Remember how I pointed out people felt Juuga could’ve come in earlier? Well, here’s another reason why. Despite being powerful enough to defeat almost literally every other Rider, Ikki and Vice are able to beat him with no trouble, almost as if he was a particularly tough monster of the week. Also, he didn’t get to show off that Legend Rider power gimmick that was in the videos I shared then.

And the hospital scene where everyone discusses Ikki being a busybody? Actually started a discussion here over Ikki really counts as a busybody. The general verdict was no, considering that busybodies stumble upon people with problems and make it their business to butt in and help them, whether they want to or not,, whereas Ikki actually advertises “come to me with your problems” and people do that with no reluctance, which makes him more of a handyman. A lot of people argued that Sougo was more of a busybody, but I’m going to give Revice more of the benefit of a doubt and say Yukimi came off as more of a busybody in Legacy Vail (and you’ll recall I didn’t even like that mini)

And finally, the reveal that the Weekend HQ was George’s childhood house… Surely he would’ve noticed or commented on this, if that were the case?

Ikki: It’s Ikki’s…

Vice: And Vice’s…

Both: Stamp Navi!

George is wheeled in, restrained with a mask and a straightjacket, with a ball and chain attached to both of his legs.

George: Is this really necessary?

Vice: Hey, you went and beat everyone up but me, Ikki and Papa-san. Ikki may think he saved your soul, but I ain’t taking chances.

Ikki: Whiel the loss of Aguilera, Over Demons and the Demons Troopers is a shame, let’s forget about that and move onto today’s Vistamp.

Twin Chimera!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=6dGuzBkyCY8

Sharp Scissors! Sudden Bite! Twin Chimera!

(Ikki is now in the Blade-based King Crab Genome, while Vice is on the Wizard based Crocodile Genome)

Vice: Oh, so this is what this stamp does for us. Or what the writer of this segment thinks it does for us.

Ikki: Twin Chimera combines the energies of both the King Crab and Crocodile Vistamps into one power. The result, in retrospect, should’ve tipped us off that Karizaki-san was up to something shady.

Scramble! King Crab, Crocodile, Kamen Rider Chimera! (Chimera)

George: That’s right. Kamen Rider Chimera was my first attempt at developing the Juuga system. The power was stolen by Chic, and then passed around to some poor kid, then to Ryu Mukai and then to that Nozomu Ohtani kid. What happened to him after he swore revenge?

Vice: He got his Driver stolen by Azuma and then Ikki’s dad talked him out of it.

Ikki: I have a dad?

George: Well, that feels like a disappointing waste of his potential… as a warrior. I’m sending him a new Driver first chance I get.

A man in a suit appears and hands Ikki an envelope, which he opens to reveal…

Ikki: (confused) 1000 in yen?

George: Yeah, that’s how much I bet that your sister wouldn’t last as a Rider until the last episode of the show.*

Ikki: I have a sister?

Vice: Oh dear. I hope you enjoy the next instalment.

Ikki: Instalment of what?

*See episode 12 of these skits if you’ve forgotten about this.

Yeah, this is the episode that made my disinterest and bordem with Ikki move into actual dislike.

Seriously, George should not have to forgive his deadbeat of a dad. The man has zero redeeming qualities, even if he means well. He never learned and repeated the same mistakes again and again. And if he had lived on, I'm convinced he'd continued on as if nothing happened. And Ikki got the audacity to tell George that it doesn't matter and, in the end, he loved him, so everything is ok now?

No! Just, no!

This man has hurt George more than he was ever good for him. If he wants to cut him out then that is his choice and potentially even a helpful one.

That said, George clearly acted out of line with his way of going about it.

But Ikki just drives me up the wall here. I get why he views it this way, but it once again is a "I know best!" situation and I hate that.

And I use this as a small springboard why the family stuff in Revice is utterly broken for me.

It's shallow.

So unimaginably shallow, filled with platitudes and nothing more.

Family makes you stronger! So George has to accept what his dad did because love.

No! That is not that easy show! Family can be an incredible rock that pushes you forward, but it can also hurt and break you!

Technically Revice talked about it with the Deadman cult but never with an actual blood family. It feels shallow, and I despise it, especially since I straight up think the Igarashi's are a toxic mess of a family that makes everything worse that they touch.

Hell, this episode made me jokingly say Ikki losing his memories may even be for the better since he wouldn't have to be around them any longer.

And speaking of the memory thing. I haven't talked about it much, which is mostly because it's irrelevant. It is nothing but a sign raised up with "forgetting!" whenever brought up and not an actual narrative tool.

It goes absolutely nowhere and doesn't inform or affect the plot in any way till the last four episodes.

I'm sorry, but that is embarrassingly badly handled. It ends underclocked and underdeveloped, eliciting at best an "Oh, they are finally doing something with this" or at worst, "Ehhh..." from me.

One of Revice's worst bungled plotlines, mostly because it's not a plotline; it's 2 points, not forgotten and forgotten.

Added to this is that it makes no sense.

Why is only Vice taking the memories?

How can he do it?

Why can't he control it?

The show never bothers to explain any of it and makes this come off as ungodly contrived. Everytime it comes up, the only thing I can think of how there is no actual thought put into it. It just is and I hate that!

So... yeah... maybe a bit more emotional than I thought I'd be about this one...

Sorry if I got a bit agitated here, this one really just sat wrong with me.

There are... definitely some big swings in George's portrayal over the series, yes. I'd like to think it's a matter of the production team not quite knowing how they wanted to utilize George throughout the show (antagonist, comedic protagonist), but the end result makes it difficult to invest in emotionally, at least for me.

I feel like he did know? When he ended up finding Weekend's HQ back in the day, I feel like he went Oh Shit This Is My House, and got upset that it was one more aspect of his childhood that Karizaki Sr didn't seem to care about. Nothing that was ever stated, if memory serves, but I think you could read into some of the earlier George Finds Weekend stuff.

(Also, of course, I do not think for a second that the producers thought of this house being the Karizakis house until a few episodes prior to 48.)

If I'm playing devil's advocate here (not Devil's advocate; that'd be the lawyer episodes from earlier in the season) I'd point out that most of what Ikki's talking about in his speech to George is that it's up to George to remember his father withe resentment over all of the many sleights, or with some happiness because they worked well together on the things that mattered to them most. Meanwhile, Ikki can't even remember his parents anymore. That makes George's wastefulness, his commitment to only vilifying a man he once admired and respected, more of a problem, because Karizaki Sr's dead: none of what George is doing can hurt that dude in any way. He's only hurting himself, and that's what Ikki's maybe trying to get at.

I think the show covered this in the past? Ikki made a contract with Vice to shield him from terrifying memories by taking them away, so Vice -- like it or not -- is now absorbing Ikki's memories every time they fight. Kagerou and Lovekov don't do the same thing because that's not the contract they made with their hosts. I imagine Ikki'd have to break the contract with Vice to stop it from happening anymore, but that would have its own set of horrifying consequences.

Either way, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts! I'm sure it wasn't easy or fun to bring all this back up!

I mean, that is technically the reason why, but I'm more asking, why? Why does Vice's contract specifcly need something like this while Kagero, a demon who was aiming to usurp his human and Lovekove, or even Vail don't?

The contract is a part of the Deadman, but even then, it's more becoming a monster than any actual contract with stipulations and a price. Even the contracts with Giff don't come with any real cost beyond your humanity.

So, it feels out of place. Like Ikki is an unexplained inigma the show ignores. And I can't look away from it xD

I know that is rich coming from someone who loves ZI-O given that show doesn't explain itself that much either, but still. It just feels, like a mistake to me.

But yeah, revice is... a frustrating experience through and through.

That said, we'll probably be getting to a piece of postshow content I can gush over. And that I'm very much excited about ^^

Well, the contract with a Devil isn't like a contract with a monster from Ryuki or an Imagin from Den-O; the Devil is an aspect of the person given external identity and form. Vice's deal to trade memories for power was crafted in the midst of a traumatic event, and represented Ikki's desire to hide away from the tragedy he was witnessing. Daiji and Sakura don't want those things, so their deals are different. As for the how and why of it as a mechanism... TOKU!

I guess, as said here, this actually fits Revice's theme about families, and Ikki's someone who values families and tried to keep their good relationship, whenever if it's his family or others. For example, the recently appeared Bon here, tried to make him get along with his grandfather. He was someone that also uses good family relationship as his guide for others to improve, starting with them first. He didn't use his family's well-being as an excuse to ignore, though he can be occassionally oblivious of other's needs when his family is happy, such as prioritizing Happy Spa over being a Rider, or their onsen moments. And now, he does it to the major dysfunctional family, the Karizakis. It fits the show theme, but like many other things in Revice, wish that the idea is executed better...

George's cause of world peace is only a front that he only wanted to spite on Masumi beyond the grave by proving his creations superior. Well, his prejudice towards demons would remain, so he'd destroy ViStamp-based (invented by Masumi) Rider system, and it's an irony as Masumi was prejudiced against demons before, like when he observed Ikki and Vice's growing relationship, and George took up that trait now. And as Juuga is purely human-based Rider system, now Ikki counters with how Giffard Rex ViStamp was a collaboration of George and his father, and thus if Ikki beats him, it'd prove that his father is important to George.

But, after Juuga's showing before that surpassed Giff, Juuga just got beaten by regular finisher by Ultimate Revi/Vice? So taking down Juuga is still anti-climatic too, despite (and especially) Juuga consistently gaining upper hand before like he should. Technically before Ultimate Revi/Vice didn't fight together against Juuga, is this something like W to show off teamwork? Final bosses are beaten without much problem when Shotaro and Philip got their act together (against both Terror and Utopia Dopants), and now, Ikki and Vice are complete, thus they're unbeatable. But W had W (and Accel, for Terror) being constantly in the upper hand in the boss' defeat, so the fight is consistent, unlike Revice here that had Juuga being on upper hand before finisher.

Other than that, to convince George that his father loved him, Ikki... absolved Masumi from his wrongdoings by glorifying him injecting Chic on him? What?? This is the type of solving parent-children conflict that should be avoided, like how Zi-O solves the Kamen Rider Quiz's problem with his father. It should really be emphasized that even if parents genuinely love their children, they can be misguided in showing it. Masumi injecting Chic on him shouldn't be condoned because Masumi loved him (which is true, but often used to absolve parents from their mistakes), it'd be better if what's used to remind George, are the flashback moments where Masumi was shown clearly getting along with kid George, helping and encouraging him to be better, and make it a case to not look past all the good things someone's done and only focus on one bad thing they've committed, countering the saying of “Men's evil manners live in brass; their virtues we write in water.”. Not only to remind George that he had received love from father in other times, but also to differentiate better which action is a genuine mistake and which one is actually malicious.

After neutrailizing the threat of Juuga, the solution is done by giving George the picture he draw with Masumi together when he was a child. And George finally acknowledges that Masumi loved him due to realizing that the ViStamp idea was inspired by those pictures, which he then breaks down in the regret that he can never make up with his father now. Realizing The True Value Of Something When You Lose It type. And seems that the pictures alone are enough, not the entire room Masumi kept for George. For their methods to try calming George back, surprisingly the comedy is involved here with Hiromi's frantic behavior, as well as once more his serious demeanor being played for laughs in something as simple as looking for documents. Then Vice using open sesame to try opening the door, and later of Vice inadvertently easily opening the door.

Regarding Ikki's busybody traits, this seems to be the kind of journey that comes full circle, both for Ikki and the other characters, though this doesn't mean they have something in them tested. Like for example, Shinji in Ryuki that had him being conflicted on stopping the Rider War or not due to the Rider's mortality or wishes, but ends up choosing to close the Mirror World even at the cost of their dreams (lol Ryuki comparison, after child doodling part here). Now Ikki's busybodiness is recognized as something benefical and admirable, with testaments from Tamaki, who acknowledged that he still lives due to Ikki. Though it's not only from Ikki intervening alone, it's also due to Ikki's sense of justice to try looking for solutions that doesn't involve killing. Ikki hasn't let go from his busybodiness completely, though he did get better at letting others handle their problems, but now, Daiji and Sakura supported Ikki's busybodiness due to the 2 reformed former villains being among the benefical effects of it. And not only the characters, I was puzzled too at Tamaki's impression of Ikki, but yeah it's still worth laughing over, it's harmless even if wrong.

This is a weird scenario where, unless someone else pops up in the next two episodes, the final boss isn't really the final threat. Juuga's important to defeat, but the real problem here is Ikki's vanishing memory. That's the thing that needs to be resolved for this series to have a happy ending, not beating up a son who missed having a final moment with his dad.

KAMEN RIDER REVICE EPISODE 49 - “AFTER THE BATTLE ENDS… ONLY THE DEMON REMAINS”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/.../revice49a.png

It’s nice that the show could end its run by treating Vice seriously.

I mean, sure, the climax of this episode involves Vice pretending he ate Ikki’s forgotten family, and he’s even covered in ketchup as fake blood. And sure, the middle section of this episode is a Wacky Roommates montage that lovingly evokes the first few stories these two shared, where a rambunctious devil was irritating a young man but they both came off like they loved it. But that’s all just sweetness to cover up what’s really going on here. It’s Vice truly becoming Ikki: sacrificing himself – and maybe even the memories he shared with his closest friend – as a way of saving his family.

It’s hilarious to think that Ikki as we knew him for a season is largely absent from this episode, since Vice so ably fills that role in the narrative now. He’s protecting his family, and getting overinvolved, and eventually forcing the issue that Ikki might attempt to dodge. This is, as a concluding installment for the Revice TV series, the most basic Day 1 Ikki story imaginable. I love that.

It’s not the tightest episode because of that, though. There’s as little a risk that Ikki has forgotten his family for good as there is a risk that Vice actually devoured Daiji and Sakura. (Yukimi… like, non-zero chance of that. He’s got a history of trying to eat her!) There might be consequences, but Ikki is definitely getting his memories back before the series concludes; we’re outright told that Ikki defeating Vice should resolve the contract and render it null and void. (I don’t… think this show understands how contracts work? If I sign a contract saying I’ll pay you $500 to build me a chair, and then you build me a chair, I don’t also get the $500 back at the end of the contract. That’s more me lending you something, not paying you something. Demon contracts are very peculiar!) So much of this generally enjoyable and occasionally somber episode is spent waiting for the shape of the resolution to reveal itself, and that’s gonna knock a few points off.

But I do like the resolution, that Vice needs to give himself up to save Ikki’s happiness. This was never a show where Vice turned bad, or feuded with Ikki in a serious way. There’s a wholesomeness to their dynamic that even Saber’s friendliness and empathy can’t touch. That this weirdly plotted show decided to put all their chips on Ikki Versus His Own Id But Out Of Kindness as the final story that got told… wild. That shit is WILD. Such a fun treat for those of us who hung around and put our faith in the creators to land this thing effectively.

Your mileage may vary, as it always does, as to whether this feels like an emotionally-fulfilling conclusion to Kamen Rider Revice. For me, it’s probably the only ending I can see myself enjoying. For a show about family and embracing every aspect of ourselves to then make the final conflict between family and embracing every aspect of ourselves… yeah. Yeah, that works for me.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/.../revice49b.png

So, the first thing we saw from this episode was that George would be part of the crowd watching the final fight… which, given that it came before the conclusion to the Juuga arc had aired, made it look like he got away with his actions with little more than a slap on the wrist. Which to be fair, is the way it is with a lot of Rider redemptions, which is probably why some people have grown tired of them (and probably why Geats hasn’t had any redemptions in its entire run, since Takahashi said in interviews that he felt the franchise had become stale and wanted to do something different)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2BDDD777E.jpeg

(Though to be fair, when I wrote that comment, I was watching Black Clover, in which the main hero insists that you’re not allowed to be forgiven for your actions until you’ve made up for what you did as a villain and show you’re genuinely remorseful)

And also, I did call Vice being the final boss long before it actually happened. Mostly because I had Yu-Gi-Oh VRAINS on my mind, wherein the same thing happens (and just I think that show did the discussion of humanity’s relationship with AI better than 01, I also think it handled the partner attacking the rest of the cast to seem like the bad guy better, in part because people were not keen on Destream’s second and final TV appearance being him defeated by a farting duck, but also because Ai both had a whole arc to beat the supporting cast and the fact he was doing it for the hero’s benefit was played as a twist, with him seeming to have genuinely turned)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6/IMG_4171.JPG

George: Hey, hey, hey! Yo, George Karizaki here. Since Ikki and Vice are having a bit of a spat right now, it falls to me to introduce this segment.

Ikki: Vice, what’s going on? Why’d you attack that old guy who says he’s my Dad?

Vice: Oh, that’s simple. He was the last obstacle I needed to dispose of for my secret master plan. (He pulls out a pair of Ultimate Vice plushies) I’m going to sell plush toys in my own likeness and name.

Ikki: Don’t you think you’re overestimating your appeal?

Vice: Oh no, Ikki. If anything, I’m UNDERestimating it. Once I’ve sold 14 million units, then I just wait for the kiddies and otaku to use the included Vistamps to stamp themselves in a role play moment. And in a few hours, each of them will birth two Vicetarians per stamp. With 4 times as many of my kids as humans, I’ll take over the whole world in a matter of days and clean out the human problem without there being a war. So what do you say? Can I put you down for an order? They make great gifts.

Ikki: Vice, I-

George: Hold up. Do you guys mind putting this on hold for one more of these features?

Ikki: Okay, we’ll do this week’s Vistamp together, one last time.

Tri Chimera!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=HNUNkGAC6A0

A Tangled Mollusc! A Horn to Penetrate! A Hundred Rampaging Legs! Tri Chimera!

Vice: This stamp mixes up the powers of the stamps for Drive, Ghost and Kabuto. That makes it three times as versatile as one of our regular Vistamps.

George: Which is probably why my daddy’s demon Chic chose to give it to this guy.

Scramble! Octopus! Kurosai! Oomukade! Kamen Rider Daimon, Daimon, DAIMON!

George: Kamen Rider Daimon, Azuma. One of Giff’s surviving loyalists from his original arrival in the past, he persisted to the present day through the same immortality method as Akaishi, deeming himself humanity’s judge. But following Giff’s resurrection and subsequent demise, his immortality ran out, so he tried turning himself into a Kamen Rider with Giff’s Eye to restore it.

Ikki: Now that I do remember. He didn’t succeed and ended up dying in the attempt. Now then, back to business. (Turns to Vice) Vice, we took down Giff and the Deadmans together. Why would you do this?

Vice: You keep using these words “we” and “us”, as if we were equals. When in fact, if it weren’t for me, you’d be helpless against Aguilera before she snapped. I defeated Giff. You were just the guy to make the story more appealing to an audience of human children.

Ikki: Even if you think that, I don’t think you’d want to destroy everything we fought for. There must be a way to settle this.

Vice: Don’t you see? You have two choices. You can either let me run wild, with your memories as they are, but I’ll be able to conquer this planet and win the war in seconds. Or you can fight me, wipe me out the same way your little bro did with his demon, killing the cells in the Mini-Mes simultaneously, and get your memories back, but you’ll forever live with the fact you have unresolved issues, like he almost did.

Ikki: My issues are fairly long-standing. If they’re unresolved, so be it. I’m going to take you down, stop your plan, and reclaim my life. (He takes out the Giffard Rex Revi Stamp)

Vice: I knew you’d make this interesting. (Takes out the Giffard Rex Vice Stamp) One final showdown between us. Let’s test your luck.

Both transform wordlessly and run in to begin fighting each other.

George: Looks like things are getting heated up here. We hope you enjoy the FINAL instalment.

Self production notes: A lot of the dialogue in this skit is lifted from the Yu-Gi-Oh episode in the screen cap above, such as the “overestimating your appeal” exchange, Vice asking Ikki if he wants to buy his product after describing how evil it is and insisting that he did everything. The most significant change was that Ai was selling androids with copies of his AI rather than plush toys, but both the end result (killing off humanity through sheer force of numbers) and the way to stop them (killing the original) are the same.

And now, I’ll let Momoi Taro preview the next episode.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5F2AFFBF5A.jpg

Yeah, I know and this is common people's take of why Juuga happens, it's to accelerate Ikki's amnesia, which actually is a case of conflict ball done to proceed the story (and as some said, anyone can take George's place here). Doesn't change the argument that he still shouldn't be downgraded as a bit more than MOTW to do that, especially due to how this starts so late, or that usual KR padding for the series to end in 50 (igarashi) episodes.

I'd tolerate Vice's antics in this episode, as unlike many other cruel to be kind approaches, this one's genuinely has no other solution to solve Ikki's problem (while other cruel to be kind scenario got the audience, or sometimes people, subjectively paint that method as the only way), as per how the contract worked, and for here, hating Vice is the main objective here, instead of the usual side effect of someone being cruel to be kind. And perhaps, there are no real damage done to everyone, other than emotional damage to Ikki alone. Though I predicted it, I genuinely laughed too seeing Sakura and Yukimi holding ketchup bottles at the end. Other than that, this is also a display of teamwork done by all the cast (except Ikki), to have everyone being onboard with Vice's plan to return Ikki's memories, and have each of them serve their roles well, probably even some of the civilians there. The cast perhaps can make a good movie/TV show team too by this!

Turns out George still appeared after last seen breaking down over Masumi, and not only that the "date" Hiromi asked him before actually happened here, he's quite significant here to use his scientist knowledge to theorize something (which he didn't do so due to being temporarily villainous). About how the contract between Ikki and Vice hasn't ended because .... and Ikki previously acknowledged Vice as something more than a partner, family.

That'd be normally touching, if not for how it's the actual cause of the tragedy in this episode. Though the amnesia arc is quite a waste especially for Ikki's role, I do feel bad at how in Ikki's POV here, Vice is truly the scumbag he despised at the beginning of the series, though now he had hard time accepting it due to Vice being his actual partner for so long. It personally hits home for me as, though I often assume the worst of people, that assumption turning to be the truth is also my biggest fear, and Ikki would go through that here regarding how he hated Vice at first for justified reasons.

Ikki not being able to fit in with his family and later leaving them also at least increases the impact of Ikki's amnesia, despite that it's only him forgetting, not others. The Igarashis trying to get him back is a more difficult task than imagined, and it requires more than just reminding him that they're his family, but also reminding him of their quirks, banters, etc. A̶t̶ ̶l̶e̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶A̶r̶u̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶e̶a̶c̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶I̶z̶u̶ ̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶n̶d̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶Z̶e̶r̶o̶-̶O̶n̶e̶.̶ A loss of a family member would be hard to swallow, even if it's only one member, and now, it'd be what potentially happened to Ikki, had he killed Vice and that his memories would return by that.

So Ikki's amnesia stuff is only used to wrap-up the story. Kinda explains why it's so little brought up before, despite it being the lead character's arc. Now I know the reason why it's so left out, but this doesn't change my view of how it's another Revice wasted potential that it made Ikki seem overshadowed in the 2nd half of the show instead (after what I think, is a good MC potential of exploring hero complex problems). This isn't saying it's a bad part of Ikki but saying that this should be done in more prevalent part of the series than just using it as a closure.

I hope I do, too! Thanks for the fun skit!

Tamaki and Genta's shirts, though! Those stains are never coming out!

Random question for Die. Do you think the plot of this show could've worked for an elseworld scenario for Venom with Genta's story being used for an elseworld Eddie Brock? I ask cause I am aware Eddie's son became Venom as well at one point and stuff in the books and Revi especially resembles a pink and cyan Venom despite being modeled after a T-rex. :lolol
That and Vice is pretty much a symbiote as a demon imo. :lolol

Huh! I don't see why not (Extreme Venomverse is turning out a ridiculous number of alternate Venoms right now), but I think the alterations necessary to support an Eddie/Dylan version would mean abandoning a lot of the motivations for Genta and Ikki. You'd basically be in a version where the leads are Karizaki Sr and George, instead. It'd be a lot more about familial curses and leveraging wounds to protect yourself, and that's not quite Revice. Definitely some similarities, though!

KAMEN RIDER REVICE EPISODE 50 - “FAMILY TO THE END, UNTIL THE DAY WE MEET AGAIN”

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/.../revice50a.png

I don’t know if I’m 100% on board with this ending, but I’m trying to get there.

Production-wise, it’s flawless. The final battle of the show is two best friends – family members – having a goofy brawl through their relationship, in hopes of creating a happier future. It’s not a gritted-teeth Final Showdown, like a lot of shows would go to; it’s play, pure and simple. This is the final fight of Kamen Rider Revice, but it’s also a last bit of fun for Ikki and Vice. How the show visualizes that as laughter and tears and memories and farts and bike rides and almost every suit and all of the cast laughing along with them… I literally can’t think of a better finale right now, and I’m trying. (Well: bench.) It’s joyous in its celebration of everything Ikki and Vice meant to each other, and tearful in its need to say… well, not goodbye. Not really goodbye.

It’s a finale that’s more about closing one chapter and starting another, rather than trying to be anything definitive for anyone in the cast. (There’s even a post-credit cameo by The Star Of The Stars Of The Stars, to let you know that Kamen Rider Revice will be back in front of an audience before too long.) There’s a sense that Vice leaving is letting Ikki spread his wings now as an adult, and it’s okay for him to be on his own. That’s the part I’m having trouble with.

The idea that Vice is holding back Ikki’s development is a weird one, even if it feels like it fits well within the context of the last few episodes. Yukimi and Genta view Vice's sacrifice as proof of Ikki’s emotional growth and maturity – a first step into adulthood – even though Vail didn’t exactly go anywhere over the last couple decades. Daiji and Sakura wonder when their own maturity will render their demons unnecessary, and that feels like the same misguided trap that almost drove Daiji insane. It’s an overall view of Ikki and Vice’s bond as codependent that I just sort of can’t see in the way the show probably wants me to.

Ikki and Vice are family, and it’s not like the show said that Ikki needed to leave his family behind in order to be his best self. (Far from it, as the episode lovingly recreates the smiling family of the opening credits in a brief cleaning scene.) Vice leaving is a tragic consequence, and not one that even needs to stick around. Ikki doesn’t need Vice’s protection from tragedy any longer, but Vice ended up being so much more than that over the course of the show. A happy ending where Vice is gone feels incomplete, and no amount of foreshadowing can make up for that. It’s bittersweet in a way that I’m not entirely sure is intentional, because I’m not super clear on how Ikki becomes a better person without Vice around.

It makes for an emotionally messy conclusion, where characters are saying things that seem right for the scene, and wrong for the series. I was onboard with Vice’s sacrifice and Ikki’s embrace of his buddy’s resolve, but then the comments from the rest of the Igarashis felt tone-deaf and mildly disrespectful. So much hard work is done to honor the Revice partnership, and all it accomplished, which is then slightly squandered by concocting a silver lining for this cloud.

I wish I loved the second half of this episode as much as I loved the first half. I still think there’s some cute and funny stuff in the back section (the show belatedly remembering Hikaru exists!), but I wish the show did a better job of explaining why it’s necessary for Vice to be gone when it’s wrong for Ikki’s other family members to be gone. If the show had landed on Vice being a tragic loss that created a happier future, fine, yes, absolutely; if the show wants to suggest Ikki’s better off not having Vice around, I start to check out.

But overall, I did like this final episode. It’s so on its own wavelength, and I love it for that. It’s an utterly unique celebration of a show so many people disliked, so much so that I laughed a little at the closing appreciation for the audience’s support. (God help any future series that gets this kind of "support"!) But I think it’s a flawed show that created a lot of goodwill with me, and a collection of characters that had so many unexpected moments of brilliance that I’m more than okay with a chunk of this episode giving them delightful sendoffs. It was a good show, and this was a good ending.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/.../revice50b.png

The final throwdown between Ikki and Vice is one of my favorite final battles in all of Kamen Rider, possibly just behind Kenzaki and Hajime's last confrontation. A lot of it comes down to the fact that I'm a pet guy; I've had some combination of dogs and cats for most of my life. Last year was actually pretty rough, in fact, because I had to put my cat to sleep - it'll be a year to the day in a couple weeks, actually. There's a lot that resonates me with Ikki taking Vice to the park for one last play before the end.

The stakes are basically nonexistent. Nobody is in danger, nothing needs saving, this is just Ikki and Vice having one last, glorious day together. It's probably not a scene that works that well for everybody, but it's something that I absolutely relate to and I will always appreciate it as the show's final action sequence, even after Vice is inevitably revived for a movie (assuming that hasn't already happened).

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I'm sure your cat was loved. It's hard to lose someone that means a lot to you, but at least you got to have that kind of connection for a while.

Similarly, I think this ending gets a lot mileage out of how deep and rich the bond is between Ikki and Vice. If Vice has to go, then Ikki wants to make sure that Vice has one last good memory before the end. It's an ending that only wants to leave you with a smile, even if there's sadness in the mix. Vice was a way for Ikki to hide from terrible memories, and the end result was giving Ikki back every memory but those with Vice. It's... I just really like that this show wants to end with Vice putting Ikki before himself, because that's exactly what Ikki would do.

Honestly, the whole idea of letting go of Vice seems like a fairly good message, that unfortunately doesn’t fit in with the show’s post episode 28 message of living with your demons, instead going back to the original message of “overcoming your demons to become better”. But I’m guessing the only reason Ikki isn’t suffering for it like Daiji (because let’s face it, no-one else actually suffered for losing their demons in his series) was is… the fact Vice suicided himself though fine print?

And I got some laughs out the fact that not only is there a Raise Buckle just lying around the Happy Spa, but that Ace knows to show up and take it (has he made similar puzzling visits to Kuji-Go Do, Hiden Intelligence and Fantastic Bookstore Kamiyama?), mostly because the Revice Driver buckle was a pre-order bonus, making this some very blatant “buy the new toy” scene.

And I know some people in Malaysia got a kick out of Daiji and Hiromi’s new club being called Blue Bird, because that’s the name of a local transport company.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6BD609179.jpeg

And now, the final skit. Like last time, I’m pulling from a Yu-Gi-Oh episode, in particular VRAINS’ finale.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...-22_235251.jpg

Vice: Alright Ikki. This is the last time we do this, before I inevitably fade away. But before we start, tell me. Was I a good partner?

Ikki: If I’m honest, no. Not even when it came to using this Vistamp.

Fifty Gale!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=fPuZQCB_Rps

Tornado Up! Trinity! Us Siblings! This Youthful Storm is Infinite! Kamen Rider Igarashi!

Ikki: Evolved from Thunder Gale through Mom’s demon, Fifty Gale combines myself, Daiji and Sakura into a single warrior with all of our powers. But right now, it’s just me. (He pulls on his Vistamp twice)

Volcano Festival!

Vice: Yeah, let’s end this. (He takes out the Rolling Vistamp, pushing on the side of it, before clenching the trigger)

Rolling Rider Punch!

The two attacks end up meeting each other in midair.

Vice: It’s no use, Ikki. Our arsenals are identical. It’s impossible for you to gain the advantage.

(Enter Geats, transformed into MagnumBoost)

Geats: Maybe not Revi, but mine might make a difference. (He brings out his sidearm)

Magnum Shooter 40X!

Geats then removes his Magnum Buckle and spins his Belt around, transforming into Boost.

Revolve On!

He then inserts the other Buckle into his weapon, which transforms into a rifle. He then revs on the Boost Buckle twice.

Boost Time!

Geats fires his weapons, creating a flurry of energy projectiles which merge into one, before revving the Boost Buckle and leaping into the air, to make the bullet his foot for a Rider Kick.

Magnum Tactical Blast!/Boost Grand Strike!

Vice takes the hit and is knocked out of his Rider form, flying backwards several feet. Ikki undoes his transformation and runs towards him.

Ikki: Vice. Are you okay?

Vice: No, I’m not. After that hit, I’m like Vail. I’ll be going back inside your body and not coming back out until your issues resurface.

Ikki: You never really wanted to end humanity, did you? This was all so you could make me get rid of you and recover my memories.

Vice: You got me. Admittedly, you could’ve fought anyone to get back your family. I only stepped up to the plate because no-one else was left. But seriously, I really wasn’t a good partner?

Ikki: No, for three simple reasons. One, you never shut your mouth, making it hard to come up with plans without the enemy countering them. Two, you would often stop fighting to talk to thin air. And three, your presence more often than not was a liability for my own power. For those reasons, you were never a good partner. But you were a great friend. And it’s too bad I’m going to lose you.

Vice: Yeah, it’s a real shame. But remember. As long as you need me, and Toei wills it to happen, I’ll always be coming back to help.

And with that, his body crackles and dissolves into black smoke, which is sucked into Ikki’s body.

Ikki: VICE! (He starts crying for a second, before reasserting himself) What was I just upset about?

George appears.

George: So, you forgot about the battle that just happened. But do you remember the names Daiji, Sakura, Genta and Yukimi?

Ikki: Duh. They’re my family. I’d never forget them, no matter what.

George: So it’s true. With Vice’s contract fully fulfilled, he erased Ikki’s memories of himself to restore those of the Igarashi family.

Geats: No need to thank me. I was just providing the highlight. (He turns and begins to leave)

Ikki: Wait a minute! Where are you going?

Geats: I have my own important family to search for. And something tells me it won’t be as easy to find as yours is. (He then vanishes)

Spider Phone: Mission Start!

Desire Driver: Ready, Fight

as much vitrioll as I gave Revice's second half I will give it credit for IMO other than Blade having the best ending in the franchise strictly because it FOR ONCE Didn't halfass or rush something and let something stick also liked how the finale was generally speaking much more focused on wrapping up the character arcs (Admittedly like you said it's more close one chapter of the characters lives beginning another)now if only I Could ignore everything that happened to GET To this point

I'd sort of be okay with it if it were just a thing Daiji said, because it's Daiji's nature to misunderstand how emotional growth works and try to one-up his brother: "If Ikki loses his demon, I'm sure to lose mine soon in an even cooler way and be an even better person for it!" But when Genta says it? NOPE. Genta's the absolute last person on the show who should be talking about the inevitability of losing an aspect of yourself!

And thanks for the fun skit!

Yeah, I appreciated how much every character got a little grace note, considering how much the last three episodes were just about Ikki, Vice, and George. Yukimi starts an uplifting livestream! Tamaki and Hana end up not going to jail! Sakura wants to be a doctor! It's all very sweet and optimistic.

I would say at least Ikki regaining his memories didn't come out of nowhere, as it already had a setup even if it was a few episodes ago, with the reason of Ikki considering a Vice a family that their contract was ongoing. But like before, Ikki's smart and resourceful, and it's consistent here, thus Lovekov revealing herself would had Ikki realizing that Vice's trying to sacrifice herself to get his memories back, though it seems that, like other "cruel" to be kind (well in this case, only the emotional damage to Ikki before), it doesn't need to be done, if it's about Ikki fighting as Revice only, not killing Vice. Though Ikki agreed to choose everyone else over Vice here, albeit obviously saddened by Vice's departure, but the final fight is canceled and turned into them playfully fighting instead, which shows how far they've come that now they can't ever be hostile to each other anymore, and there's some goodness in the varied old powers being used, which makes sense because they aren't looking to quickly kill each other.

The next part of the episodes are simply the cast's activities after all the series, and other than Ikki losing Vice (which is mitigated by him forgetting Vice), this bittersweet ending leans heavily on happy. Ikki returns into playing soccer and being encouraged by his idol Miura to go pro, and he's apparently better than before. Probably due to his fighting as Kamen Rider, but Ikki returning there seems to show that Ikki wants to pursue his dreams instead of which probably made him resentful. Daiji now can shine as the founder of Blue Bird, and getting what he wanted to steer Fenix to the right path. Sakura's now being a normal schoolgirl studying for medical school, dunno what made her interested in that, though it's not exactly nowhere. And Yukimi followed Genta's footsteps, which tbf, she has never ridiculed Genta for his streaming before. So Tamaki and Aguilera canceled their plan to turn themselves in? Though yeah working on Blue Bird is more useful than being imprisoned. Which Orteca still is due to him being left normal human, of which his actions led into only George that wanted to visit him, and also, he got quite appropriate punishment of 666 years, far beyond average human's lifespan, and it's something realistic for crimes that are really severe.

For the series itself, as I and many others have said, Revice started out smooth, if rather quick, but fell apart midway. It was a series that is refreshing to give the main characters full-fledged family (and eventually, being Rider families except Yukimi), and started out in an MOTW format that involved troubled people being used by Deadmans to manifest their inner demons as the monsters to fight, and it transitioned smoothly into the main plot of how being exposed into Riders and demons potentially ruin the Igarashi's harmony, inside or out, but would fulfill the goals of the villains and potentially George. Later the main villain faction breaks apart in quite punching twist. After that though, there's some rough path like the handling of the former generals, sans Orteca (which was the highlight), but it didn't impact the series as a whole, and seemingly getting back to track at ep. 25 for Vail plot twist, making use of Hiromi as a convincing buildup.

But after that, there are too much ideas that the series end up often leaving in half-assed way, like the Ushijimas being a fake family, George focusing on new daddy issues with Masumi, the establishment of Weekend, the three siblings going on different path, other demon conflicts of the Igarashis, building up Giff as an active participant, Giff's underlings fulfilling his goal, even the background of the former generals, and of course Ikki's amnesia. The story quite shuffles focus into what's needed, and some got less focus between these jugglings like the Ushijimas, or even Ikki and Vice with their amnesia used as only the series closure. There's also inconsistency like how Kagerou was killed despite the implication of the previous buildup. The highs of the series at this point was reached only by the side medias like Vail Legacy, and in the series proper, it was ep. 42 due to being similar to said miniseries, with it making use of Hiromi's return and giving a good theme about forgiving yourself with a fight that is related to solve the problem. It'd be better if Revice isn't distracting itself as much from its family focus, like the screentime of Giff's underlings, which is the main theme of Revice and what made it different.

It's not really explained, but I can sort of see how the show got there. I assume that Tamaki and Hana were looking for ways to atone, and it's reasonable that Blue Bird would allow them to help in the rebuilding process as a way of making up for their crimes. (I'd say "the courts" or "the government" would be responsible for determining a commutation of their sentence, but it's literally never been established that there is any higher authority in Japan than Fenix. Daiji and Hiromi gave them a slap on the wrist, I guess!)

SERIES WRAP-UP

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/revice/seriesa.png

I don’t really want to write the version of this post that most of you probably want to read.

I probably should write it, even though I’m not going to. It’s a version that delineates this show’s many failures: the big and the small, the subjective and the objective, the Hikaru and the rest. It’s a version that excoriates this series for the frustrating choices and the missed opportunities and the inconsistent thematic storytelling and the confusing conclusions to epic character arcs. It’s a version that you could piece together from 50+ posts about a year’s worth of toku broadcasting that made up my end of this thread, and I’d frankly rather you just did that.

Right now, right this minute, I don’t particularly care about the minutiae of this series, or the steps along the way that were failures. What I got in the end was a lovely, thrilling story of how self-care and self-analysis are as heroic as anything, and how the only way to earn forgiveness is to start by forgiving ourselves.

This was a series that mostly annoyed me in its attempts at epic superhero storytelling, but consistently floored me in its thoughtful and passionate defense of the totality of human experience. As a celebration of a franchise that’s spent 50 years arguing for the need to make the darker aspects of ourselves into something that can empower us to do good, I can’t think of a better standard-bearer than Revice. The ways that relationships became less about assigning blame than about allowing for redemption; how accepting yourself in all your complexity was inevitably the last, most crucial step towards a happier tomorrow; the hard battle of acknowledging your flaws and then seeing them as strengths. It’s a show that loves people, even if it didn’t always know how best to convey that love through a year-long weekly superhero TV show.

And it’s a shame that it was frequently ill-prepared for those tokusatsu demands, because the core dynamic of this show is one of my absolute favorites. The Igarashi family is one of the best ideas in 50 years of Kamen Rider, and that’s no hyperbole. After dozens of found families and grim loners and All Dads Are Dead, here we are with a happy, functional family. Sure, they’re tested. Sure, they squabble and leave in a huff and sometimes pull guns on each other. But this show starts with a happy family, and ends with a happy family. No one dies. No one runs away. It’s a show that remembered its greatest weapon whenever things got too weird or maudlin or Giff, and Genta said it best: the Igarashi family can do it all.

I don’t really know how to make this post make sense to the people who hated Revice. I get it, is I guess the olive branch I can extend. Any criticism you have about the plot, the pacing, even the characterization – I understand where you’re coming from. The story is, overall, not a strength. The non-Igarashi elements of the show mostly come off as placeholders; Better Military Organization And Villains TBD. It’s a series where the story is maybe indefensible. But for me, it’s also a series where the characters are unparalleled.

The characters on this show transcended their trappings to make a terrific series, and it’s all because the conflicts were never about monsters and organizations and henchmen and whatever. It’s not a show where the machinations of adversaries were the driving force, and I get why that’s a let down for some folks. I would certainly prefer it if a show was both intelligently plotted and thematically rich! (See: Geats.) But the way every great story from this show was internally generated, either figuratively (Ikki vs Daiji, Kagerou vs everyone, Vail vs everyone) or literally (Vail vs Genta, Daiji vs Kagerou) was what kept me invested in this series. The conflicts were never about defeating a foe, they were always – ALWAYS – about trying to find a way to forgive ourselves for the things we hate about ourselves, and learn to see those things as victories instead of failures. Giff and Fenix are forgettable bullshit; Genta welcoming Vail back into the family after all of its rage and violence is something I will always remember.

I wish that part connected with people more, or mattered more in the fandom’s appraisal of this series. It’s nothing that’s going to keep me up at night; I had my experience, you had yours, and we can’t take those away from each other. But there’s a warmth and joy to this series that just seems to have bounced off of folks, in favor of (generally legitimate!) complaints over pacing or lame villains or who got the Demons Driver or whatever. I don’t know. I can’t speak to why this show didn’t work for folks, not really. You’re all more than capable of doing that, of writing this show’s takedown that I couldn’t. I’d like to read it, even if – especially if – I don’t see it myself.

All I can see right now is a flawed show that never really knew how to tell a superhero story, but still managed to tell a phenomenal Kamen Rider story. It’s a show with heart, if maybe not enough brains. It was Kamen Rider Revice, and I’m very glad I got to experience it.

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/revice/seriesb.png

End of the day, I think Revice is fine. There are aspects of it that I like, some that I don't, nothing that I really actively hate. My opinion is probably a little more generous because of Sakura, who I still feel is the most well-realized take on a female Kamen Rider we've had since Zero-One made them a consistent part of each show. If she'd been handled as badly as Yua or, more relevantly, Daiji then I'd probably be a lot more down on the series overall. A strong heroine buys a lot of good will from me, especially in a series like Kamen Rider that tends to undervalue most of the women who strap on a transformation belt.

Yeah, I mean: Revice is the series that gave us Girls Remix. A+ show, every decision was justified.

But, yeah, Sakura's pretty great. She got multiple story arcs, and they were never about what she thought of some boy, or what some boy thought of her. Also, Cherry-Ish is the best Revice song, and Invincible Jeanne is the best suit.

ok Revice is a weird beast of a show to talk about a frequent problem I noticed with Rider shows is due to being merchandise based they often have to pull random crap to ensure they can keep the line going throughout the year the first half of Revice was shaping up IMO to be up there with Blade and Gaim for me the problem is it REALLY Feels like the writers came up with a story that was meant to be 25-35 episodes long but because it's tied to a toyline got stretched unnaturally to 50 episodes which is a damn shame because the first half was so good and I liked how they actually explored the main characters family (Ryotaro big sister from Den-O was just a walking plot device, and Kouta's big sister in Gaim was just kinda there) and I like the main theme that our flaws make us who we are but again the writer didn't know how to stretch these to 50 episodes so we got some of the worst episodes in the franchise

In my mind, and from what I’ve discerned, some of the big problems with Revice were:

The three fan favourites (Hiromi, Kagerou and Genta) were gone for long stretches of the series.

A lot of focus was given to characters who were controversial (Sakura, Akaishi) or downright maligned (Hikaru, Giff). In general, I think the show suffers from having too many characters to adequately focus on in a TV show. Though that seems to be a result of the author primarily being a writer of novels, which can easily devote a paragraph in a chapter to any character, no matter how minor.

The show clearly didn’t know how to adequately use its 50 episode plot. We get two different Rider form debuts (Tamaki as Over Demons and Invincible Jeanne) in a single episode, which would be a big no-no in any other show. And given that both are depowered within the next two parter, it makes you wonder why they even bothered leaving it so late.

The third arc with Akaishi and Giff. The main issue is see come up is that it dragged out for several episodes of “Heroes come up with a plan, Akaishi has magically anticipated the plan, Akaishi thwarts the plan, Heroes start to come up with another plan”. Given that a lot of stuff near the end of the show was noted to be rushed, I feel they could definitely have had something to work with if they cut this arc down.

Retcons. This show suffered from a lot of obvious examples which make it clear the writers had no real faith in their earlier ideas, and gave up on trying to make them work.

Granted, there were some things people liked about this show, but rather than list them out, I’ll just say that I’ve seen pretty much all of them done better elsewhere. Overall, Revice is pretty much my low point for Reiwa Rider and my second lowest point for Rider overall (only Ryuki beats it out, but you probably knew that)

If I had to say something nice about Revice, then I'd say that I think most of the actors tried their best with the material they were given. The strong emotional performances of Hyuuga Wataru and Hamao Noritaka are the only thing that got me through their late arcs. Vice is an entertaining comedic character, brought to life by the improvising skill of Kimura Subaru and the physical energy of Eitoku. The actors of the Deadmans trio do a great job showing a group of pitiful people who followed the wrong path. The actors of Yukimi and Genta do a great job showing a pair of loving charismatic parents, that somehow ended up with such weirdo kids.

But no matter the acting talent, I can't ignore the many severe flaws with the narrative and character arcs. I mentioned before that something unbelievable about this show is that the sensible choices are easy to see, cliche even, but Kinoshita tries to subvert every twist and turn. Like he wanted Revice to be the next Ryusoulger or something and boy do I love Ryusoulger, but he doesn't consider, "does this actually make sense?" I think this show would've been so much better, if it wasn't trying so hard to be different for the sake of it. The characters can lament, "oh no, Ikki's losing his memories!", all they want, but I can't feel anything. The only part I think came out good was the stuff with Yukimi, Genta and Vail and while I understand why you can't have a bunch of middle-aged people as the main focus of a Rider show, I sure would've preferred it in this case.

Overall, Revice is firmly at the bottom of my Reiwa Rider Ranking, but if I compare it to Showa and Heisei as well, I think it's the worst Rider show in general. Layton explained it pretty aptly, that Revice hurts so much due to the way it creates faith in one episode and crushes it in the next, a pattern that repeats over and over again. An intriguing premise tragically diminished by a series of counter-intuitive executions.

I appreciate the quick response to my call for alternate viewpoints on Revice! Y'all did not disappoint!

I mean, I sort of agree with this, and sort of don't. I think there aspects of the storytelling that didn't have a series worth of juice in them -- basically, Fenix and Giff/Akaishi/Giffamilia just don't have enough moves to them to carry long stretches of the series. But! I feel like the character relationships and arcs are nicely arranged to cover a lot of ground, and to make it always feel like something in the cast is changing/evolving/challenged. I frequently didn't care about what was happening in the world of Revice, but I almost always cared about what was happening to the characters of Revice.

I don't know how much of a problem I think this is? I mean, it's a valid criticism: there's a bunch of stuff in the first couple episodes that either get immediately jettisoned (Happy Spa's going to be forced to shut down!) or eventually disregarded because no one could figure out how to square it with later explanations (Vice wants to eat people, including Yukimi). It would certainly have been a smoother ride if the production team had been smarter about salvaging things that didn't work. But, like, I'm okay with a show that doesn't handcuff itself to things that it's outgrown? It's a bummer, especially when I eventually rewatch Revice, but I think it lets more interesting stories develop in the long run of the series.

Ha ha, I feel like they were the focus of the show, at least as much as anyone else? This was more of an ensemble than even Saber was, where any two characters could claim to be the stars of an individual episode. I love how much Genta and Yukimi contributed to the overall narrative, and (even though I didn't care for them) the grown-ups of Weekend also got big, meaty storylines.

I've not seen Revice - I was catching up with Saber and desperately busy with life while it was airing - but I've been in this fandom long enough to know that's it's the new Ghost. Or the new Wizard. Or Zi-O. Or Hibiki Part 2. A show with flaws, yes, but one that people probably overegg because it's recent and the weekly watch is still fresh in the mind. Give it time, and it'll become just another Rider series, one that doesn't have to be the best thing ever week after week, and is allowed to have the good coexist with the bad as one of many past Rider shows that you can choose to revisit.

Also George Karizaki's Rider System is on my Spotify On Repeat right now because it's great, what can I say.

Yeah, I definitely learned something about how quickly I want to revisit a series, at least as far as experiencing it on the boards for the first time. Happy to hold off on talking about Geats until 2030 or so!

Still, it's a little surprising to me how almost universal the dislike for Revice seems to be? I came into this fandom through Ghost; specifically because watching Ghost was driving me insane. But for as much anger as Ghost engendered, there was honestly a lot of positivity and fun? I came away from that experience with an appreciation for both the show itself, and the way other fans enjoyed the show. I don't feel like that's as much the case for Revice? Or maybe the extra two years of distance Ghost had when I started posting about in 2019 really was the difference maker...

It's unusual for me too, because what I remember most is the honeymoon period of early Revice, when people were convinced it was going to be so much better than how*awful* Saber was. To find everyone hates it so much has honestly been a bit of a surprise, especially since I did see vague positive things all the way through, albeit with the vague negative things too.

KAMEN RIDER REVICE HYPER-BATTLE VIDEO: SAY HELLO TO THE SECONDARY RIDER!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/revice/hbv2a.png

I love how nerdy this thing got.

Revice was a show that was ostensibly about the 50-year history of Kamen Rider, but got way less visibly celebratory as the series went on. The early form changes are all History Of Kamen Rider (well, Heisei Rider, mostly), but once we get to Barid Rex, we’re pretty much just doing suits that accentuate and elaborate on Revice’s themes and aesthetic. There’s for sure still elements at play that pay homage to the whole franchise – Androzani’s been doing a heroic job detailing them all – but they’re not really the focal point of the story. Revice grew out of that phase, for better or worse.

So it’s nice to have one last little goof-off HBV special for the anniversary season, where the Igarashi Extended Family spends ten minutes bickering over which of them, if any, is the season’s Secondary.

That is possibly the most specifically nerdy Kamen Rider discussion for a special to ever take part in, and it’s one that everybody in the fandom has fallen prey to at least once. (The biggest offender is probably Blade, but I can imagine that the topic came up occasionally in Geats discussion.) We all have this vocabulary we’ve cobbled together to help organize our thoughts on Kamen Rider, and it sometimes makes us miss the forest for the trees. Trying to decide if Daiji or Kagerou or Hiromi or Vice is the Secondary is maybe a square peg in a round hole. It’s not how these shows are probably made anymore, and the distinction doesn’t affect the story being told. It’s nerd trivia, and it’s not really talking about art.

But, shit, I love indulging in trivia on occasion, so I was super into the baffling logic and surprising evasions of this episode’s dip in the Nerd Waters. The eventual reveal of Ikki being the Secondary to Genta’s Primary is deliciously absurd while still being logical, and god bless Ikki for trying not to seem absolutely crushed by the consensus of the group. I’d maybe’ve clarified that Evil is an antagonist Rider, and Live is his Secondary, but everything else was spot on and probably a real debate that happened on Japanese Twitter.

Beyond that, this thing had the usual gigantic pile of bizarre details I come to HBVs for: The alternate Ikki, Daiji, Sakura, Hiromi, and Vice are, respectively, a Fenix officer, a three-year old, an anaconda, a monk, and a rice cooker; the main villain is werewolf who has already turned 80% of his world into puppies; and the actual editor of TV-Kun shows up to tell Ikki that Revice can’t be the Secondary because they’ve got magazines to sell.

I don’t know that this one ended up saying anything about Secondary Riders, nor was it maybe aiming to. I think they just wanted to have a stupid, circular argument about arbitrary designations, and that’s it. REVICE IS FOR THE FANS!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/revice/hbv2b.png

Note: I was not planning on doing the second HBV tonight, but then I found out that my copies – and, I guess, all copies – of the Revice Anime and first TTFC stage show weren’t subbed. Sorry! Maybe someday someone’ll get around to subbing them, and I can come back and talk about them!

I don't think that's an issue in a longer series but not a merchandise based show that only goes on for a year

I think the reason that Revice is potentially more disliked is because it was liked a lot early on. People were excited and got invested. Then it burned a lot of people. Getting something soured is far worse for most than never getting into it.

Probably the reason people often are surprisingly mad at Wizard for looking super cool and then being a show focused on MotW Plots. Just to a far lesser extent.

Same like Ghost even when I first watched it was bad like I thought the villains sucked but it's just roll your eyes (I ACTUALLY THINK THIS SHOW IS AT POINTS WORSE THAN GHOST)

Okay, about the second HBV.

This is written by the same guy who did Birth of Chimera, and as I said in my review of that, he definitely feels more in his element with this kind of plotting. Especially the fact that parodies Nigou’s Christmas episode, with Tamaki’s actor playing the role of Col. Zol. Which was basically the joke I went with this time.

(Note: This takes place in the alternate universe with no secondaries)

Ikki: It’s Ikki’s… Stamp Navi! Alright everyone, thanks for cheering me on in my battles with the Deadmans. Make sure to use antibacterial wipes when cleaning up dust for better results*. Today’s Vistamp is this one.

Gold Spino!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=uOTIMwb-bZo&feature=share

Gold Up! Oh! Me! Say! Showtime! Kamen Rider! Yeah, gonna do it now! Gonna do it now! A Golden Shine, A Connected Will! Go on! Gold Spino!

George: This Vistamp harnesses the power of the Nigou Spirit to counter the unique chemistry of Col. Julio’s Ookami Deadman form. Just like this guy.

Lockseed: Nigou!

Ichimonji: Henshin!

George: Kamen Rider Nigou, Hayato Ichimonji. Shocker’s second attempt to create a Hopper Man, he was saved by Rider Ichigou and subsequently became his successor. After defeating Shocker’s Col. Zol, he left for Europe, returning to aid his fellow Riders during future times of crisis.

Ikki: But unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make use of Ichimonji-san’s power, as the sole Rider battling the Deadmans.

George: It’s okay. After I gave it to your alternate self, he was able to defeat Col. Julio with ease. And I was inspired. I’ve created a Rider System for my own use, combining the powers of all 10 of your forms.

Suddenly, the screen behind them buzzes, before the image of Olteca dressed in a white tuxedo with a Dracula cape, sat on a red throne appears.

Ikki: Dr. Olteca!

Olteca: Hear this, Kamen Rider. I congratulate you on the demise of Col. Julio. However, myself and Ambassador Aguilera will be coming at you with more ferocity than before. We’ll be calling upon our strongest cultists from Europe** to come and challenge you. And soon, our glorious Hellish Deadmans Army will reign supreme. (Video ends)

Ikki: In that case, I’d better head to Europe and stop their operations there. (He puts his hands on George’s shoulder) Can I trust you to protect Japan and my family in my absence?***

George: You can count on me, Rider Revi. I’ll be protecting Japan starting from the next instalment (turns towards the screen) Until next time, we’ll see you then****.

And there’s a few specifically Showa gags in this skit.

* This line from Ikki parodies how episode of Skyrider would end with the hero thanking the viewer for apwatching and then giving a lesson vaguely related to the next episode.

** In the older shows, the villains would often explain that the stronger members they called on came from branches in foreign countries.

*** A reference to how when a new Rider appeared, the old ones would go overseas to fight the villain’s foreign branches, leaving the new kid in charge of protecting Tokyo.

**** The closing line is taken from the English dub of Ultraman Z, which was my way of indicating this is an alternate universe.

And as for there being Secondary discourse concerning Revice. Put simply,during a group watch of this, I commented “Meanwhile, the real secondary humbly watches as her compatriots engage in this madness”.

No wrong answers to this puzzle! Happy to accept Sakura as the secondary to Lovekov's primary!

And thanks for the fun skit!

My view on Revice’s secondary is that narratively it’s Sakura, merch-wise it’s Daiji.

Here's a take
Ikki is the primary
Sakura is the secondary
But!
Hiiromi isnt thw 4thiary, but Daiji's secondary

Note: I've not watched revice.

Perhaps this message, which I also hoped to get through people, would be dismissed because Hiromi is seen as the heroic representative (which may be true, but..), and likely the message of self-care would be overlooked in exclusively just looking his sacrifice first, ask questions later, probably considering those who warned him about self-care like Daiji or (post middle) George as worse people just trying to curb his heroism. Seems that in this franchise, people do appreciate straight heroes more if they're thrown into torture porn and endless suffering (though ofc if they're not "whiny" too despite being a loser), and maybe the same applies to people like Kagami.... o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶w̶a̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶s̶.̶

Inner demons in this series is about the personification of any humans' flaws or weaknesses. Most if not all people have an inner side that they repress nearly constantly. This includes the Igarashi siblings. For the plot, seems that as the Igarashis inherited Giff DNA, they as a result possess inner demons that embodies their respective innder side. Other humans still have their inner sides but they don't have inner demons, unless when the Deadmans stamped them. Though for the most part this is handled well, I do feel that sometimes it feels reasonable too that they dislike their demons around and want to get rid of them, despite wanting to show getting rid of their demons as refusal to face one's self, as how both Kagerou and Vail are uncaring psychos who tried to kill their hosts’ family, or performing other moments like ruining their family moment, and don’t show a shred of remorse for this, they're nothing but nuisance at best or actual dangerous threat to be around, albeit they managed to pull it off with Genta and Vail.

I've seen you hoping for a change of pace of families not being, I've thought that it'd be not long that you'd get it in Revice (of which turns out you watched Geats first, which goes back to found families, grim loners, and All Dads Are Dead) though dunno if mentioning that would be spoilers - I personally don't think so to talk about basic premise of the show. The criticism to this show would be, this, that the Igarashi family should be more of a constant focus of the show, rather than the show trying to do too much later. Ikki forgetting his family should be done not only as a conclusion, but well, just his progressive arc as, he's the MC. Though I feel that it might work better (but even more tragic) if the contract deal is about Ikki being forgotten by everyone else. Though just feels that the Igarashi family may be made too special to others and get too much shilling in Genta saying they can do it all.

I'd think I hoped that for these other stuff, Revice can display varying kind of families well, other than the Igarashis, like the dysfunctional one in Karizakis, or the fake one in the Ushijimas. The Karizaki one is controversial due to it involving George's retcon and the attempt of making Masumi look good falling flat in the end. The Ushijimas just fall out of focus with it solely being used as raising Hikaru to be a Rider that nobody asked for. Yeah the Karizaki one is the message I wouldn't want to see regarding family-centric shows, the message of giving free pass to anyone that is a part family, but especially the Oketani 2-parter, of which regarding Geats, I'm so far relieved of what they're going through regarding this, but I'm really worried about the upcoming episode.

People do often complain about Giff and Weekend, but Fenix isn't really subjected to this, though dunno if it's about the organization or just specifically beloved characters like Hiromi and George. This watch thread seems to be one of the few which doesn't really give much thoughts of George, but specifically about him at the beginning who got as much attention and appreciation as people like Kuroto and Woz (who if someone don't like perhaps they'd be condemned), like he perhaps would be so relatable with him being a Kamen Rider fanboy (though I do feel that his terrible traits are overlooked only because he's a fan of a franchise about heroes).