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09-27-2021, 09:09 PM | #351 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,578
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I'll say this about Decade Complete, kickass debut. Really good.
Also given we've gone through 12 years of Final Forms by this point? Incredibly modest and subtle compared to a lot of other suits down the line, especially Decade related ones! |
09-28-2021, 01:56 AM | #352 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 2,551
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She says she initially joined to find some fellow creative people to swap ideas with, only to be disappointed that she couldn’t find many.
To be honest, I can see where she’s coming from. The one time I tried asking for creative help on this forum, I only got two replies, one of which made it clear he hadn’t even read the request. As for Decade complete? Well the title calls it a living photo album and it certainly gives us what’s promised. I’ve seen people call it uncreative or wishing they’d go with logos instead of cards, but I’m like “Way to miss the whole point of the suit.” Besides, my least favourite finale rom is still Brave Legacy Gamer, since it’s just regular Brave with a cape and shoulder pads. Last edited by Androzani84; 09-28-2021 at 01:58 AM.. |
09-28-2021, 04:44 AM | #353 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
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Was waiting but guess I was late instead here.
Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: I hear you, about trying to find something resonant in these shows. There's a thing in the final episode of Ryuki where it's just a woman in a restaurant straightening cutlery, but I've made it into something that encapsulates the beauty of human connection and the necessary, impossible effort of empathy. The best parts of these shows are when we can find something personal in them, regardless of what the creators intended.
DREAMCASTEGIRL: Oh, that's lovely. I mean, also, absolutely, this is why I'm so like Death of the Author! Death of the Author! at every turn. I don't really want to know about the creators, about their intentions because I know what these things mean to me. There's nothing worse than hearing someone explain the meaning of a song you have misheard and realising it is a thousand times less interesting than you believed. Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: No, I think it's plenty relevant! Like, Inoue's a writer I frequently describe as Accidentally Progressive, because... like, there are so many things that go into making a tokusatsu series, so many hands, and the alchemy of that can add so many layers to a story that it's like trying to discern an architect's intentions from a room's furniture. It's a different thing! It gets to be judged by different criteria, and it's best to disassociate a creator from that process as much as you can. It's okay to have opinions, but it's maybe not helpful to have certainty, if that makes any sense.
Quote:
DREAMCASTEGIRL: I think you're right. Kiva is about relationships with parents, but... Hibiki is about the example you set, the things you leave behind, showing them that path as you say. Amusing that the worst ever Otoya appearance followed directly after it.
I really like the whole "rival schools" theme in this as an aside. KAMEN RIDER DIE: Not as an aside! I really want to talk about that decision, to make this about warring schools. Like, a lot of this story is about how mentors can put themselves above students, rather than recognizing that the student's growth is what gives the mentor value. It's about how systems calcify and stop working right, and how children can suffer for that inflexibility. Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: The teamwork part... I don't know if that's something I took away from Hibiki? The way everyone's example helped shape Asumu, sure, but the Oni were largely treated as coworkers, not teammates. It's a real lesson here, that we're Stronger Together, but it's not what I recall being a dominant theme from the series. Is that not your experience?
I think that teamwork is one of a main theme (or really enforced) of Hibiki due to the humans work together in harmony, always valuing what every single person has to contribute (and even harsh criticizing like Akira got reprimanded). That'd be a very strong sense of teamwork like Kuuga, to the point that you'd want some reasonable disagreements between them as well. Even the secondary Rider of the series Ibuki never actually fight his series' titular Rider at any point, especially compared to his predecessors. Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: It's my favorite arc for an anti-hero, where Kaitou is just playing all these sides against each other to get what he wants, but he's playing them by a) actually improving their lives, and b) exposing his own psychology. The things he says to Asumu... I mean, they are good lessons that Kaitou learned the hard way, and you can tell how much he means them. There's even that bit at the end, with Decade, where it frustrates Kaitou to know that the universe has ceded the hero role to Tsukasa. The idea that Kaitou sees Asumu's desire to be more than he's allowed, and that Asumu's dedication is called into question, and then Kaitou seriously invests in this kid... god, so good. Such smart writing for Kaitou in these episodes. It really ties together a bunch of contradictory/unwritten storylines.
DREAMCASTEGIRL: I really hope people think of me in this way when I'm gone, haha. Yeah, you're absolutely right, there is a real resonance in Kaitou's actions in regards to Asumu that speaks so much of his character, it clues you in to what he's been through, the life he has lived without dumping the details in your lap, and I super like that. I think it's a really powerful and positive portrayal of the impact adults can have on the young. Though due to Kaitou being an anti-hero, I'd have a harder time seeing him as a Hibiki on this story, albeit he does share some traits, but I can't say all. Hibiki would show about a mentoring that doesn't involve dubious shit, though Kaitou probably acted tsundere in the last part to brush off the kid thanking him or claiming that the kid's growth will be important to give him more treasure. But I think Kaitou can be not that ambiguous here with the "I Was Playing You then realizes that he cares.", the still present selfish part can portray the mutual benefit a jerk can gain when being helpful to others instead of putting them down. Quote:
DREAMCASTEGIRL: I'm trying to type this with a cat on my hands, so apologies if I don't make myself clear, and there's also the danger I'm being informed by later characterisation, but, to me, Yuusuke seems to express the same doubt, the same fear of not being good enough, and is also a character who lost his mentor and his direction.
I'm sure it's just that there's only so much time and only so many characters you can spotlight in that time, but it comes across as Yuusuke being frozen by the implications of acting in certain moments here. The fanfic writer in me maybe reads too heavily into this but, to me, it seems like Yuusuke can see the same things that Kaitou does but, because it's so close to home, he doesn't know how to deal with it. Meanwhile, I think Tsukasa has a reading of the situation but is too busy trying to pretend that he's clever. Yeah, the actors are back, but they're not the same characters as the ones in original Hibiki other than look and name I guess, as they're significantly more hostile and selfish than what Takeshi lives for. They also seem to have some form of ageism to violently refuse the disciple's suggestion to join forces, with Tsukasa of all people being the one to put a stop on it. Todoroki did have a same personality, but he's in love to Akira instead (Hinaka's actress Miyuki Kanbe had passed away in 2008... very short lifespan), but I don't like the part of him gaining the portrayal of phase 2 one with him being completely out of touch in reality for the Akira crush scene. And yeah dunno if this is a fanservice, but the part had both Asumu and Akira becoming Riders (Akira's Rider form is named Amaki). Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: From when I was watching Hibiki Episode 22:
"The gimmick is that they’re synchronizing their attacks to defeat the monster, playing together as a band. Hibiki specifically uses the phrase 'harmonize'. But then they… just play their normal solos? It doesn’t sound harmonic at all, it sounds like three people that have completely different rhythms. I was hoping they’d make some song out of their attack, but it’s just them doing what they’d normally do while two other guys did the same. Feels like a missed opportunity for something really special." And then this episode does EXACTLY THAT. Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DIE: I liked the Hibiki/Asumu relationship here. It felt very right, all of Hibiki's weird reluctance that's coming from a good place while still being sort of mean.
DREAMCASTEGIRL: Yeah, it definitely resonated with me. I think we all have that person in our lives or have been that person who wanted to protect someone but sort made it worse by building a wall around them. Tsukasa does this as well so it's a good contrast. it fascinates me how many young men identified with DCD in fanfiction circles. I still see a lot of OC!DCDs, because I think that defensive character type and misunderstood destroyer archetype is how a lot of young men see themselves positioned in society, so they project a lot onto a character like Tsukasa.
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The most complete non-wiki encyclopedias for Kamen Rider series (currently only found Ryuki and OOO's). Last edited by DreadBringer; 09-28-2021 at 06:33 AM.. |
09-28-2021, 09:03 AM | #354 |
Kaiju or Hero?
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Even I Don't Know Anymore.
Posts: 1,397
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The Evil Riders World arc. Honestly, I really like the idea of a world ruled by Evil Riders, especially how Tsukasa felt more at home here, which is funny since he did antagonize some of the Riders in the AR Worlds. It was also rather amusing how AR Kuuga had to pay ridiculous sums of money and such while Tsukasa was given the royal treatment.
The Evil Riders were pretty neat, despite me not having seen any of them (except for recently, being Ryuuga), and almost felt symbolic after Decade acquired the powers of the nine Riders and now has to fight their evil counterparts. And Tsukasa accepting that he doesn't belong in any world, but just a passing through Kamen Rider was honestly, perfect. And then there's Decade Complete... Which I actually didn't mind. Sure, the cards plastered across his chest with his on his forehead was ridiculous, but the color scheme and what reminded me of camera film details were, aesthetically brilliant. And with the ability to use the Riders' Final Forms and abilities was a great idea for a Final Form for a Rider celebrating ten whole seasons back-to-back. I don't know, but I don't have any hard feeling towards this suit, heck, even the Complete 21 suit's not something I mind that much. Maybe it's bias or nostalgia for Decade as my first season, or it could be that I don't have any particular disdain for even the suits people consider "ugly," since I actually loved the Ex-Aid Riders, even if Paradox's first two forms weren't my favorite. |
09-28-2021, 09:49 AM | #355 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,098
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Quote:
The Todoroki/Akira stuff definitely felt shoe-horned in, a nod to all of the wacky Todoroki Is In Love plots. It's very weird here, because it's only a shortcut that gets us to Todoroki and Akira teaming up with Asumu, something they'd probably have done anyway, and Todoroki seems at least five years too old to have a crush on Akira. It's both unnecessary for the plot and creepy to watch. Not everything from Hibiki needed to get a callback!
Quote:
It feels like this is what the episode was setting up, that even outsiders can find a group that understands them, and how Team Decade is that for Tsukasa. Knowing that this was an Inoue episode, and one of his big things is arguing for your place in society rather than letting society dictate the terms of your involvement, I wouldn't be surprised if that's where the next part landed.
Quote:
KAMEN RIDER DECADE EPISODE 21 - “GOING THROUGH THE COMPLETE RIDER ALBUM”
You could maybe say that Tsukasa sort of became his own Rider, finally, with the speech he gives about Protecting People’s Journeys. It’s his standard final-act speech, where he sums up the story’s lesson, but this one’s… I don’t know. It’s something that I want to see as uniquely Tsukasa, something that he would value more than another Rider. People trying to figure out where they fit in, trying to find a place that makes sense to them, that is 100% something Tsukasa would care about. That’s a mission that I can see him undertaking. I actually like it. Not my favorite Decade suit, but I think it works aesthetically as Tsukasa's real reward, with Final Forms usually being symbolic of personal growth. The cards going blank again reflected the emptiness that Tsukasa was feeling, like gaining all those powers was for nothing and he was just back at square one. So Decade Complete is Tsukasa's proud statement that he's not going to take the easy way out and give up on his journey, which gives his cards their power back. The pink is still there, but moved to an accent and the eyes. The green is the real victim. The Decade card on his head gives a Droste effect. I think that's cool! I like Complete 21 as well, except for that awful card cape. Quote:
She says she initially joined to find some fellow creative people to swap ideas with, only to be disappointed that she couldn’t find many.
To be honest, I can see where she’s coming from. The one time I tried asking for creative help on this forum, I only got two replies, one of which made it clear he hadn’t even read the request.
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心 と 刃 Last edited by Sh Ranger; 09-28-2021 at 09:59 AM.. |
09-28-2021, 10:42 AM | #356 |
Kaiju or Hero?
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Even I Don't Know Anymore.
Posts: 1,397
|
Quote:
She says she initially joined to find some fellow creative people to swap ideas with, only to be disappointed that she couldn’t find many.
To be honest, I can see where she’s coming from. The one time I tried asking for creative help on this forum, I only got two replies, one of which made it clear he hadn’t even read the request. As for Decade complete? Well the title calls it a living photo album and it certainly gives us what’s promised. I’ve seen people call it uncreative or wishing they’d go with logos instead of cards, but I’m like “Way to miss the whole point of the suit.” Besides, my least favourite finale rom is still Brave Legacy Gamer, since it’s just regular Brave with a cape and shoulder pads. Brave Legacy is kind of like the Reiwa Riders' Final Forms (of course, there's also Stronger's Final Form which is a slight recolor). Don't know if there's any Final Form on the bottom of my list, at least I can't think of one. |
09-28-2021, 10:56 AM | #357 |
Standing By
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 2,098
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For me, it would be Armed Hibiki, Zeronos Zero Form, IXA Rising, Beast Hyper, Gaim Kiwami Arms, Build Genius and Zero One RealEyezing Hopper.
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心 と 刃 |
09-28-2021, 11:06 AM | #358 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Wizard Infinity Gold All Dragon, anyone?
I don't typically dislike Final Forms. A lot of them are ridiculous and silly and over the top but frankly it's Toku, that's half the fun! Stuff like Decade Complete and Meteor Storm and Snipe Level 50... it naturally doesn't have the same appeal as, say, Tajador or Kuuga Ultimate or Ghost Mugen but it's beautiful and fun in its own way.
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09-28-2021, 12:00 PM | #359 |
Kaiju or Hero?
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Even I Don't Know Anymore.
Posts: 1,397
|
Quote:
I don't typically dislike Final Forms. A lot of them are ridiculous and silly and over the top but frankly it's Toku, that's half the fun! Stuff like Decade Complete and Meteor Storm and Snipe Level 50... it naturally doesn't have the same appeal as, say, Tajador or Kuuga Ultimate or Ghost Mugen but it's beautiful and fun in its own way.
In the end, it's always fun to see what their end point in the power scaling looks like. |
09-28-2021, 04:05 PM | #360 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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It looks completely ridiculous, and I would never want it any other way. Complete Form basically set the precedent for how Toei would start designing a lot of main suits going forward, in that they were consciously aware it didn't look cool, but decided it was more important to leave an impact first and foremost. So they slapped a bunch of cards all over Decade, because he's the card Rider. Heck, they weren't going to have a card on his head at first, but Shirakura himself was like "we should totally slap a card on his head too if that's what we're doing", and then they put a picture of Decade on Decade's face.
And this is his big super form! It's weird and dumb and yeah I miss the magenta and yeah I don't know what was supposed to be incomplete about the base form and yeah, frankly, I didn't like it that much either at first, but... all that being said? I really do think they made the right call with Complete Form, because weird and dumb designs being made to look cool became one of my favorite things about the franchise, and it was there to pave the way like never before. If they hadn't decided to push Decade this far back then, I feel like they wouldn't have had the courage to make any of the Ex-Aid designs later, you know? (And the K-Touch is just plain cool. Love that thing.) Anyway, yeah, this two-parter still isn't a favorite of mine. I guess fitting that spiel about Complete Form, it definitely sticks in my memory, at least, but I agree with most of your non-suit related opinions here. It's a shame, too, because that really is such a definitive Tsukasa speech! Just one of many solid pieces in these episodes that can't quite coalesce into something greater.
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