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12-21-2021, 02:33 PM | #161 |
Kaiju or Hero?
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Even I Don't Know Anymore.
Posts: 1,397
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I can't dislike Fourze. His movies, show, characters are always such a blast that I always leave them having had a great time.
Of course, while I don't dislike it as much as I've made it sound, but having some of Ishinomori's classic heroes be repurposed for villains is a little left field. I know they're different enough, and that people probably don't remember some of them, let alone care about them (save for Kikaider, who's still immensely popular), but having seen some of their backstories, via Toei Tousatsu World (who also seem to have permanently added the W Summer Movie), I feel a little tweaked about the characterization now that I know them better. Though, that doesn't change the fact that I liked this movie! It's clear Toei saw some Hollywood action blockbusters and thought to add everything they thought was cool from them and shoved them into this movie. From the bus battle, space, and road rally moon battle, they went all out in the action here, and that's not a bad thing and fits Fourze's themes rather nicely. It's everything a thrill-seeking teenager wants in a movie! And here's where Kamen Rider Wizard made his debut, and gosh does he not have one of my favorite designs of all time, that and his theme song. I love how he just adopts Kamen Rider because it sounded cool, which admittedly is something a lot of these Rider cameos tend to do, then flexes on Fourze's bad guys. What a guy! Gentarou really can be friends with anyone, even giant death robots. No matter how dumb it might sound on paper, it always works in a way that I can't help but enjoy. |
12-21-2021, 10:27 PM | #162 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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I think that's the thing that makes even the dumbest Fourze concept work: Gentarou's purity as a character. OOO was sort of defined by Eiji's hidden turmoil and Ankh's brusqueness. Wizard was defined by Haruto's confidence and mystery. But Fourze's all about Gentarou's enthusiasm and honesty, and that creates a core that nearly any dumb story can orbit around without diminishing your enjoyment. Gentarou's character (and the actor's charisma) is just unbreakable.
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12-24-2021, 02:22 PM | #163 |
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KAMEN RIDER X KAMEN RIDER WIZARD & FOURZE: MOVIE WAR ULTIMATUM (DIRECTOR’S CUT)
I think, at the end of the day, I appreciate what these two stories were trying to say. They’re both broadly about getting out of the way for the next generation. It’s a theme that fits Fourze a little better, which is why the Fourze section is a little more thematically-grounded. The Kaijin Alliance are a group of kids who are horrified by what the previous generation has left for them, and pessimistic on their own chances for happiness. Gentarou’s story is centered on his need to step back and let that next generation see that they’re in control of their own destinies, rather than operating at the whims of manipulative scientists or over-protective teachers. The only way the next generation can become the best versions of themselves is when they feel like their future is truly in their hands. The Wizard section sort of hits on the same issues, where Poitrine is a character that disregards her responsibilities to indulge her own desires. She should be a guardian of children, but she’s too wrapped up in her deferred dreams to be of much real help. Her story is one of adulthood, the realization that you eventually need to be okay with how your life turned out and find some way to help the next generation along. It’s a sort of Wizard take on Fourze’s themes of growing up, where Poitrine’s depression and need to relive her childhood dreams risks destroying the people around here. That’s unique ground for a Kamen Rider movie to cover, because it has a kind of maturity to it. It’s a story for the adults in the audience. Or, at least, it’s a story more about the adult anxieties of the production team. This whole movie is about how to protect children, and when to step back from protecting them, and how to live with the idea that it’s someone else’s turn. That’s nothing a kid is ever going to care about. It’s a perspective that only comes with age, and that makes for an interesting Kamen Rider movie. Thematically, I think this movie has a lot to recommend it. Narratively and structurally, though… um. The Fourze section has the roughest patch in it, where, again, I appreciate what it’s trying to say. Saburou is a villain who’s just lashing out from loneliness, and he needs someone his own age to tell him he’s worth befriending. It’s just, it’s a resolution that’s asking everyone around Saburou to bend over backwards to make him feel better, when he barely does anything to warrant it. It needs Miyoppe – who is victimized by Saburou – to ask for Saburou’s forgiveness for… I’m not even sure what? It’s Saburou who’s constantly harassing and endangering her, while she’s solely focused on her own goals and activities. It’s like she’s being penalized for not thinking enough about how the surly asshole in her class is feeling, selfishly focusing on her own happiness, and it’s gross? It’s a little gross, the way she’s made to bear responsibility for her bully. It’s preaching a moral that wants to say Sometimes Mean People Just Need Compassion, but it definitely comes off as Maybe You Had It Coming. Not a fan of that! The other big thing that people are probably going to kick about from the Fourze part of this movie is Gentarou throwing away his Fourze Driver, and I’m of two minds on it. On the one hand, it’s completely the sort of Big Dumb Gesture that Gentarou would make. He’s someone who is very focused on the current interaction, and he’ll gladly toss away everything Fourze accomplished if it means getting through to one struggling teenager. On the other hand, the plot immediately shows what a short-sighted maneuver this is, since Gentarou needs to borrow a Fourze Driver if he’s going to save the world. There’s some obvious calculus here, about the needs of the many versus the needs of the one, and I get why Gentarou throwing away an apocalypse-averting piece of gear would bother folks. I think it works for the character, but I wish it was being done for a kid who maybe deserved it more? Gentarou’s throwing away a hero that saved millions of lives for a grumpy bully who’s making himself the victim. I don’t love that trade? The Wizard section… boy. I really loved about 99% of it. The idea of Poitrine drawing strength from her love of toku, but needing to find a healthy way to incorporate it into her adult life? YES. Relatable! But, wow, to sort of it toss it all aside for a Gay Panic joke? When (and I know this was never going to happen in a million years) you actually have a sort of poignant trans metaphor to work with, something that could speak to a whole group of kids watching toku that never thought they’d get a chance to see something that spoke to their experience or perspective? It’s heartbreaking. It’s a great story about identity and expression and how hard it can be to not see yourself in the stories you love and how we get to pull the parts we want out of toku to make something just for us and how being an adult means keeping some of that love for toku out of sight… and then you find out its written by someone who thinks gay people are a joke, and that sucks. It super sucks. Those disappointments aside, I think the movie works okay. It’s a Sakamoto joint, so the action is top-notch. (Folks complained about his male-gaze-y direction before, but this was the movie where I found it too distracting. Every girl in a skirt needed a close-up and slow-mo shot of her twirling skirt! There were a bunch of Nadeshiko butt bumps! Inga Blink was perpetually glistening!) Every Heisei Phase 2 Rider makes a return appearance, even if it’s just the main hero suit and zero dialogue. Eiji’s here, because Eiji’s cool. We get modern-day refreshes on classic Ishinomori characters. There’s a massive Mad Max-esque vehicle fight that lasts about as long as a Mad Max movie. It’s a gigantic action film with a ton of cool-looking characters, whatever its other failings. I wish I liked this movie more. There are ideas and themes that I think are smart and original, but the execution tells me that the writers didn’t know what they had. Good attempt, bad follow-through.
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12-24-2021, 03:20 PM | #164 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,407
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Never forget Gentaro saying that the belt is his dear friend and then immediately chucking it in lava. Being friends with Gentaro is a terrible idea.
Also why did this movie need to be over two hours long?? Didn't like this movie. It's currently at the bottom of the list for Kamen Rider crossovers for me.
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12-24-2021, 03:49 PM | #165 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,098
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Like I said before in the Kabuto thread, Movie War Ultimatum is my favorite Movie War and also my overall favorite Kamen Rider movie, so of course I can't think of a better way to spend Christmas Eve than giving lots of praise to one of the best winter movies I've ever seen!
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KAMEN RIDER X KAMEN RIDER WIZARD & FOURZE: MOVIE WAR ULTIMATUM (DIRECTOR?S CUT)
The Fourze section has the roughest patch in it, where, again, I appreciate what it?s trying to say. Saburou is a villain who?s just lashing out from loneliness, and he needs someone his own age to tell him he?s worth befriending. It?s just, it?s a resolution that?s asking everyone around Saburou to bend over backwards to make him feel better, when he barely does anything to warrant it. It needs Miyoppe ? who is victimized by Saburou ? to ask for Saburou?s forgiveness for? I?m not even sure what? It?s Saburou who?s constantly harassing and endangering her, while she?s solely focused on her own goals and activities. It?s like she?s being penalized for not thinking enough about how the surly asshole in her class is feeling, selfishly focusing on her own happiness, and it?s gross? It?s a little gross, the way she?s made to bear responsibility for her bully. It?s preaching a moral that wants to say Sometimes Mean People Just Need Compassion, but it definitely comes off as Maybe You Had It Coming. Not a fan of that! Quote:
The other big thing that people are probably going to kick about from the Fourze part of this movie is Gentarou throwing away his Fourze Driver, and I?m of two minds on it. On the one hand, it?s completely the sort of Big Dumb Gesture that Gentarou would make. He?s someone who is very focused on the current interaction, and he?ll gladly toss away everything Fourze accomplished if it means getting through to one struggling teenager. On the other hand, the plot immediately shows what a short-sighted maneuver this is, since Gentarou needs to borrow a Fourze Driver if he?s going to save the world. There?s some obvious calculus here, about the needs of the many versus the needs of the one, and I get why Gentarou throwing away an apocalypse-averting piece of gear would bother folks. I think it works for the character, but I wish it was being done for a kid who maybe deserved it more? Gentarou?s throwing away a hero that saved millions of lives for a grumpy bully who?s making himself the victim. I don?t love that trade?
Quote:
The Wizard section? boy. I really loved about 99% of it. The idea of Poitrine drawing strength from her love of toku, but needing to find a healthy way to incorporate it into her adult life? YES. Relatable! But, wow, to sort of it toss it all aside for a Gay Panic joke? When (and I know this was never going to happen in a million years) you actually have a sort of poignant trans metaphor to work with, something that could speak to a whole group of kids watching toku that never thought they?d get a chance to see something that spoke to their experience or perspective? It?s heartbreaking. It?s a great story about identity and expression and how hard it can be to not see yourself in the stories you love and how we get to pull the parts we want out of toku to make something just for us and how being an adult means keeping some of that love for toku out of sight? and then you find out its written by someone who thinks gay people are a joke, and that sucks. It super sucks.
Quote:
Those disappointments aside, I think the movie works okay. It?s a Sakamoto joint, so the action is top-notch. (Folks complained about his male-gaze-y direction before, but this was the movie where I found it too distracting. Every girl in a skirt needed a close-up and slow-mo shot of her twirling skirt! There were a bunch of Nadeshiko butt bumps! Inga Blink was perpetually glistening!) Every Heisei Phase 2 Rider makes a return appearance, even if it?s just the main hero suit and zero dialogue. Eiji?s here, because Eiji?s cool. We get modern-day refreshes on classic Ishinomori characters. There?s a massive Mad Max-esque vehicle fight that lasts about as long as a Mad Max movie. It?s a gigantic action film with a ton of cool-looking characters, whatever its other failings.
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12-24-2021, 04:17 PM | #166 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,577
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This was a pretty alright movie for me... I think it ranks at 9 out of 11 for me in terms of like all the Winter Movies that have aired.
The action was kind of funny to me because I was recalling the tanker sequence the other day with the Riders trying to beat the hell out of it. And then I see a gif of a bunch of Showa Riders dogpiling and punching a tank. So I guess this is just another Showa Reference in a pile of Showa References. Honestly though they should have made one move Nadeshiko's signature while going forward. No butt attacks, no, give her the neck snaps. I still find it insane how brutal she was in Megamax when she did that to a Dustard. Otherwise not much else to say about the movie other than uh... wow the ending to the Wizard segment isn't that great. I get what they were trying to go for but wow did they not stick the landing for this. |
12-24-2021, 06:02 PM | #167 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,418
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I rewatched most of this earlier this year to wrap up my Fourze revisit. I skipped the Wizard section at the time, so I don't remember much of it outside of the reveal of Poitine's real identity at the end, which... yeah, it's problematic. I get that different cultures have different views on LGBT people and Japan is not on the most enlightened end of the scale. It's still pretty bad, though, and it's still kind of a problem. There are better representations of queer characters in some of the recent stuff, but there's still at least one project that sticks Metal Yoshida in a dress as if the basic concept is the funniest thing ever.
I did like the Fourze part. They really doubled down on the epilogue nature with the jump into the future and I liked a lot of what we saw of the KRC in the far flung distant future of 2017. I loved that Miu is still hardcore dodging Shun, I loved that Ryusei and Nozoma are together (when he's not being a secret agent with a perpetually damp Inga Brink), and I love that Yuki is barely in the film. The movie does go maybe a bit too hard on the Ishinomori remakes between Akumaizer 3 and Inazuman, but it mostly works. The gag with future Gentarou asking his past self for the Fourze Driver and past Genatoru's reaction is still one of my favorite single jokes in all of Kamen Rider. The final team up did disappoint me, though. After Mega Max brought back Shotaro and Philip, this was the first time we had to deal with (lowercase G) ghost suits. Even Eiji having a quick walk-on doesn't make up for W, Accel, and Birth being obvious stand-ins. I don't mind too much when you have a lot of Riders doing general cameos in the full team-up movies, but when it's a smaller cast they really stick out like a sore thumb. Add that to the fact that the film's climax was just a lot of motorcycle jumps in front of a truck and I found the whole thing pretty lackluster. Also, Fusion States with skis is easily one of the dumbest Rider forms ever. Finally, to quote myself again: Quote:
Oh, and speaking of Sakamoto...
When I rewatched the Fourze summer movie I said that it was the definitive Koichi Sakamoto film. I stand by that, but this movie is a great example of what happens when he cuts loose and does whatever he wants. There. Are. So. Many. Slow. Motion. Close-ups. Of. Twirling. Skirts. Set. To. Harp. Music. It's incredibly distracting and that's with skipping the entire Poitrine section, which I know had even more of them. Between that and someone deciding that Mikie Hara should be hosed down before most of her scenes this film definitely crossed over into fetish territory. I'm not kink-shaming here, but sometimes you need to reign it in on what is ostensibly a fucking children's movie. |
12-24-2021, 06:04 PM | #168 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Eiji walking in for two seconds and then not even voice OOO in the next fight was just really really funny. Why did they even bother lol
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12-24-2021, 06:37 PM | #169 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: World of Ataru
Posts: 857
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I remember feeling this movie for just how long it was.
But my biggest gripe is the same with the last one they made the Akumaizer 3 the bad guys just like what they did with Kyodain siblings. Except their whole shitck was that they were demons who defected and fought for humanity. So this one is even worst as a result because it misses the entire point of the original show moreso than Kyodain did. It's probably one of my least favorite trends to come out of Kamen Rider and I'm glad it didn't catch on
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Last edited by GrandComplete; 12-24-2021 at 06:40 PM.. |
12-24-2021, 09:08 PM | #170 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
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It's not so much that Miyoppe is being wrongfully blamed for Saburou's behavior, more like Gentarou's encouraging her to exercise empathy and look beneath the surface to see that Saburou is actually suffering inside. It's not just Miyoppe who learns from this, as Saburou realizes how his actions were misguided and makes peace with the old humans.
If the movie wanted to go for a thing where she had to show compassion to Saburou, sure. If he was apologetic and she forgave him, okay. But he is mid-rampage and she has to apologize to him for not... I still don't get what. Taking his abuse with more of a smile? It's a very big ask of the audience, and the movie doesn't do a lot to make Miyoppe look like less of a doormat. Quote:
There is some meta payoff to this though. Yu's actress Kaba-chan completed her sex change transition sometime after Wizard ended. Which means she no longer identifies as a gay dude, but a straight girl instead. While the moral is good, I will admit that the delivery does kind of get a little diminished in the end, due to Haruto's typical insensitivity.
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The final team up did disappoint me, though. After Mega Max brought back Shotaro and Philip, this was the first time we had to deal with (lowercase G) ghost suits. Even Eiji having a quick walk-on doesn't make up for W, Accel, and Birth being obvious stand-ins. I don't mind too much when you have a lot of Riders doing general cameos in the full team-up movies, but when it's a smaller cast they really stick out like a sore thumb.
Quote:
I feel like after this movie, there's more of a sense of not over-promising with the Legend Rider appearances. If you can get an actor back in front of the camera or in a recording booth, their Rider can be upfront. If you can't, they're only in crowd shots. Quote:
But my biggest gripe is the same with the last one they made the Akumaizer 3 the bad guys just like what they did with Kyodain siblings. Except their whole shitck was that they were demons who defected and fought for humanity. So this one is even worst as a result because it misses the entire point of the original show moreso than Kyodain did. It's probably one of my least favorite trends to come out of Kamen Rider and I'm glad it didn't catch on
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