His name is Mr Cameron Eleon, duh.

Look I haven't seen Revice beyond the Beyond Generations movie, I've got to hit my bad joke quota somehow.

For once, Genta's the one to be sort of useful here, being the one to solve over this overprotectiveness by pointing out that it takes more courage to trust than worry, leading for Ikki to act fully friendly to Vice for the first time. With the 'trust' being shown by Vice punching a Deadman behind Ikki where Ikki didn't notice. I'm still not fully onboard with trusting morally dubious beings to be released which Ikki does to Vice, though it's true that there are also positive moments Vice did to him which Ikki overlook like trying to protect him from Kagerou, but I'm fully onboard on the more innocent side, on how you should trust others to handle problems by themselves instead of holding them back. Better try and mitigate problems (if not successful) than not trying at all due to over-worry of being injured. And not trusting others to handle problems is quite an innocent version of putting others down, viewing them as weak or incapable...

Indeed Ikki hasn't let go fully of his overprotective behavior to his siblings, where they're Kamen Riders now, even if Ikki's in worse position that he can't use his Revice Driver and his siblings are the ones who can fight. And I think Ikki not fully learning his lesson is the reason why Kagerou manifests back in this episode, with Daiji still being babied by Ikki that he worries too much that Daiji can't be independent out there as Rider, thus his resentment to Ikki resurfaces as Ikki goes back to his old habit, where of course as usual Daiji is subdued by only pointing out that the siblings aren't weak anymore, but not for Kagerou. Really Ikki should stop as it has proven to have unfortunate consequences, or probably if he learns that Kagerou can come back. Though it can be Kagerou taking over when he's beaten up from battle or Olteca directly releasing it with his tentacles. Ikki's new upgrade Barid Rex Genome, focuses on ice, and it has a theme revolving it like Ice Age (the era where dinosaurs were dying).

Sakura seems to be more relaxed dealing with her family after dropping her edgy act, dismissing Ikki and Daiji's concerns in more funny and lighthearted way (though I guess pointing out Ikki can't henshin is a bit of a payback, albeit Ikki too storms into the Skybase as regular human), though dunno if (she did ask for overcompensation at the end of last episode) she also hadn't fully learned her lesson like Ikki. Turns out that Yukimi has something to learn too herself, which'd be why I softened up a bit against what she did in last episode, that it's not something seen as always right (though you may do) because she usually acts as a guidance over her sons before (or because she's the parent), that she's even more overprotective than Ikki is against Sakura, despite that she'd let her sons fight as Riders, and Sakura already being trained to fight. A trivia that 2 of her ViStamps Kujaku and Turtle had their Rider bases ZX and V3 dealing with dead sisters and avenging them.

Hiromi's the other one that has his Driver taken, for his physical health, and the episode does show that he will perform heroic deeds even without power, it's regardless required as Jeanne has inherent escort mission for Lovekov, if she's not used as weapon. Now Happy Spa's the one to lend a hand on Fenix by having Hiromi take a bath there. There's now a hook of Wakabayashi being actually a traitor and is Chameleon Deadman, but I guess it's just Chameleon's ability to shapeshift into others, and guessing from how Revice had some evil twist hook before, but actually not (Daiji's envy, but it's actually Kagerou, and Sakura at preview of ep. 12, but it's actually Seiko). George would still take pot shots at Vice for his criticism to Jackal design. Finally the mid-season upgrade Barid Rex Genome comes, which is George's big project at this moment. Vice did have his payback as the skateboard, but at this point, George's own pettiness and spite will just hinder Fenix/Kamen Rider's progress that Vice will be stuck on his weaker base form, hindering Revice's overall battle power still. This shows how cold traits can instead be detrimental, and storytelling-wise, it's probably an effective one to handicap a scientist's contribution. Though he's able to get over Sakura, only focusing on the sender.

What a fool I was to miss this! Thank you for the clarification.

Like... people are morally dubious sometimes. If we can't forgive people when they've made an honest attempt to change and grow -- if we can't see beyond someone's earliest mistakes -- then we're all kind of screwed?

KAMEN RIDER: BEYOND GENERATIONS

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/revice/beyondb.png

The true legacy of Kamen Rider that will carry on for the next 50 years: most crossover movies are pretty goddamn boring.

I thought this one was pretty much a bust, save a couple clever ideas late in the game. It’s a story that the Saber cast is around for, without them ever feeling crucial to the narrative. (Like, there’s nothing thematically linking them to the story of Ryunosuke and Hideo, beyond an If You Squint thing about Ryunosuke wanting to keep a promise to his son that they’d ride the bullet train; they don’t.) Similarly, while the main arc of Kamen Rider Century is about family, it’s more about Daddy Issues, which means you could plug in nearly any Heisei Rider (and half of the Reiwa ones) and still feel like this story was in their wheelhouse. And that’s the huge problem with the story of Kamen Rider Century: it doesn’t specifically need Ikki or Touma to make it work.

Even setting aside the irrelevance of our two main Riders to this movie… the story of Ryunosuke and Hideo sort of isn’t much? It’s barely enough to fill a normal two-parter, let alone a feature-length film, until you convolute the holy shit out of it so that just repeating it sounds like it’s two or three movies instead of one. Ryunosuke wanted to do mad science experiments on unsuspected victims, he abandoned his family to do them, one of his victims was like Hey I Don’t Like Being Modified Into A Shocker Monster, Ryunosuke was like Dang I Get It, tried to return to his family after god knows how long as a Shocker fascist, gets experimented on, gets SHOT INTO SPACE FOR SOME REASON, gets sucked into a wormhole (as one does), travels into the future, then travels into the present day to stop Diablo just as (but not before! Never before!) he enslaves humanity. It’s dumb enough to join the pantheon of Stupid Crossover Plots, and maybe even be its head deity. (Why in the world would Shocker shoot him and a bunch of other failed experiments into space??? Even for Shocker, which is where normal plots are modified into Stupid Crossover Plots, this is the stupidest plot point in the film by a mile.) It’s a messy film full of stupid developments, almost all of which need to be reexplained to try and absolve their glaring plotholes.

And it’s all in service of a story of two men that I actively disliked. If Shocker are meant to be the Nazis – and they are – then Ryunosuke is a Nazi scientist who was eventually like Whoops Mea Culpa. Meanwhile, his 50-something son Hideo (a late-in-life dad who mostly doesn’t have time for his own son) reasonably resents his dad for a) abandoning his family to go do horrific experiments on innocent people, b) showing up to hijack his son’s body for some light apocalypse-prevention, and c) never trying to get in contact when he was shot off into space I guess? It’s the last one that makes a lot of this drag out; the movie really puts a lot of its weight on YOU NEVER CAME HOME DAD, which is easily explained away, instead of the more appalling and unforgivable YOU WILLINGLY EXPERIMENT ON HUMANS MULTIPLE TIMES DAD. I’m assuming the movie skips out on that one because, you know, unforgivable, but it’s hilarious to watch this movie try and rehabilitate a full-on evil scientist just because he misses his kid you guys.

(I rolled my eyes so hard that I gave myself permanent Showa Eyes And Tears at the scene where Takeshi Hongo – played by the skinny Son Of Hongo – tells the guy who murdered dozens of innocents in pursuit of genetic dominance that he’s actually a hero because he created Kamen Rider, which… that was not this guy’s doing! That was not the goal of the project! Takeshi Hongo subverted evil to do good; the evil still happened! Shocker is not retroactively benevolent just because Takeshi Hongo used the power they gave him to destroy it! That’s an incredibly dumb thing for this movie to say! Out loud! Holy shit!)

But, hey, if we’re willing to put aside how little this was either a Revice or Saber story, and if we’re willing to ignore how bad and drawn out and ludicrous the Kamen Rider Century story was… it’s still not a great movie? The best fight scene is the one in the future, where Daiji, Vice, Sakura, Touma, Rintaro, and Yuri all inhabit different clone bodies to fend off the requisite Army Of Dark Rider Suits, and even that’s a little lackluster. It’s neat to see a lineup of Valkyrie, Blade (for Blades! Hilarious!), Accel, Black RX, Knight, and Ex-Aid Muteki, but almost none of them utilized the things that are fun about those forms. Ex-Aid Muteki’s whole thing is being an invulnerable, overpowered Final Form, but Yuri’s running down a hallway, having a tough time against mooks. It’s just suits; nothing more than suits.

This one… god, it was so boring. When Kamen Riders were on the screen, I couldn’t figure out why they were there. (Diablo’s plot has no moves on it! And Diablo has no point of view!) When Ryunosuke and Hideo were on the screen, I was wishing the pointless Riders were back. Probably one of the worst crossover movies I’ve ever seen. I don’t think I can handle fifty more years of these types of films!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/revice/beyonda.png

Wow

Dreamsword was right.

Kudos Dreamsword! You called both parts all the way!

The one thing that sort of hangs over the audience's head (or at least mine at the time the show was airing) when it comes to trusting Vice is that one scene from an earlier episode, where he notices Ikki vanishing from a picture and does a sinister laugh about it. It seemed like the show was trying to signal that he was more malicious and knowledgeable than he's letting on. The kind of thing that makes taking the latter bonding moments at face value difficult in the moment--am I seeing Ikki forming a genuine bond here, or getting strung along?
I don't remember the episode/show actually presenting that as a dilemma? But it very much became one in my brain. Demons give you trust issues fr

edit: damn a whole movie post happened while I was typing. I will say one thing I did enjoy about Beyond Generations is how casually the two series link up. "Yeah, like, you gave us some flyers for your bathhouse, so we came to check it out. Why not." The rest of it was definitely pretty uninspired crossover fare though. I only got around to watching this movie a couple months ago and apparently that was my main takeaway. Great theme song, at least.

I'm glad I could deliver DreamSword a win? I hope that was fun for you guys? You're welcome?

Huh! I'm not sure that really stuck with me when it came to determining whether Vice was trustworthy or not. It's such a weird detail -- the show's had it happen a few times by this point, but never in a way that hints (to my eyes) about who's responsible or what might be the endgame. Didn't really think about it!

Listen this is all I can really offer as commentary because I can't find a way to discuss this movie because your prior post is a literal brick wall for me in terms of discussions. All I can say is, I liked the movie.

The only other discussion I can offer is what did you think of the credits song, Promise?

I'm glad you enjoyed the movie! I thought the theme song was okay!

I guess to be specific, the equivalent of what I said is also about sparing villains to not resort into killing, of which actually it frequently happens without them regretting and making that honest attempt (though I guess Vice's honest attempt to change was him warning about Kagerou in ep. 8?), but just people having blind faith that they won't do bad (to "see the best on people").

I actually hate blind faith on people being used to show how someone is a beacon of moral justice. You can be kind while being wary of people. That'd be still be nice too if it's meant to prevent someone bad from cooking up things (but not going overboard as just offing anyone who you're wary of). For my example above, I mean that not resorting to killing doesn't mean that they should be put in a position where they can't harm anyone (which does involve wariness).

I think there's a difference between mistakes or from deliberately harming others (including in retaliation). I mean would you really think someone who accidentally drops bookshelves is the same with those who deliberately vandalizes? I think mistakes are the accidental and unintentional ones, not on purpose. I mean everyone has capacity to do good and bad, but I don't like if this is used to lump everyone as just the same (which often happens in "it's not black and white" talks, but the "only grey exists" is going too far on the opposite direction); character/people should be looked as a whole of their good deeds vs their bad deeds (and then factoring in WHY they did bad things). It's context that really weighs the scale in either direction.