous goodbye) is the scene where Wataru is able to scare Fangires away just be being there. I like the idea that the hero is the thing that monsters are scared of, as opposed to them treating him like he doesn’t exists, even when he’s been thoroughly thwarting their plots for a long time. |
07-04-2021, 02:40 AM | #758 |
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Posts: 2,546
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Well here we are, at the end of the 86/87 segments. And seeing how their end leads into the beginning of the 08/09 segments, here’s a song by Wataru and Otoya entitled “Beginning”, the finale to the Message trilogy.
One thing I love about this episode (besides the pathos to Otoya’s eponymous goodbye) is the scene where Wataru is able to scare Fangires away just be being there. I like the idea that the hero is the thing that monsters are scared of, as opposed to them treating him like he doesn’t exists, even when he’s been thoroughly thwarting their plots for a long time. |
07-04-2021, 10:16 AM | #759 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
But yeah, this latest episode is all Otoya. Even during my most anti-Kiva moods, the one thing I will always give the show is that Otoya's arc is fantastic. This man who knowingly sacrificed his life for his family, who stopped to say goodbye to the woman whose heart he broke, who earned his rivals respect enough to get a vow from him... all of this started with '80s Japanese Jean-Ralphio. It wasn't a smooth ride to get here, but we got to see him grow from a lecherous creep whose self-centeredness ruined lives, to someone who changed people for the better. He could still be the worst, but god damn it, he was the best.
But, yeah, the best. Agreed. Quote:
One thing I love about this episode (besides the pathos to Otoya’s eponymous goodbye) is the scene where Wataru is able to scare Fangires away just be being there. I like the idea that the hero is the thing that monsters are scared of, as opposed to them treating him like he doesn’t exists, even when he’s been thoroughly thwarting their plots for a long time.
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07-04-2021, 11:38 AM | #760 |
The Immortal King Tasty
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One more choice that's practically gift-wrapped for me, it's Otoya's Étude, the second of two whole pieces of music genius musician Otoya plays in the show, and, as you might expect, the music that closes out this episode.
Jokes aside, he really was pretty okay in the end, wasn't he? There's not much I could add to what you said about this one. It really ties Otoya and the whole legacy he left behind together, and it becomes this thing were you can look back and understand why Wataru leans on him so much for strength in a way you never could've at the start of the show. One thing that seriously helps a big emotional episode like this out is that, as with all three of the show's last episodes, it's directed by Ishida, who always puts a ton of care into this sort of thing. The moment during the fight with King where it suddenly becomes Wataru and Otoya for a second instead of Kiva and Dark Kiva, that's a neat trick to let the actors sell the feelings of the characters that I've seen him pull as recently as Saber. And there are other things I'd imagine were his ideas, too, like Otoya climbing up those rocks to pretend he's not in pain when saying goodbye to Wataru, that really add to the tone of the scenes here. Another favorite of mine is how the focus keeps Otoya and Jirou separated so completely at the end of their conversation. And then there's just all the stuff in this episode that's plain awesome, like the father/son Double Kiva Rider Kick, or Nago's continuing rivalry with Bishop where he's shouting epic heroic nonsense about being the world's hope or whatever, because, as always, that's our 753. Pretty crucial episode for Kiva to get right, so I'm really glad it landed so well for you, Die.
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