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View Poll Results: Do you want Toku to become more mainstream? | |||
Yes, more people would be great! | 52 | 46.43% | |
No, a smaller fandom is best. | 25 | 22.32% | |
I'm fine either way. | 35 | 31.25% | |
Voters: 112. This poll is closed |
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07-02-2021, 07:32 PM | #91 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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Quote:
it's no excuse for tokusatsu fans to debate about how to make tokusatsu more mainstream given the evidence that more American and native English-speaking audiences are watching more foreign-language TV dramas on streaming sites.
It still doesn't excuse the lack of debate in toku fans about how to make toku genre more mainstream or popular in the US. "It's just Power Rangers, we have that already." "Oh, we already have Marvel. That one's more 'mature' " or whatever. And to steer discussion to the title of this thread, I only display two positions on this. On one hand, yes, it's always nice to see a franchise become successful and get a larger following. On the other hand, the larger following is also the problem for me. What are the chances of x franchise growing bigger and as a result lose its original vision in favor of appealing to a wider audience? (tho, I trust Great Leader Shirakura in this lmao) Edit: I'd like to share a personal experience too that may also show why putting stuff like Rider in mainstream is a tad difficult. Does anyone remember when GMA, one of the bigger Filipino TV Channels, aired Kamen Rider OOO? SEA is probably Kamen Rider's 2nd largest market, what with us getting official distribution here and all. Anyway, OOO aired on GMA roughly 3-4 years after OOO originally aired in Japan. We got a big push for OOO, DX toys and vinyl figure showed up in markets, "Meet Kamen Rider Tatoba at this location!" (which is where you can see the stage show suit actually show up). It was nice seeing Kamen Rider go back to the main market around here. But here's what happened after a month. I walk into malls, I overhear people looking at OOO silly. "He's not Black! Why is he colorful?", "This is what happened to Kamen Rider? Where's the bug motif?", "He's ugly. Why do I need coins to transform? Octopus? When was Kamen Rider about seafood haha!" The toys went into deep discounts, clearance, what not. Reception with OOO was probably unfavorable which is why we never got anything else after. There's also that bit of where Syuichiro Naito getting stirred over his early behavior. Some people advocating for his removal in the show entirely. It's the result of a growing fanbase with no knowledge on what line they're supposed to not cross. It's disappointing. Last edited by TheRaizin; 07-02-2021 at 07:42 PM.. |
07-02-2021, 07:38 PM | #92 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Given that Netflix has leased Toho studio, I hope to see some original tokusatsu shows (one set should be aimed at kids, another for adult). I would love it if Toei or Tsuburaya companies can work on Netflix on creating Netflix original tokusatsu shows for worldwide audiences. Disney+ and HBO Max will one way or another launch in Japan too in the near future. So I expect some original Japanese content (meaning original tokusatsu shows) made for Disney+ and HBO Max's Japanese launch. I mean if you're going to launch these 2 in Japan, you need original content made for Japanese market. Original Japanese content for Disney+ and HBO Max will include original tokusatsu shows for those platform. Last edited by mdo7; 07-02-2021 at 07:46 PM.. Reason: Adding clarity. |
07-02-2021, 07:43 PM | #93 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 112
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Quote:
It is, actually. You have to understand and navigate through the culture here. I'm fairly sure there are a good number of people working in these kinds of industries who will look into stuff like Rider, Garo and Sentai and immediately look the other way. It really doesn't matter what the content is if the surface-level presentation looks the way it is. Especially when its competitors are much larger empires like Marvel, DC, and Star Wars.
I mean have you ever watch any K-dramas? Have you ever watched any wuxia/kung fu drama from China? Have you ever watched any sci-fi/fantasy shows that isn't in English and not from Japan? That's why I revive this topic, it's because South Korea has been making fantasy/sci-fi TV dramas that borderline to tokusatsu territory. The same can be said about wuxia C-dramas. Netflix has been picking those shows/dramas up for worldwide audiences, and yet tokusatsu fandom are falling behind while US and English-speaking audiences are enjoying Korean fantasy/sci-fi shows/dramas and Chinese-language wuxia shows on Netflix (and other streaming platform). You're telling me this doesn't bother you at all? |
07-02-2021, 07:48 PM | #94 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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Quote:
It really don't. |
07-02-2021, 07:51 PM | #95 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 112
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07-02-2021, 08:09 PM | #96 |
Fangirl-Type Humagear
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 703
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Uh... I understand being frustrated at the lack of official English releases for toku, but taking that anger out on K-dramas and that fandom makes no sense. They're different genres, they're not even from the same country (the K literally stands for Korean), the only thing they have in common is not being in English. You might as well ask why fans of Spanish telenovelas or Swedish crime dramas don't branch out into toku.
The shows Rider, Sentai, Ultraman etc. would be competing with are western superhero shows. If you need to blame someone for Kamen Rider not being on Netflix (besides Netflix for just choosing not to pick it up), blame Marvel and DC for how much space they take up in the superhero market, and for their constant pushing of reboots, remakes and recycled ideas that hinder anything new or different.
__________________
The mask you wear by choice shows more about you than the face you were given by chance. |
07-02-2021, 09:03 PM | #97 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Uh... I understand being frustrated at the lack of official English releases for toku, but taking that anger out on K-dramas and that fandom makes no sense. They're different genres, they're not even from the same country (the K literally stands for Korean), the only thing they have in common is not being in English. You might as well ask why fans of Spanish telenovelas or Swedish crime dramas don't branch out into toku.
The shows Rider, Sentai, Ultraman etc. would be competing with are western superhero shows. If you need to blame someone for Kamen Rider not being on Netflix (besides Netflix for just choosing not to pick it up), blame Marvel and DC for how much space they take up in the superhero market, and for their constant pushing of reboots, remakes and recycled ideas that hinder anything new or different. I'm upset and baffled that toku fandom aren't bother by the recent development in K-drama production when it comes to sci-fi/fantasy genre. You have sci-fi/fantasy K-drama that are borderlining to tokusatsu territory and those set of K-dramas are winning English-speaking American audiences of all race, while tokusatsu shows aren't getting the same love that sci-fi/fantasy K-dramas are getting in the US. It's not only K-dramas, but wuxia C-dramas (which too have been compared to tokusatsu from time to time) are also winning US audiences too thanks to streaming like Netflix and Prime Video. Many anime fans in early 2000's branch out to become K-dramas fans because of Korean adaptation of Boys over Flowers, Itazura Na Kiss, and City Hunter, and I assumed many tokusatsu fans would also become fans of K-dramas and wuxia C-drama because in the mind of tokusatsu fans, live-action stuff with martial art from Japan looks cool, so I assume people that watched tokusatsu would likely be the one watching wuxia drama because it had martial arts and tokusatsu-style special effect. But it looks like it wasn't the case and I was baffled. The problem is that you got K-dramas and wuxia C-dramas borderlining to tokusatsu territory and nobody in tokusatsu fandom ever brought this up. That's what I'm complaining about and it baffled me. I mean we have people comparing Kamen Rider to Marvel and DC Superheroes. But nobody in toku fandom want to talk about the special effect in a Chinese wuxia show being compared to the special effect found in tokusatsu. That's what upset me the most. |
07-02-2021, 09:21 PM | #98 |
Alias: ZeroEnchiladas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,570
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It's clear your main point is trying to prod us by asking "If it bothers us" because that's the same thing you've repeated numerous times.
So I'll give my answer, it doesn't really bother me because I hadn't thought about it until now. And even still it doesn't bother me because well, I'm enjoying Tokusatsu just fine, if more people enter into it? Cool, that's neat. More people to talk with, or avoid, depends. But really I'm just sitting her and enjoying the shows that come up weekly because that's really all I care about. Community interaction is fun though, which is why I've been a lot more active lately on this forum. But yeah, I'm not really bothered because, it doesn't affect me if I'm being frank. |
07-02-2021, 09:40 PM | #99 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Texas, USA
Posts: 112
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Quote:
It's clear your main point is trying to prod us by asking "If it bothers us" because that's the same thing you've repeated numerous times.
So I'll give my answer, it doesn't really bother me because I hadn't thought about it until now. And even still it doesn't bother me because well, I'm enjoying Tokusatsu just fine, if more people enter into it? Cool, that's neat. More people to talk with, or avoid, depends. But really I'm just sitting her and enjoying the shows that come up weekly because that's really all I care about. Community interaction is fun though, which is why I've been a lot more active lately on this forum. But yeah, I'm not really bothered because, it doesn't affect me if I'm being frank. Why does it bother me? Because I know many anime fans that branch out to K-dramas and these same K-dramas fans branch out to wuxia C-dramas because of certain C-dramas being similar to Korean dramas. I never seen any K-dramas and wuxia/C-dramas migrating or branching out to tokusatsu fandom. Because of anime fans branching out to K-dramas, I assume this was the same for tokusatsu fandom. I assume many tokusatsu fans would've eventually branch out to Korean and wuxia C-dramas because of the curiosities about live-action stuff from Asia. I don't see any overlap between K-dramas, and Wuxia fans and tokusatsu fans. One fandom is not helping one another branching out to each other fandom. In other word, I'm not seeing a Super Sentai fan helping a fan of Kingdom to branch out to toku shows. And I'm not seeing evidence of a toku fans finding their way into wuxia dramas show. I never seen any toku fans discussing about how to bring fans of K-dramas and wuxia dramas into tokusatsu circle despite evidence of anime fans branching out to K-dramas. |
07-02-2021, 09:41 PM | #100 |
Reiei
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 3,691
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I'll have to request to stop the private messaging now. I'm going to make my final one here and it'll be where it ends for me and I'll stop dwelling on it. I'm going to try simplify it a lil bit for my sake too, by attempting to separate your questions.
1. I never seen any toku fan help K-drama fans branch out to tokusatsu shows. I've seen K-drama fans branch out to Taiwanese dramas, Chinese dramas, but not tokusatsu shows. I've seen fans of K-dramas branching out and watching Ice Fantasy, but not Kamen Rider or Ultraman. - You have to understand that it's easier for K-drama fans to swap between Taiwanese, Chinese, and Japanese dramas because of their genre. The general audience might not care what country is the show from, as long as they get their story of love, tragedy, comedy, etc. It helps these are all asian shows with appealing taent in nature. Kamen Rider, Sentai, Ultraman is different because it's an entirely new territory of super heroes in suits, the main focus isn't who's the actor, though it may help. The focus are the toys and the heroes. Again, navigate the culture. Maybe you might see people branching out from Toku to other dramas, Garo might be that bridge, but it's a very rare occurrence because the demographic is clearly different. 2. it's because some of these fantasy/sci-fi K-drama and wuxia C-drama would have caused tokusatsu fans discussing and talking about should these be considered as tokusatsu. There may be discussion, albeit vary obscure. I don't most are going to think which ones are toku or not, since the main view is that Ultraman, Rider, Sentai, Garo, Gridman, etc are the ones considered Toku. People in very bright costumes with heavy use of special effects, tales of super heroes. That's the general view. 3.You're telling me that no K-drama or wuxia fans branch out to tokusatsu, and you're telling me that no toku fans have made no attempt to help K-drama and wuxia fans branch out to tokusatsu shows. May be an obscure occurrence that only happens in smaller social circles. It'll be rare for such fans to communicate with one another in connecting to one another, as they'll barely relate or maybe one side will not reciprocate the assist of the other. The common K-Pop/Drama is largely different from a Kamen Rider fan. An overlap may be more common if that fan has relations to someone who is a fan of the other and the two communicate about their interests. Example: A Drama fan may take interest in Atsuhiro Inukai, especially because of his involvement in dramas. A Toku friend recommends them Kamen Rider Build, one where he is prominent. The drama fan can answer in three ways. Either they become disinterested and just watch his other works, watch Build but ignore the toku elements and focus on the role of Inukai (this has a chance of them dropping the show), or actually watching Build and enjoying it. I find the 1st and 2nd option more likely. I had an English teacher whom was a fan of Kamen Rider Black (obviously lmao) and K-Dramas as well. When I approached him about Kamen Rider, he said he's not watching Rider anymore, and just sticks to K-Drama since it's more 'serious', since these days Rider is "wacky". I tried to persuade him with Zero-One, with points like "Look! He's a grasshopper again! Look, this, that, this". I failed to convince him. Maybe Rider just looks childish to a lot of people now. 4.Also doesn't it bother you that Netflix are not picking up tokusatsu shows from Japan for worldwide streaming That depends whether Netflix wants to approach Toei to put their show on the platform or vice versa. Toei's main target audience are japanese children. They're main focus is them, their shareholders, the profits and revenue, depend on them. As I said before, their secondary market is likely the rest of Asia, like SEA. Because there is official distribution. Marketing towards the west, is likely not a big thing for them and is more of a side thing. "But we buy toys from them too!" Ah, but let me ask this. Where do you buy them? Amiami? HLJ? Tokucollector? Amazon JP? It's the Japanese companies buying them for stocks and then shipping them to you, only it's your money that's giving them the money to give to Bandai. In effect, the revenues are still Japanese in nature. Official distribution is where one can consider the sales to be foreign, I believe. 5. Many anime fans in early 2000's branch out to become K-dramas fans because of Korean adaptation of Boys over Flowers, Itazura Na Kiss, and City Hunter, and I assumed many tokusatsu fans would also become fans of K-dramas and wuxia C-drama because in the mind of tokusatsu fans, live-action stuff with martial art from Japan looks cool, so I assume people that watched tokusatsu would likely be the one watching wuxia drama because it had martial arts and tokusatsu-style special effect. But it looks like it wasn't the case and I was baffled. Like I said, Anime/Manga is a different, larger beast. An anime fan can branch to Drama shows if anime he watched got a live action adaptation and they enjoyed it. A Drama fan can branch to anime if they watched this drama and he saw an anime of it. Anime is an easier pill to swallow as opposed to Toku, especially with the current climate's push to anime. Here's another thing, yes, a lot of us love to see the action and martial arts in Toku. It's amazing to see the suit actors do their thing, but the general audience likely won't care about these details. They want to see the hero beat the bad guy in any shape or form. A bigger fan of stunts and theatrics like that may be able to get catered to by these K/C-Dramas particular to action. But the general fan who just wants to watch the superhero isn't going to watch this K/C-Drama just because this guy can also do it too. The charm of the man in the cool superhero suit is gone. I hope I answered your questions. These are my experiences with such, and as such some elements may be untrue for some or largely different. |
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