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03-11-2022, 01:17 PM | #41 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Though did he talk about being 'demon king' instead of being tyrant? (I watched this on local TV with dubs, so there'd be no subs) Because the term demon doesn't always mean figuratively, it can mean literally as if Sougo becomes someone that is demonic-looking/vibe/darkness power but is good despite the outer look.
Like, declaring yourself to be King -- Demon or otherwise -- is a very bad thing! It's like having a dream of owning a sweatshop. It's not the impossibility or the anachronistic parts that bother me, it's that it's an immoral thing to want to be.
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03-11-2022, 01:48 PM | #42 |
Some guy. I'm alright.
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03-11-2022, 01:56 PM | #43 |
Standing By
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(opens Oma Advent Calendar and gestures dramatically)
IWAE! Sharing opinions and bringing the Kamen Rider community together, the one who will review every episode of every season of Heisei Rider. His name is Kamen Rider Die. And he has now reached the final installment. .... But before I can give my thoughts on Zi-O, I have a promise to keep from the Decade thread. Quote:
And yeah, that means I have now watched all 20 Heisei Rider seasons! Quote:
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KAMEN RIDER ZI-O EPISODE 1 - ?KINGDOM: 2068?
But Sougo? I can?t get a handle on him, as a character? Not even as a protagonist or a hero or a lead, but as a character. He wants to be a king, but like, as a career? That?s ludicrous. I?ve seen plenty of ridiculous motivations in Kamen Rider (and I love Tsurugi, who is a preposterous bundle of Bizarre Achievements in an ascot), but this is beyond the pale. You cannot study to become a king. You can?t fill out an application to be a monarch. There isn?t a good school to major in the regency arts. It?s the sort of stupid, stupid motivation that I normally adore, because the thought process behind it is usually so specific and bonkers that I am enthralled. Tsurugi?s quest to be the Best At Besting is drawn from his traumas, his desires, his isolation, his responsibilities, his etc. But Sougo wants to be a king? because it seemed like a good idea? As a defining trait goes, it?s terrible. It?s an absence of definition for his character. It?s generic: I Want This instead of I Want This Because. There?s room in the episode for it to be purposefully generic, certainly. The overriding feeling of the episode is that of inevitability, that Sougo couldn't ever become anything other than the King Of Time(pieces), and that outcome has trickled backward to his present. But it?s never portrayed as a burning drive, or a path he can?t veer away from. It?s portrayed as perfunctory; a concept as necessary for reflection and analysis as blinking. Becoming king ? something utterly ridiculous ? is treated as an autonomic process. It is a crucial mistake in the introduction of Sougo, and it?s, sadly, only the first crucial mistake this episode makes. The second one is in the way this episode never really pushes back on Sougo?s motivation? His friends and family (an uncle, since it?s Heisei Phase 2 and All Dads Are Dead) shrug it off as some quirk, like Takumi?s dislike of hot foods in Faiz, rather than an absolutely terrifying life choice for a teenager to be making. When someone says that they don?t want to take college entrance exams because they?re going to be a king, that?s bad! That isn?t a life choice! That is them throwing their life away! You don?t follow up that declaration with a cute anecdote about not letting chances pass you by! You follow that up with an intervention! Regarding why he wants to become a king, well there is a reason for that. But Sougo isn't always the most open about his feelings and doesn't really feel the need to justify his intentions to people he just met. What's important though is that becoming a king is Sougo's dream, no matter how absurd it sounds. So when he replies to the revelation that his future self is a demon king, by saying he's going to become the greatest kindest demon king, I think that's just his way of saying he's going to follow his dream, which can be a symbol of heroic determination. There's a hint of sarcasm to his declaration, like he's rejecting what Geiz and Tsukuyomi are saying as he believes in the altruism of his dream and that giving up his dream isn't an action befitting of a future king. It's like he says, he was born to be king, so it isn't really a choice, or an action that some time travelling weirdos can make him reconsider. It's something he feels like he just has to do. He lives in the moment, so he's not going to let their dystopian future get in the way of his present. Haha, yeah, she does that. Anyway, there's a cool and macabre detail at the end of the episode where Geiz Ghost Armor Time summons the Parka Ghosts to fight Zi-O. One of them is Takeru's own soul, Ore Parka. Which makes sense considering that Oma Zi-O killed all the Riders. Quote:
Actually there's one thing I don't think was mentioned?
How does everyone feel about our OP for this season? Over Quartzer. I personally enjoy it and there are certain shots I absolutely adore, like everyone in the "Mid-Rider Kick Dimension" where they're just looking and poking at things. Or how we see Zi-O and Geiz kick past all the other Riders who immediately proceed to kick all at once after they do. And then out of the flames of that you see Zi-O riding his bike. Real good stuff honestly! I never really got a chance to appreciate the visuals due to all the text on screen but thankfully that All Heisei Rider Clean OP that Toei officially put up allowed me to take in the really cool shots since those had no credits.
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03-11-2022, 02:12 PM | #44 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
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Regarding why he wants to become a king, well there is a reason for that. But Sougo isn't always the most open about his feelings and doesn't really feel the need to justify his intentions to people he just met. What's important though is that becoming a king is Sougo's dream, no matter how absurd it sounds. So when he replies to the revelation that his future self is a demon king, by saying he's going to become the greatest kindest demon king, I think that's just his way of saying he's going to follow his dream, which can be a symbol of heroic determination. There's a hint of sarcasm to his declaration, like he's rejecting what Geiz and Tsukuyomi are saying as he believes in the altruism of his dream and that giving up his dream isn't an action befitting of a future king. It's like he says, he was born to be king, so it isn't really a choice, or an action that some time travelling weirdos can make him reconsider. It's something he feels like he just has to do. He lives in the moment, so he's not going to let their dystopian future get in the way of his present.
(Like, the problem for me with Sougo continues to be that his reactions are all massively minor. The show goes to steps to make the stakes of this story crystal clear, and Sougo's, like, Meh. He doesn't seem to be treating this series with the same concern as literally every other character, and I really dislike it. Hopefully that changes!)
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03-11-2022, 02:37 PM | #45 |
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That part is about appreciating and praising her btw .
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03-11-2022, 03:47 PM | #46 |
I have a problematic type
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Personally, on my "Stuff I Didn't Like About Zi-O" and "Stuff I Liked About Zi-O" lists (and yes, the latter does exist), Tsukoyomi is... kind of absent from both. I always tend to think of her "inoffensively present" most of the time.
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03-11-2022, 04:39 PM | #47 |
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Yeah. Her main issue is that while they have an arc for her, it depended entirely on a design for ?the resolution? and it took them over half the series to settle on one, at least according to an interview with the writer and producer in the official Mook.
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03-11-2022, 07:28 PM | #48 |
The Immortal King Tasty
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Zi-O is a really special Kamen Rider series to me for a lot of reasons. Er, uh, well I guess they *all* are, but you know what I mean. I'll try and reminisce about as many of those reasons as I can as the thread moves along, and to start off with, I'm introducing my own regular feature for this thread -- a little something I like to call...
(Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Zi-O - EP01) See, one of the biggest things about Zi-O that gives it such a big place in my heart is the experience of posting my thoughts every week in the episode threads at the time. I feel that was more or less where I truly started solidifying how I like to write these sorts of things. I posted in every Ex-Aid episode thread, but a lot of those were just bullet-pointed lists of whatever minor thoughts. In Build's case, I ended up skipping out on a solid handful of episodes. But for Zi-O, I made it a point to really try and dig into the show each week as best I could, and you'll see that as the show went along, I generally got more thorough about it. ...And you'll see it fairly easily too, if you're already reading this, because just like above, I'm planning on making a link to those posts with each episode Die gets to. There'll be some orphaned references to chatter from other users here and there, but I don't know, just take that as an excuse to dig through the entire thread or something. I mean, if you actually care what my raw impressions of Zi-O from 3+ years ago were, you'd probably find everyone else's interesting too. The funny thing is though, I don't at all remember why I was so eager to attach myself to Zi-O from the outset? Off the top of my head, the only thing I vividly remember about the pre-airing hype window of the show was how profound it felt when I realized that Zi-O -- the guy with "Kamen Rider" literally written on his face -- seemed downright plain after the designs we had been getting in the back half of the Heisei Era. More specifically, it made me realize how far Ex-Aid had actually pushed things. Basically no lead Rider design reveal could ever faze me again. Perhaps I was simply caught up in the whole end of an era hype or something. I do know a lot of things about the series seemed extremely interesting though, and I was definitely excited to see where all this madness was going. As such, I really enjoyed the premiere. Me and Zi-O got off on the right foot, for sure... but I wasn't too sure about that Sougo kid. Die, I'm not going to push back too hard on your opinion of the premiere, because I was actually in a similar position too, but I will say, while the kind of things you're asking for would've made for a much better premiere, I firmly believe they also would've made for a far less unique and interesting series. All that weird stuff about Sougo, it's part of his mystique. Your critiques of him are things I would unironically praise (*especially* the contradictory nature of being a good evil king), and hopefully you'll learn to see that other side of him in time too. I've got a feeling this'll work out! Oh, and while this won't necessarily be a regular thing again, there's one particular thing about Zi-O I know I was *super* hyped about, and that's who was doing the soundtrack. Toshihiko Sahashi helped create this era of Rider on Kuuga, he continued that work on Agito, applied his musical talent yet again to Hibiki, gifted Den-O with an incredibly distinctive tone, and finally, he saw the Heisei Era of Kamen Rider to a close by providing the background music for this show as well. It's great. It's Sahashi, so of course it is. And right now, I'd just like to share Zi-O's basic theme music, and note how perfect it is. Sahashi nailed the whole maou vibe by giving Zi-O's motif that distinctly Egyptian sorta sound that instantly brings to mind a sense of royalty and grandeur, and more than that, the thing I utterly adore about the tracks directly associated with Zi-O is that they basically completely eschew any sort of traditionally heroic sound entirely. It was especially glaring coming off of Build, too, how rather than triumphant and energetic, Zi-O's fight music is often more foreboding than anything. Like, I really can't stress this enough -- it's pretty much an ideal musical summation of the sense of simultaneous wonder of Sougo's present, and the uneasy dread of his future.
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03-11-2022, 07:30 PM | #49 |
Reiei
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Gonna say, yeah, he currently doesn't understand the severity of his ambitions are for the moment. It's not until a certain guest rider does he do that
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03-11-2022, 07:44 PM | #50 |
Precure enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Amongst the Cosmos
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Yo I know we're really all excited to start Zi-O together, but I think we need to cool down a bit? This post and some others are really pushing the boundaries of the "no teasing/no spoilers" rule, yknow?
Last edited by cosmicrescend0; 03-11-2022 at 07:48 PM.. |
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