Sure, but Vice was a devil that didn't even understand the concept of right and wrong when he attacked Ikki's mom. He wasn't a fully-formed human with a learned moral code and a grasp on ethics that decided to harm others; he was basically an animal, and one that had never been trained to interact safely with people. Now that Vice's learned from Ikki's example, I think it's fair to give him a chance?

I think the actual substance of the mystery (who and what and why) isn't important at this point, but more the general fact that whatever it is, Vice seems to get what's going on, but is keeping it a secret--and it's something Vice at his most immoral found humorous, so it's probably not a good secret. So while Ikki is putting more trust in him, we know he's being kept in the dark about stuff...it makes for a sort of shaky foundation for a "trusting" relationship.

Well, I’m glad that in the future George gets to finally live the dream of putting a disco in the Ichigou belt.

Also I have no idea why they went with Neo-Batta for the mvoie form. Wouldn’t original Batta or Kajiki (the Saber Vistamp) have been more thematically appropriate?

Also I love that Revice are randomly fighting the Planarian Deadman in the beginning. Especially since the dude giving out those Vistamps isn’t anywhere else in the movie.

Okay, scattershot thoughts over (you can find more in the TokuCast for this movie), time for a skit, which isn’t necessarily Vistamp related

George: Hey, hey, hey! Yo, everyone. It’s George Karizaki here. I’m recording this amidst the madness of the world in 2071. A world ruled by the demon Diablo. However, I’ve created this to stop him.

Cyclotron Driver!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-JVjQkIRq3A

George: This Driver was created as a modern version of Kamen Rider Ichigou’s, but with one key difference.

Ready!

George: This belt can send its user back through time to a point where their DNA exists in some form, be it a younger self or an ancestor. And in the unlikely event of time travellers, their descendants.

Done!

George: They can then use it to take over that body and become a warrior who can fight Diablo on even ground.

Century!

George: Kamen Rider Century. It’s taken me 50 years, but it turns out I’d been wasting my time trying to make a stronger Vistamp and send it back in time for Revice, Live, or Jeanne to fight with. I had to go back to basics, and create a warrior with the same skills as Ichigou.

Rider Punch!

Rider Kick!

George: And then, there’s the ultimate power that can defeat Diablo.

Cyclotron Finish!

George: If anything happens to me before I can find a suitable user, whoever finds this is to make use of this invention to prevent all of this from happening. (The sound of something hurtling through the air in the distance is heard) What? (He goes to a telescope, sighting a Shocker emblem on the object). Godda- (video cuts out)

Yeah, not a fan of this one either; the movie, that is; the episode I literally have nothing to say beyond, probably a bit early for the "I trust you Vice!" moment, but yeah. Rest was forgettable.

The movie, though?

Had a lot of the same problems as you. Century really rubbed me the wrong way, given the "deadbeat dad ran out on us and broke his promises" angle the movie is going for; he really learns jack shit.

He still makes promises he seemingly knows he can't keep and manipulates his son into reconciling before disappearing again. It really rubs me the wrong way how this all resolves and puts into question if he learned anything at all.

That said, I don't have a problem with the former Shocker scientist becoming a Rider.

Wouldn't be the first time since Riderman has pretty much the same backstory, and the only reason he started fighting the evil organization he was from, Destron, was because he wanted to take revenge on the guy who had betrayed him.

So, in general, no problem with the plot in general they just screwed it up.

So, yeah, sadly, by far my least favorite Generations movie.

Oh! Also, Diabolo is an idiot. Just, in general, but specifically given how often he lets people run away when they are like, 20 meters away from him when they are off screen. That movie really suffers from anything that isn't on screen is not existent. Probably some of the worst offender in that regard.

Yeah, honestly the movies are unappealing for me. Ofc it's just a trope and it by itself isn't bad, but crossovers are often just done as a fanservice (and for Toei, more toys) to get some franchises mixing up. I felt the need to watch it to not missing out on some spoilers happening to characters when reading up info (only done it when you did too so that I can leave comments), and ofc you have the need to cover everything about the current series you're watching.

Daddy issues... setting this in a movie? You just gotta keep watching Revice instead. Actually perhaps Ryunosuke regretting what he did and trying to atone is a display of how Kamen Riders' actions can be inspiring to move bad guys. Actually I'd say that at least Ryunosuke's attempt to atone is genuine, but he does feel like treated as a normal person trying to reunite with family, instead of someone who did serious crimes (though people like Ikki and co being patient and tolerant would be expected). And it's not sympathetic enough to have someone turn bad only to satisfy their dreams, which is completely their own choices, as if they did that solely because they can (doing it under harsh circumstances also won't mean they aren't bad, but still). He also obviously isn't the type who is only merely associated with a bad faction (which actually can have them being actual good guys, not only sympathetic bad guy), but actually performed their job for long time.

Other than the complaint, I'd say that Ryunosuke needing to hijack someone to fight as a Kamen Rider feels like other toku; Ultraman, with human hosts, and the consequences of them going berserk feels like when an Ultraman human host dislikes Ultramen and disrupt their fight (not exactly the same as Century here, but it does have consequenes too). Regarding YOU NEVER CAME HOME DAD, this being a Saber movie, ofc it'd take promises seriously, instead of explaining it away, but unlike Saber... Ryunosuke didn't actually fulfill his promise, thus his redemption against Hideo isn't earned or even feels deceiving, unlike how in all Saber extras, Touma (and Kento as for end) would make sure anyone fulfills their promise, and they did. I actually'd hope the scene of them saving the Riders via a bullet trait would be how they fulfilled their promise while also getting into the Rider scene, but the story still didn't refer to that as fulfilling the promise.

Agreed on this. This is perhaps done (and perhaps Hongo's patient and forgiving nature) to make Ryunosuke feel better because he technically has atoned for what he did by creating those who fight off shocker. But judging how good or bad someone/actions is by the outcomes of their actions is just promoting those shitty stuff, letting it go unpunished. And actually many people (not talking about here) also has similar view, to glorify villains when their actions have benefit. Sometimes good things can come out of a bad situation or a bad thing. However, people should not misconstrue that just because something good was born out of something bad/evil, does not make that something good, just because the end result was good does not mean that the bad guys did something good.

This one too, with the Riders provided to the cast consisting of random power level of it, I wondered how capable are those Rider forms, which like you said, it's just a disservice to have Hyper Muteki getting hard time against fodders. I hope it's about the clone being nowhere near as good as the original, because it's just humiliation otherwise. And as I've completed Revice but watched this movie now, so actually the Revice intro part of George being shown with Riders being used as a lab experiment, which makes him suspicious at this stage (though in this movie he seems just helpful), it was done on this movie only, of his clone Riders. Hiromi in this movie feels more hostile and standoffish, even though I know he's professional. By contrast, Rintaro is established as a professional but still stands up for George dismissing Hiromi for his failure, of which only considering results over efforts do often happen in "professional" setting....

For me, Vice does so much fourth wall-breaking stuff that I never know if I'm supposed to take those reactions as I Have A Secret or just What Wacky Thing Is Going To Happen Next On "Kamen Rider Revice"? Vice is genre-savvy enough that I never quite take it as him being ahead of the game on the series arc.

Ha ha, yeah, they have about zero problems taking out a monster that they needed Live to finish off just a couple weeks prior, huh? And thanks for the fun skit!

Well, I didn't know the Riderman similarities, but I still found the emotional core of the film to be not exactly to my liking. It's two dudes I didn't connect with, having an argument about a thing I didn't enjoy.

But, really, that wouldn't even have been as much of a problem if it felt like there was a reason this story needed the casts of both Saber and Revice to tell it.

This one wasn't for me!

This one, thankfully, didn't seem to have a lot that impacted either show? We get yet another tease of Rintaro confessing his feelings to Mei (who, as always, is miles ahead of him) and that's all I could see as far as series-relevant details? It's fairly contained, as far as storytelling is concerned.

Oh, no, I agree with you there.

Those two have a likeability problem, the dad more than the son, but yeah.

And it really doesn't feel like a story that needs either Rider.

Like, Generation Forever is also about a side character, but it thematically and narratively is a story that only really works because it's a ZI-O story, and they find good ways to incorporate Build thematically as well.

Here, removing the fact that Diabolo supposedly is Giff's family, a concept ripe for exploration in a show about family, is super easy. The only thing that raises questions is the stamp association but that is easily changed.

He's generic in the worst way.

It's appropriate that the ending theme is called Promise, as I am about to fulfill the promise I made in the Saber thread to talk about this movie!

Agreed. However, I'm not going to complain about seeing those lovable characters again. Sure, most of it is just meaningless fanservice (especially for Rintarou fans ;)), but I thought it was nice to see how their lives are going and that Sophia and Reika seem to be cool with each other now as they sat at the same table in Shiawase-Yu without rancor.

But if there was a common connection between Revice and Saber, it would be Family, right? Revice made a big deal about that being its central theme, but before that, it was the center of Rintarou's arc and motivation for his loyalty to SOL, his familial attachment to his friends and having to learn to dissociate them from the organisation. Honestly, I'd even say that Saber is more focused on Family than Revice.

There is a weird plot hole with this crossover though, that Saber's epilogue takes place a year after the final battle against Storious, but for Revice, it's still 2021.... Touma should be in Wonder World! The Seiken Swords should be dormant! The timeline is messed up even before involving the time travel plot!

And how does Ikki even Henshin without Vice?!

Despite the many logical errors that litter this movie, I did enjoy it for the heartwarming story about the relationship between father and son spanning 100 years. How about that awesome Mount Fuji climax! Xross Saber's back! Since Zero One got screwed out a Movie War, Revice even get a giant-sized Zero One-themed form to give the illusion that he's there!

Future George and his Clone Riders also play an important part in the fanfic I wrote last year, which is kind of like an AU prequel set in 2065-2066.

Yeah, this might be where your reluctance to "truck with Showa" is to the detriment of your enjoyment of this movie. Or, even if you still disagreed with it, maybe you could've appreciated the consistency at least. The way Hongo's approval of Ryunosuke as a true Kamen Rider calls back to Kazami Shirou's approval of Yuki Joji. The way Hongo's gratitude for being remodified calls back to Tsukuba Hiroshi's gratitude towards the scientist who performed his surgery. It's all pretty faithful to Ishinomori's vision, whether that's your thing or not.

I recall about DreamSword disliking the movie, but I forget what predictions he called. Can somebody remind me please?

I know he hadn't watched SkyRider at the time, so I'm curious to know if his opinion has changed since then.

George: "Hmm, I wonder which party member I should give Hyper Muteki to."

Sakura: "Muteki."

George: "Meh, guess I'll just give it to Yuri-sempai then."

Yuri: "How prodigious!"

Why is EX-Aid the only Rider to get two places in the roster anyway?

He's very weird! I was honestly pretty intrigued by Devil City in the opening... but, nope, vague World Domination plot, no sense of what world this guy is actually looking to build in the aftermath.

Yeah, I ain't immune to that stuff. Watching Rintaro be very non-suspicious in his confusing and accidentally-pervy visit to Happy Spa? I'm into that! I'm very into seeing whatever parts of Saber I'm allowed.

I don't 100% remember the Seiken Swords deal from the finale, but they do address Touma's absence: Rintaro is dispatched by Sophia to go give him Rekka and get him to help out.

Which is impressive for Sophia to think of that, considering that Touma was presumed dead at this point in the show. :p