But he still was a rider because in Hibiki, riders and Oni were the same thing. So he was technically a rider as much as everyone else.

I know this but at the time of release it wasnt a Rider show as far as I know

*During initial planning and production
At release it was called "Kamen Rider Hibiki"

well how bout that. guess you really do learn something new every day.

That's like saying Haruto isn't a Rider because he's a Wizard.

For the 7425th time: Hibiki was ALWAYS a Kamen Rider show and they didn't change it for the release. It was a Rider show during planning AND production. There were talks of another show following Blade, but once the concept of "Hibiki" was made, it was also decided that it was a Kamen Rider show.
http://igadevil.tumblr.com/post/5532...u-mention-that

Well I've been corrected now it was all a misunderstanding of how the productions went. Besides, in Haruto's reveal he was called a Kamen Rider and went with the name Kamen Rider Wizard...unless im mistaken there too

As posted before, Hibiki was also always a Kamen Rider.

I am really bad about remembering that Kabuto exists. :lol

There are a lot of Heisei Rider shows where the term "Kamen Rider" is never actually used. Don't read too much into it.

I dun even care. I haven't watched Hibiki. I've never been interested in Hibiki. And I don't think I'll ever make the time to see it. I'm just relaying the popular, though apparently false, rumor about it.
I'm not always right :p

If you don't care anyway, why even bother to spread false rumors?

Because I was unaware.

For some reason, there's this one part of the Gaim x Drive movie that really confused me. Takatora uses Duke's Genesis Driver to transform into Zangetsu-Shin, and not Duke Melon-Energy. At first it sounded like a plothole, but then I got to thinking:


What if, in the case of the Energy Lockseeds, the undersuits are actually tied to the lockseed and not the Driver itself? The regular lockseeds appear to be more 'natural' while the Energy Lockseeds, IIRC, were artificially created (hence the whole soda vs juice thing). There's one other type of artificial lockseed that shows up in the series, which is the Yomotsu Heguri lockseed, which has the ability to overwrite the undersuit data in Mitsuzane's belt (even if it is just a red repaint with slight retooling).

This would explain why Kaito still transforms into Baron Lemon-Energy rather than Duke Lemon-Energy with what we can assume is Ryoma's Genesis Driver. It would also explain why Takatora transforms into Zangetsu Shin instead of Duke with his original Melon-Energy lockseed.

I always figured that the Ride Wear was tied to the Rider not the belt but that makes sense too

Someone actually had that theory a couple days ago on Tumblr. It makes perfect sense.

Also there is no faceplate on the genesis driver.
The faceplate pretty much signifies that it is bonded to the vanilla user.
Maybe somewhere along the way Ryoma must have decided to remove this feature since there is the possibility of losing or getting the belt destroyed, which can result in a huge setback for example if you are outnumbered or are ambushed by enemies, etc.

I'd argue that the only reason the Prototype Sengoku drivers even had that feature in the first place is because the Armored Riders were essentially test subjects and you can't really make accurate observations if your test subject is constantly a different person.

Since they were giving these belts out to the dance teams, you'd imagine the belt would get tossed around from member to member a lot, so they felt the need to user-lock it to prevent that from happening.

Actually, Kaito never used Lemon Energy after his Genesis Driver was zapped. Only his Sengoku Driver forms and his Overlord form. It was Yoko who took Ryoma's Driver and used it to become Marika, as opossed to the Duke Peach Energy Arms you would expect if Genesis Drivers used the same ride wear system as the Sengoku Drivers.

Regardless, the ride wear being linked to the lockseed does make the most sense and is consistent with everything we've seen. Though it makes me wonder what suit you'd get from Kouta's Lemon Energy Lockseed, the one he got from Sagara. It's the only ELS we see that's never used in a Gensis Driver, since his Cherry and Peach Energy locks were taken directly from Sid and Yoko.

All of this has had me wondering. Okay, the Sengoku Drivers (test subject types) are bonded to their wearers. What would happen if the wearer died? Would the belt become vacant again and able to take on a new barer? For instance, Kaito comes back and dies in the Gaim/Drive movie. Would that Sengoku Driver be able to be used by someone else if it were recovered?

Most likely or someone of the same bloodline would have to where it.

Oh damn, you're right on that one. My mistake.

I feel as though the Lemon Energy Lockseed didn't have any ride wear attached to it yet and if it did, it'd most likely be Duke's. Sagara apparently stole it from Ryoma, so I'd assume that it either wasn't intended for anybody yet, or, more likely, that it was Ryoma's personal lockseed.

I think that the belt would just be lost forever, unless you had a twin or a clone of some sort. Although in Full Throttle's case, the Kaito in that movie isn't the real Kaito but merely a machine replica, so I'd imagine he doesn't have any DNA for the belt to be user-locked, but I could be wrong.

I imagine Ryoma would have been able to undo the biometric locks, either permanently or just 'blanking' it so that it can be locked to another user. As for after Ryoma's death, Takatora was confident that enough of Ryouma's notes and schematics survived for others to make Sengoku Drivers. So I figure another sufficently skilled scientist/engineer could figure out how to unlock the prototypes, given enough time.

Uh, not to rain on anyone's parade, but the "Genetic Ride Wear being tied to the Energy Lockseed, not the Drivers" is canon. It said so on the official site after Kaito got Lemon Energy. The reason he's still Baron is because Ryoma programmed his Genesis Driver with his Sengoku Driver's Ride Wear.

Probably not. When a Rider isn't wearing his Driver for any reason, they might as well be dead as far as the Driver is concerned and if they're dead they might as well be alive. How would the Driver be aware of its wearer's death?

Unless....Its the Driver that killed him!! *dun dun duuuuun*

Not sure where you're seeing the plot hole, this happened at least once on the show. Yoko used Ryouma's Genesis Driver after hers was disabled and she was still Marika.

Well that's what I'm saying. Even in the show the same thing happened, but I always assumed they fixed her original driver, likely with Kaito's help.


It wasn't until the movie where I started getting confused since Takatora straight up uses Ryoma's Genesis Driver and I had always assumed that the Ride Wear, like with the Sengoku Driver, was tied to the belt itself.

No idea where to put this 'cuz it's Ghost rumors... but this is ALLEGEDLY a spy cam of our titular rider. I had a hunch he'd be purple for some reason. If this image has any credibility, that might be true. What do you think?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7sOuFbhG6t...74682711_n.jpg

2spooky4me.

So is gaim the strongest rider? Kouta is an overlord but does an overlords power affects gaims power that makes him strong?

It's a toss-up between Gaim and Decade. The real question is "Can Tsukasa use Kouta's God-power after using the Gaim Henshin card?"

I don't think Gaim or Decade are "Strongest." (Is there even a Kamen Ride Gaim card for Decade?)
Kabuto can move at the speed of light (Hell, the bastard can reverse and travel through time). Faiz can move at the speed of sound (For a couple seconds). OOO can stop time altogether.
Kuuga has that infamous kick. Blade is functionally immortal. Double has access to almost all information.
I don't think that just because Kouta is an overlord makes him the strongest...

well, he was advertised as the world's strongest rider.

now strongest could probably be different from powerful if you wish to compare him to someone like Kuuga or Agito.

also, I don't count Tendou because the whole "light speed and can travel through time" is not a fair assumption. hell, Skyrider beat him in the Gaim movie, after Kabuto beat Stronger.

Well that and he got his asskicked by MegaHex

Kouta isn't the strongest but he is in the top ones because he got the forbidden fruit and is now god-like in nature.

I say Kouta is the strongest, as in physically the strongest as he is a weapons based rider, but probably not the most powerful.

we have yet to see if fruity sengoku space jesus powers get matched up to world shattering rider kicks and that one guy who rider kicked god.

I take things at face value, evaluating the characters and how they operate. I don't care what a non-canon movie says, otherwise Decade is unstoppable while going through an emo phase, but not when he's being normal.
Being able to literally travel through time seems to be a quite an overpowered advantage that is constantly ignored when Kabuto needs to lose.

Who got their ass kicked? Gaim or one of the other hundred characters I named? :lol

Even so if you compare him to another god-like character in Godai I still wouldn't call him the strongest. While he was able to send Helheim off to another world, we're never told if he can control it to the point of the Inves (and if we are I probably forgot). He can control inves and has the ability to summon all the weapons, but is that really god-like? In context with the story, yes. But in terms of power I'd say no.

On the other side we have Godai, a person who we see slowly grow more and more powerful with each form until he virtually does gain the power of being an almost god like being in power. He's so strong that the police had to find him designated areas to fight so he wouldn't destroy everything and has a final form that can literally bring about ultimate darkness and probably the apocalypse should something go wrong.

Plus we have guys like Tendou who is a human Delorean, Takumi, Shouichi, Kenzaki, and a few more who can hold a pretty good claim to the title. Honestly I'd say either Godai or Tendou are the strongest. Godai due to sheer power and Tendou due to the time traveling.

Pretty much EVERYONE was advertised as the strongest rider at some point. Same with Super Sentai. They just say that because it's good for marketing purposes.
Also, many evil riders claim to be the strongest riders as well so... yeah. Those words don't mean much.

exactly! it's so overpowered and I think every writer that has to include Kabuto gets him defeated in every movie first because "I don't wanna deal with all that time traveling bullshit."

it's the main reason why I hate it when Kabuto comes up in a conversation because it always leads to "well, my character can travel through time" might as well give them all the powers. I'm sorry, i just knew somebody who was a beyond die hard for Kabuto and I HATED talking to him.

back to Kouta and comparing him to Godai. I think these are two very different ways of going about how their abilities work. Kouta was a straight physical rider who could use powerful special attacks, but they are were still somewhat physical moves, while i see Godai is more straight up power, not strength. basically one is an immovable object while one is an unstoppable force.

https://everydayhenshin.files.wordpr...4pgho1_500.jpg
The Strongest Rider. :lol