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09-02-2023, 06:11 PM | #17541 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,448
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So hey, if you didn't know, episodes 31 and 32 have a Director's Cut known as Climax Episode. I highly recommend that being the way you experience those episodes.
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09-02-2023, 07:55 PM | #17542 |
Warrior of Delusions!
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Wait, you dont know either?
Posts: 5,826
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I did not know that, thanks for saying! I watched #31 earlier today, but I guess I'll just do the Climax Episode instead of #32.
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Check out my occasional ramblings! https://akibamusings.blogspot.com/
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09-03-2023, 02:32 AM | #17543 |
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,290
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Sorry if those'd be contradictory, but....
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Then they just keep dumping more characters and plot points that are barely relevant to anything in the mix. Supporters, DGP staff, Ace's past lives, finite amounts of happiness in the world, constant world resets, the tree of knowledge! It was absolute narrative chaos that I can barely even process and didn't come together to make a satisfying whole.
The finite happiness in the world is Kekera's belief, thus he molds Keiwa into his ideal kind of "hero" by having him go through throwing people under the bus to save people that he wants, his family, rather than the "wishy-washy" type of striving for everyone's (fans also often hate that and like, want those people to kill and sacrifice more "for the greater good"), shown in him going through the DGP's wishes with the full knowledge that he'd sacrifice people's happiness. One characters' belief doesn't mean series' representation. Overall it's just the DGP crime of making few happy at the expense of many, and ofc they want to keep that secret, of which Ace seeks to atone for his mother being put through that by acting as a total antithesis of the DGP, including making use of his powers in other ways that doesn't come to people's expense unlike the DGP, and he gave Keiwa hope too that drastic means isn't the only way to achieve ideal world - of which Keiwa chooses to follow Ace's teachings over Kekera's, making him stop cooking up extreme ideas if he fails (he gets more drastic as he got deprived of the wish like others destroying DGP or Sara dying) for good. Quote:
The audience and Kekera in particular felt like a parody of the idea that "Rider fans just want to see people suffer on TV" and more broadly the kinds of people who enjoy these death game stories, without really getting why it is that people want these kinds of things. Generally, fans don't just want to watch a character suffer for the sake of it, characters who suffer are relatable. We want to root for them to overcome their challenges because they seem more real. When they succeed we are reminded that we can do the same, and when they fail we feel their pain.
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The way Geats approaches it felt like it was talking down to fans when they have very real criticisms like "it feels cheap to constantly revive characters just for a happy ending" and reducing it to all of them being a bunch of sadists. It was almost like the show was smugly looking at the viewer and going "There, isn't the story better this way, where everyone can be happy?" while making an absolute mess. I keep wanting to compare it to Shin Kamen Rider, which had a similar story about human happiness. Shin Kamen Rider was serious and goofy and completely earnest, with a deep love of Kamen Rider and what it was about, while Geats' poor meta commentary towards fans just felt cynical. Ugh, sorry, but this particular aspect just really peeved me.
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The most complete non-wiki encyclopedias for Kamen Rider series (currently only found Ryuki and OOO's). Last edited by DreadBringer; 09-03-2023 at 02:52 AM.. |
09-03-2023, 10:22 AM | #17544 |
Henshin Heaven
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Inside a Hyper Battle Video, help.
Posts: 1,249
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No no, it's good to disagree! I think that for a lot of fans Geats resonated with them and it's good to hear why. I do agree that there are certainly toxic fans who just want to watch the world burn, which is likely what triggered Takahashi to write this way.
Likewise I hope it is clear why stuff I feel the way I do about some things the show did. For example I think several rounds of the game has low impact for me because I found the character growth for our mains relatively lacking and they felt like they could be incorporated into other parts of the show better. Similarly, I hope you can see how the audience criticisms can feel like they cast too wide of a net and come across like Takahashi bashing on Rider fans in general, since the show doesn't really show much in the way of normal DGP fans besides allusions that the show used to be different in the past. Combined with Takahashi's very deliberate indulgence in things he has been criticized for in the past (cheap revivals especially), and it can easily come across like a defensive writer for some viewers. I do want to emphasize too that I enjoyed the show even if I didn't think it was very good. A little like Ghost, I was oddly riveted by the whole experience!
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09-03-2023, 01:52 PM | #17545 |
I have a problematic type
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,430
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This is probably the biggest reason why I fell off of Geats: I just actively did not care for any of the characters. Neon was probably the one that felt the most compelling to me, but it also felt like she completely stagnated after her backstory reveal and she got hit hard by the same "silly girl, effectiveness is for boys" stick that bludgeoned Yua to irrelevancy in Zero-One. Michy 2 similarly felt like he wasn't really going anywhere. Making Ace not be the focus character at the start of the show was an interesting decision that I know Rider has pulled off before (Faiz and Hibiki), but it didn't work for me here. I never felt like I really connected much with Ace because the show pushed Keiwa and Neon more as protagonists than our title character. When he did start getting more central it still felt to me like he was more of an elevated side character than the real main character.
And then there's Keiwa, aka "we have Shinji Kido at home." I do not care for Keiwa. When the show started, I assumed he was going to be the Kagami to Ace's Tendou, but it feels a lot more like he was taking Shinji's role as the character who protested that the game was bullshit and that he just wanted to protect people. Except Shinji had a fire inside of him that made him compelling as a protagonist, while Keiwa just came off as a weenie. He sucked at Kamen Riding, sucked at changing anyone else's perspective on the DGP, and generally felt like a useless sad sack. The main reason I stopped watching the show was because I had absolutely zero interest in watching an arc where the show tried to have him go through an angsty evil phase because dear lord do I not have the patience for an evil Keiwa. I barely had patience for the good version. Quote:
One thing that kept really rubbing me the wrong way is how the show almost seemed like it wanted to make fun of Rider fans, while at the same time not really understanding them. The audience and Kekera in particular felt like a parody of the idea that "Rider fans just want to see people suffer on TV" and more broadly the kinds of people who enjoy these death game stories, without really getting why it is that people want these kinds of things. Generally, fans don't just want to watch a character suffer for the sake of it, characters who suffer are relatable. We want to root for them to overcome their challenges because they seem more real. When they succeed we are reminded that we can do the same, and when they fail we feel their pain. The way Geats approaches it felt like it was talking down to fans when they have very real criticisms like "it feels cheap to constantly revive characters just for a happy ending" and reducing it to all of them being a bunch of sadists. It was almost like the show was smugly looking at the viewer and going "There, isn't the story better this way, where everyone can be happy?" while making an absolute mess. I keep wanting to compare it to Shin Kamen Rider, which had a similar story about human happiness. Shin Kamen Rider was serious and goofy and completely earnest, with a deep love of Kamen Rider and what it was about, while Geats' poor meta commentary towards fans just felt cynical. Ugh, sorry, but this particular aspect just really peeved me.
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09-05-2023, 07:55 AM | #17546 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,448
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Just recently finished the next entry in my Kamen Rider journey: The not-at-all controversial Kamen Rider Kiva!
I think people are starting to forget it more and more as time goes on, but up until stuff like Wizard and Ghost premiered, Kiva was pretty much the definitive "worst Rider show ever" for a number of reasons. So what was my take? Honestly, I just found it overall very... "whatever." Like, yeah, there are its ups and downs like with any show, but as an overall, my main emotional state throughout a majority of the thing was just me sort of shrugging and going "sure." The key thing in all of that, I feel, was that once Act 2 hit, it was clear that this was not a story aimed at someone with my tastes. Because really, I found the plot to be the weakest aspect of it all, with most of the character arcs severely suffering because of it. Meanwhile, the music and general aesthetic of the show were pretty well done, and what few characters I did like were ones that almost made the entire experience worth it despite my gripes. And for the record, yes, I like both Wataru and Otoya. The show oddly enough reminded me of Dynazenon in that, every time a potential story hook or character arc would get proposed that I found interesting, it would immediately get thrown out to instead focus on romance that I felt nothing for. Inoue writes for plot, and unfortunately the plot we wanted to hard focus on in Kiva was romance and race relations, two things that I personally feel he's never been well equipped to handle. I found alot of the more interesting stuff to be in Act 1 as a result. Stuff like Nago and how his black and white view of morality does more harm than good, Wataru learning to express himself through music and friendship, Kengo needing to learn that's he's more than just his guitar, Megumi's idol career and how it interferes with her job as a warrior, and of course, where in the heck half of the stuff in the world of Kiva even comes from. All of these are things brought up in Act 1 only to get immediately get thrown out once Act 2 hits. Don't get me wrong, I understand that "thinking with your dick" is very much a thing, but even with that in mind I found alot of character choices to be ones that either didn't make sense or were very forced. My favorite example being how Nago turns into an entirely different character the moment he gets slapped by Maya. It's incredibly lazy to begin with, and makes it so that Nago doesn't ever get a full blown, naturally flowing arc as a result. Same deal goes for Kengo, who goes through two wild swings in character with only exposition given by other characters, which not only makes it feel not genuine, but also ends up contradicted throughout the show's' run regardless. It also makes me wonder what it must've been like for anyone who watched the show weekly, because I full on binged this show(as I usually do), and still felt like alot of Act 2 was a serious drag. Meanwhile with Act 3, I felt was solid enough in seclusion, but in context to the rest of the show? Really I wouldn't blame anyone who felt like all three acts were written by different writers. Because yet again, when it comes to characterization, there are things that rub me the wrong way. For example, Taiga not caring at all about Sagarc dying, despite Sagarc being Taiga's' friend since Taiga was a toddler. That's another thing too. One thing I've read certain defenders of Kiva's' story choices say is that they "don't care about where the toys come from." And sure, for many other toku shows I could see that, but when it comes to Kiva I really can't agree, because this is one of the tokusatsu where not only are many of the toys closely tied to the characters, in alot of cases the toys ARE actual characters. Kivat, Tatsulot, Sagarc, the three Servants... they are all toys, and also all characters with their own personalities. So to me, saying one doesn't care about the toys is to also say that they don't care about the characters, and that's a notion that I personally just can't agree with. Characters are my primary appeal: If I'd liked most of the cast, the plot being dumb wouldn't matter! But, so as to not end all of this on a sour note, I'm now gonna list off all of the positives that I took away from Kiva.
When all is said and done though, I give Kamen Rider Kiva a 2/6. It's not horrible, but it's a show that's very much not for me. The song I ended up choosing to represent Kiva on my Kamen Rider Playlist is "Weaving the Threads of Time" which is a song that not only has a fitting name, but heavily features violin work, which was basically a necessity for a show that has such a deep appreciation for the instrument. Even if they only ever played like two songs on it.
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Last edited by DreamSword; 09-05-2023 at 10:27 AM.. |
09-05-2023, 10:15 AM | #17547 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,961
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And yet I think that Kivu can rightly be called the most rarely mentioned show. That is, I think that some Dapan or Tiger is mentioned more often than IXA. A shame! |
09-05-2023, 10:19 AM | #17548 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,961
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Arranged with my father (born in 1969) a Kamen Rider viewing marathon. Watch the first two episodes on YouTube in chronological order. We settled on Ryuki, his opinion: "It became boring when they stopped making enemies of the Nazis."
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09-05-2023, 10:28 AM | #17549 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,448
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Despite being a G3 clone, IXA is a neat suit! Was not a fan of Kengo magically knowing how to use it with no issue, though.
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09-05-2023, 10:46 AM | #17550 |
Veteran Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 1,961
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