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05-15-2022, 07:31 PM | #1101 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,585
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Okay so yeah, I can echo and say this was also just a really nice and fun episode. A lot of really cool character beats and stuff happening here. Like can I just say I adore the use of Trinity in this? This is my favorite moment of Trinity managing to catch Oma by surprise. Like Oma doesn't lose but this is still a really good moment because you can see him visibly surprised by this, and I just love how it's this form that was never meant to be, born on the Day of Oma via friendship that catches Oma Zi-O off guard.
Oma Zi-O is also still pretty interesting but that's a TED Talk for next time. Also that seen between Sougo and his Uncle was really nice. If there?s one thing I really love from this final set of episodes, it's their interactions. That being said, Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi! Took them long enough! I would have done it during the Agito Arc if you were asking my opinion about the timing with that. Other than that we get some neat apocalypse stuff and that's about it? but! It's time I talk about 47's revelation and how I interpreted it a lot differently due to the info we get in 48. Mostly because the way I see it, 48 put things in perspective and this is so long I actually prepped this the night before as to get my thoughts in order and also so I could post it as soon as I could. Zero's Zi-O Weird Theory Ted Talk So to start, this is a modified version of a previous post back when Zi-O aired but here's what I gleamed from these penultimate episodes and how I interpreted aspects of not only Zi-O but Decade as well. This is going off a lot of context clues and mostly what we've been shown so you know, there might be some holes but this is why the revelation in 47 did not bother me, especially when 48 laid things out on the table so to speak (literally and figuratively lol). In 2058 in a different world, Swartz and Tsukuyomi are members of a royal family. Swartz discovers there are multiple worlds all out there and that his world is going to decay and be destroyed due to not having a protector while the others do. Now note I use the term protector because while people bring up the Shinkenger argument, the Shinkenger's while not being Riders still serve the same role regardless. They're like a Rider Expy, this world seemingly has no one in it to act like that. Now then to prevent the collapse of his world and be herald as his world's savior and king he wants to merge a bunch all together then have them destroyed so his world is the only world left but needs a catalyst. Remember at this point in time in Swartz' perspective, the worlds are split and separate with different Riders in them. They also don't deliberately say who belongs to what world which I think is the key to having a flexible mindset about this. So he travels to 2009 and gives Sougo a piece of his powers, and as a result Sougo begins to draw the Rider worlds together that already exist, basically Showa to Kiva and probably some AR Worlds here and there. This essentially starts kicking off the plot of Decade where like, worlds are just randomly crashing into each other for some reason. This is where Decade comes in and while Decade is a mess, his role is simple? "Decade has no story?" In a sense that's true because his role is simply a means to an end, a tool for stabilizing the Rider Worlds as he runs through the events of his "plot" and basically makes a semi-consistent but still messy amalgamation world of various continuities that aren't exactly in sync with each other. And thus we get the Main Rider World we've been with since W where seemingly every Rider is integrated into it. Riders from W onwards are born into this new world but it's not exactly consistent or stable, which is why there are slight gaps in continuity and things that don't add up but they're relatively harmless. But those gaps in continuity and stuff basically mean the worlds can't ever fully become one yet. Build was the turning point, and the peak of everything due to it specifically being a separate world. The Rider World likely couldn't handle anymore shared Riders and thus a new Build World was created. But then was implied to merge with Rider World and this ended up being the final linchpin that acted as the catalyst for Zi-O. Now all Swartz had to do was recruit Time Jacker pawns and start getting Sougo to hunt for Ridewatches, this being expedited by the Time Orphans going back themselves. Once all the Ridewatches are gathered and Grand Zi-O formed, the worlds had fully and completely merged into one. The way they're fused together however was so haphazardly done that they're contradicting each other and now space and time are collapsing on top of each other as a result. Anyway this was my big giga theory based on everything and how interpreted the information we got in both 47 and 49, thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Back To Your Regularly Scheduled post Anyway BGM Swaps for the Final Episode of Zi-O: Toki no Ouja, Tsukuyomi's Insert, Future Guardian, and finally Decade's Preview BGM and out of all of them? Decade's Preview BGM fits the mood the best. Also that added "Connect Everything, Destroy Everything" bit being added in this particular one helps a lot. Zero's Legend Episode Previews Corner - EP 49 Preview: Last edited by Enchilada645; 05-15-2022 at 07:36 PM.. |
05-15-2022, 08:30 PM | #1102 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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(Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Zi-O - EP48)
Wouldn't be the first time a Rider show you've gotten genuinely worried about has pulled this trick! (Although usually Inoue is the one writing when that happens...) Anyway, yeah, I can't think of too much to add on. Despite my typically positive attitude about in retrospect, I do recall having my own concerns with where this final arc was going, and this episode did a lot to reassure me Zi-O hadn't lost its path. It's also like, the definitive proof that Trinity is the best Zi-O form, so I'll always like it for that too. (Plus, the show shoving The Power Of Friendship to the forefront here did a lot to recontextualize Oma Zi-O for me into a genuine character that's surprisingly fun to think about, which is a heck of a victory for this show when that dude is just as much of a glorified metaphor as SOUGO was in Over Quartzer.) Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi is pretty neat too! I remember someone at the time pointing out how cheap the gold watchband trim looks as just a flat printed design, and to this day, I'm convinced I would like that suit at least twice as much if they had made it that little bit more three-dimensional. And mind you, I still like it a lot as is, so twice as much is a huge difference! Oh, and speaking of things I remember other people pointing out! The opening we've been seeing for a whole year by now: This episode: Considering that scene only happens like a couple minutes after the opening, you'd think the parallel is obvious, but I sure missed it completely! It's a really great touch though. I'm sure someone else could articulate this better than me, but it really conveys that year of growth Sougo has had as a character, and the year of growth Sou Okuno has had portraying that character. It's still crazy to think back and remember there was a point where even *I* didn't like this kid all that much.
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05-15-2022, 08:39 PM | #1103 |
Hates Fun
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 43
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Boy, look at all the in depth discussion regarding this last arc with Schwarz. I don't want to just restate things... Oh, I know. I'll respond with the same forethought and effort the show has.
This is the current plot. Bye now. the ohma stuff is good though
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05-15-2022, 08:41 PM | #1104 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
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(Plus, the show shoving The Power Of Friendship to the forefront here did a lot to recontextualize Oma Zi-O for me into a genuine character that's surprisingly fun to think about, which is a heck of a victory for this show when that dude is just as much of a glorified metaphor as SOUGO was in Over Quartzer.)
But, yeah, I like the conversation Sougo has with Oma Zi-O a lot. As much as Oma Zi-O usually has this condescending attitude towards Sougo, verbally ruffling his hair and treating his rebelliousness as a precocious tantrum, it's great to see Sougo come back at it with a real I'm Not Mad, I'm Just Disappointed attitude about Oma Zi-O's solitude and isolation. Sougo's just super bummed out that a version of him never figured out how to draw strength from our people's support, rather than just stealing their power.
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05-15-2022, 08:42 PM | #1105 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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05-15-2022, 08:58 PM | #1106 |
Precure enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Amongst the Cosmos
Posts: 304
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Episode 48!
-Yeah, this episode generally has a much better vibe than these last few episodes, because it's chock full of those sweeeeeet character moments! -The talk between Uncle and Sougo? Good as hell, loved it. I do love when Rider plays with the "keeping up/revealing my superhero idenity" stuff that goes beyond "Better not let random civilans/the bad guys know!". It feels like it's been ages since a consisently reoccuring character who's close to a Rider has been left out of the loop for this long, and I'm glad they stuck the landing on that! -I always loved the talks between Oma Zi-O and Sougo? Oma's never particularly angry in these dicussions that Sougo does as he pleases, it's more like....encouraging, understanding in a twisted sense? It's almost...sweet, how Oma Zi-O essentially gives Sougo his blessings to seek out his own future, even if it might not exactly lead to the future he rules over 1:1. -Tsu-ku-yo-mi! Nice suit, wish we got it a bit earlier tho! |
05-15-2022, 09:05 PM | #1107 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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The talk between Uncle and Sougo? Good as hell, loved it. I do love when Rider plays with the "keeping up/revealing my superhero idenity" stuff that goes beyond "Better not let random civilans/the bad guys know!". It feels like it's been ages since a consisently reoccuring character who's close to a Rider has been left out of the loop for this long, and I'm glad they stuck the landing on that!
I kinda like that it's just this little beat, and Uncle is -- naturally -- nothing but supportive and proud. Sougo deserves it. It maybe would've been nice, but I love the show making Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi the absolute final cliffhanger. It makes her the sought-after turning of the tide, rather than just, if you'll pardon the expression, Another Rider. I really like how big of a deal this debut is.
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05-15-2022, 09:43 PM | #1108 |
Kaiju or Hero?
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Even I Don't Know Anymore.
Posts: 1,397
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Before I get into this episode, I'd like to say, the Decade Season II bit mostly stems from how Zi-O decided to incorporate Decade's setting into its own, thus bringing us to that branch of thinking. It's not really significant, but that's how I see it.
But honestly yes, the Oma Zi-O arc is definitely where the show picked up after Swartz kind of disappointed us (his plan was pretty stupid anyway), and the scene with Sougo saying his farewells to his uncle is perhaps one of my favorite scenes in Rider. He's behind him every step of the way, he understands the risks his nephew is taking, and possibly an inkling of what may happen to him, but he sees him off with a smile regardless. Truly one of the best supporting Rider characters. I also really like the mirror to Decade's beginning where they're surrounded by monsters, or Decade's soundtrack playing as he transforms into Zi-O (this was probably last episode, but I'm having a hard time remembering), and of course, Tsukasa roasting Geiz's "acting." But the real kicker is Kamen Rider Tsukuyomi, the joke they made early on in the commemorative specials! It's like they say, "jokes are the deepest lore." One detail I haven't touched up on is how Woz's intros now take place in the present, no longer reciting what is written in his book (I strangely found him tearing the book in Over X Quartzer simultaneously blasphemous and wonderful), it's a fun detail, and brings immersion to the story. |
05-15-2022, 09:49 PM | #1109 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
One detail I haven't touched up on is how Woz's intros now take place in the present, no longer reciting what is written in his book (I strangely found him tearing the book in Over X Quartzer simultaneously blasphemous and wonderful), it's a fun detail, and brings immersion to the story.
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05-15-2022, 09:51 PM | #1110 |
take me to space
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,406
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I'm.... really sad to say that this episode actually just in total comes together to being painful for me, and its specifically because it comes so close to being everything that I ever wanted from this show.
Just on paper, everything to do with the confrontation with Oma Zi-O is just absolute perfection. Sougo has already challenged his future self before, but lost even when wielding the same all-encompassing power of all Kamen Riders ("actually he lost because drive-" shut up). In the end, Sougo goes up against Oma Zi-O not with any of those spectacular powers, but with the support of his friends, something Oma Zi-O never had. And after a fierce battle where we see Oma Zi-O get hurt for the first time ever, the overlord finally acknowledges that his younger self isn't destined only to become like him, but has his own different, brighter future after all, and so concedes. That's so good. It's sooooo good. It's like, the perfect way to end this conflict with its all-powerful villain. It's not only perfect for Zi-O, but I honestly think it'd be the most wonderful, poignant, epic and subversive ending to these shows since Kuuga's final clash with Daguva! Had this episode landed all the necessary beats for me, I'm not kidding when I say this would be my favouirte final boss fight across all of Kamen Rider, and I would have been so quick to brush aside just about every problem I had with the show on the way here. ......But. There's several things, of varying importance, that keep it from being that for me. 1. THE CONTEXT FOR THIS FIGHT TO HAPPEN Honestly not a big deal because I would have even accepted a 'flimsy' reason for this fight to happen like, Sougo just decides he wants to prove a point to his future self here and now. Ideally this whole last stretch of episodes would have actually been about building up to this confrontation with Oma Zi-O being a menace to the past or sending threats to test/challenge Sougo, but that's getting into fanfic theory. What is here though, I don't get what or why Sougo was doing there in 2068. I know its beating a long, looong dead horse to say the plot doesn't make sense, but the ''''''plan'''''' that Sougo and Tsukasa come up with to save the multiverse and might end with Sougo's life being sacrificed is to go to the future to see Tsukiyomi's past self, slip a Ridewatch into her pocket, so that she becomes a Rider in the present? And that'll save the world??? Sougo didn't even actually ask Oma Zi-O to do that, the latter just threw it in as a bonus????? 2. THE FIGHT ITSELF IS UNDERWHELMING I'll just throw in real quick that when Zi-O first charged in after Oma Zi-O, I sorta immediately assumed we're going to get that classic kind of thing where he would cycle through a bunch of his forms/upgrades. We don't get that but that's fine, the big moment here is Zi-O Trinity vs Oma Zi-O. And it kinda sucks? I mean, the entire idea behind this fight is that instead of Sougo relying on his amazing Legend Rider powers, he bests his future self with the powers of friendship that the latter never has. Wouldn't the easiest, most logical ways to showcase that be for Zi-O Trinity to bust out any of Geiz'z and Woz'z weapons and abilities? And Trinity's finishing attack, the Time Break Burst Explosion literally summons the imagery of all three riders combining their efforts into one concentrated attack! The idea of what's actually on screen is probably that having Geiz and Woz by his side is what allows Sougo to push through to land that hit, and that's neat and all, but you know what would have been a very easy way to translate that idea like ten times better? Doing anything with Trinity's actual power, like summoning the axe, the spear, the claw, the super speed, the sunbeams, the actual proper finisher, something. Instead he just uses Zi-O II's big sword. "I've never seen a power like that" Literally not true??? 3, and this one's kind of critical. GEIZ AND WOZ ARE JUST PROPS HERE Geiz is finally face to face with the overlord that ruined his life and the lives of everyone he's ever cared about, and is now standing up to him alongside the friend he's forged an unbeatable connection, whom he believes in and trusts more than the overlord's overwhelming power. And Woz is directly challenging the overlord he has devoted himself to, by taking the side of his younger self, whom Woz sees a greater potential in and fervently supports. And neither of them have anything to say!!! This fight should mean everything to all three of them, but both have nothing to say. Nothing to say to Oma Zi-O, nothing to say to Sougo, nothing to even comment about regarding this situation other than 'oh hey its oma zi-o guess we are fighting him now'. Like what! I might be willing to cut at least Geiz a little slack. This show overall has no shortage of heroic and heartwarming declarations between him and Sougo, so maaaaybe I can accept that there simply doesn't need to be anything said there at this point (but they should still say it anyway!). But Woz? This episode was the last and only chance for the show to offer any kind of insight or elaboration as to why he does the things he do, why he's devoted to either Oma Zi-O or Sougo, anything to make him more than just the guy who says Iwae. I've been waiting ever since the show first teased hints about the guy's backstory and motivation back in Episode 29. I'm still waiting, in fact. (I'll also throw in that I wish I could say Tsukiyomi should also have like, an opinion about what's going on with Oma Zi-O, because she's been on the team since day 1 but... Everything the show has done with her with the reveals of being some princess with time powers from another timeline yadda yadda, has sorta alienated her from the show's initial premise. I'm sad to say that as she is now, it feels like she wouldn't have a place in this conflict.) 4. THAT THIS ISN'T EVEN THE FINAL BATTLE I admit this could just be me, but everything about the very fibre of this show from the beginning, and everything in my gut as a person who has consumed at least one piece of fiction in my life, is screaming out that the last conflict in this show ought to be, should have been, needs to be this final confrontation between Sougo and Oma Zi-O. But no. This whole fight feels more like ticking off something on a checklist rather than a conclusion to a long, series arc. We still have to deal with some nobody in his SIC Decade cosplay! God, I wish Geiz Revive would have just cut this stupid guy's head off with his buzzsaw! Why can't Decade and Diend just handle him like they imply they will?! The only thing that could smooth any of this over for me is if next episode has Tsukiyomi getting rid of Swatczhzs within five minutes and the rest of the finale is just an extended epilogue. So all in all, this didn't work for me! I know its probably not fair, but had the episodes before this point actually been building up to this point and dealing with Oma Zi-O to culiminate in this battle, I wouldn't have pinned all my hopes for the series as a whole into this one episode. As the show is though, I needed this episode, for this confrontation, to be maybe not perfect, but really really really good! And it could have been if maybe two or maybe even one the points I listed above didn't apply! With just a few tweaks, Zi-O's endgame could have been one of my favourite things in the world. I know the whole moral of this show is about learning from the past, working towards a brighter future, yadda yadda, but I can't help but fixated on the past and a future that can never be. So, that's on me for perhaps not willing to take the episode and the show as it is in the present.... But it really could have been so, so, so much better!!! Last edited by FreshToku; 05-16-2022 at 03:39 AM.. |
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