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09-27-2016, 11:12 AM | #21 |
Let's make this showy!
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: USA
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Well Ryuki, is the series that made Dragon Knight possible, and Dragon Knight proved to me that 4kids isnt all trash
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09-27-2016, 12:02 PM | #22 |
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Posts: 4,403
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TMNT proved that in 2003. Dragon Knight (along with TMNT at the time) just proves that 4Kids treats anything that's not trash like trash.
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09-27-2016, 12:57 PM | #23 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
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I can sort of see your point, though I'm not sure about Blade since it's been awhile since I've seen the show. I thought most of the conflict between Tachibana and Kenzaki revolved around misunderstandings moreso than actual beef between them as people though.
Really though, I'd say that the trend you describe stems more from an overall trend with toku than specifically Ryuki and mostly because of more anti-heroic characters being introduced, something that dates back as far as V3 if we're talking specifically Rider. I guess I'm just a bit too confused about what exactly the question this thread is asking even is at this point. I never was good with speculation like this. I understand that a lot of the stuff in Ryuki was influenced by the times and/or derived from existing base concepts, but my whole perspective here is all of that is why Ryuki HAS to exist. Like, we're pretending Ryuki didn't happen and then...? A show that's basically the same thing takes its place? Because that's just calling a rose by another name, right? I feel like every Kamen Rider show was directly inspired by something or another but does that mean they're not special? Think about how often the concept/style/hero of a show is directly made to contrast with the last one in some way. Like, Gaim was a very deconstructive kind of show that tried really hard to gray its morality and they immediately followed it up with Drive, a show that played up the idea of Kamen Riders as real heroes in a way we hadn't seen in a while. It was even said in interviews they were going for a more Showa kind of flavor, as I remember. There's a whole meta narrative going on with Kamen Rider and I think you could argue a lot of things in it were "inevitable" in some way or another.
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09-27-2016, 01:02 PM | #24 |
Stronger Than You
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: nyet
Posts: 25,326
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The premise of the thread is if Ryuki didn't happen. Kuuga to Agito to Faiz. There is no replacement, there wasn't just a "Kamen Rider not-Ryuki" in it's place. It's as simple as that.
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09-27-2016, 01:33 PM | #25 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
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That's my whole point though. Ryuki is the connective tissue between Agito and Faiz. I'm sure they could've gone straight to Faiz from Agito, the possiblility is there, but I doubt they would've felt the impetus to without Ryuki testing the waters the way it did. At the very least, I feel Faiz and Blade would've been pretty different without it.
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09-27-2016, 03:28 PM | #26 |
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That's my whole point though. Ryuki is the connective tissue between Agito and Faiz. I'm sure they could've gone straight to Faiz from Agito, the possiblility is there, but I doubt they would've felt the impetus to without Ryuki testing the waters the way it did. At the very least, I feel Faiz and Blade would've been pretty different without it.
I mean, you have to consider that Agito and Faiz were both written by Inoue and he LOVES to have at least one total jerkass character that is "technically" heroic. In Agito, it was Hojo who was actually a part-time Rider in that show. In Faiz, it was Kaixa. In Blade, the 3 non-main riders took turns being jerks. As such, the progression to having a full-time Rider that is also a jerkass was pretty much expected. I mean, maybe the Ryuki influence is there, but it's probably a stretch to say Faiz would be drastically different if Ouja and Knight never existed.
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Last edited by MaskedRiderAsakura; 09-27-2016 at 03:32 PM.. |
09-27-2016, 03:33 PM | #27 |
Oldtaku
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Atlanta, Ga / Portland, Me
Posts: 855
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Yep. They hadn't yet figured out: More Riders = More Genkin!
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09-27-2016, 04:09 PM | #28 |
The Immortal King Tasty
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Quote:
I mean, you have to consider that Agito and Faiz were both written by Inoue and he LOVES to have at least one total jerkass character that is "technically" heroic. In Agito, it was Hojo who was actually a part-time Rider in that show. In Faiz, it was Kaixa. In Blade, the 3 non-main riders took turns being jerks.
As such, the progression to having a full-time Rider that is also a jerkass was pretty much expected. I mean, maybe the Ryuki influence is there, but it's probably a stretch to say Faiz would be drastically different if Ouja and Knight never existed. And just like everyone else, his problems are strictly with "Agito", the weird monster guy who keeps picking fights with other monsters, and not Shouichi, the guy selflessly fighting monsters to protect people. This is what I keep trying to get at about the relationships between Riders being so different. In Ryuki, Shinji doesn't get along with so many of the other Riders because their personalities are so different. Takumi and Kusaka don't get along for the same reasons. Kenzaki and Hajime don't get along for the reasons. Tendou and Kagami have a rocky relationship for the same reasons. In Agito, the other guys all have problems with Agito specifically because they know nothing about him. He's just another mysterious creature in their minds. The way you're talking about it you could pull out pretty much any one show without it affecting "the big picture", but I think it'd be easier to make the case that isn't true for Ryuki than it would be for most other shows. It was the result of the brand being in kind of a weird place and I don't think you can just "skip" to Faiz because without that year spent experimenting they might not have felt comfortable doing a lot of the stuff they did and calling it Kamen Rider.
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09-28-2016, 01:12 AM | #29 |
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Quote:
Quote:
And just like everyone else, his problems are strictly with "Agito", the weird monster guy who keeps picking fights with other monsters, and not Shouichi, the guy selflessly fighting monsters to protect people.
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This is what I keep trying to get at about the relationships between Riders being so different. In Ryuki, Shinji doesn't get along with so many of the other Riders because their personalities are so different. Takumi and Kusaka don't get along for the same reasons. Kenzaki and Hajime don't get along for the reasons. Tendou and Kagami have a rocky relationship for the same reasons. In Agito, the other guys all have problems with Agito specifically because they know nothing about him. He's just another mysterious creature in their minds.
Compare that with your other examples. The other Riders actually DO bicker with each other because they're different personalities, not just because one Rider happens to be on the villain's side (well, except for Hajime). Quote:
The way you're talking about it you could pull out pretty much any one show without it affecting "the big picture", but I think it'd be easier to make the case that isn't true for Ryuki than it would be for most other shows.
Quote:
It was the result of the brand being in kind of a weird place and I don't think you can just "skip" to Faiz because without that year spent experimenting they might not have felt comfortable doing a lot of the stuff they did and calling it Kamen Rider.
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09-28-2016, 02:55 AM | #30 |
Tokusatsu Hero
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 6,582
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Would Kamen Rider be any different if Ryuki never existed?
No. Due to the simple fact that something of it's kind would have eventually been made. Something like Ryuki was a inevitability in some form or fashion. Short, sweet, and simple. No need for long over drawn debates over reasons as to why. The answer is simply "inevitability".
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