Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633705)

Again, I watch snippets because I still had hope. And I ALWAYS watch form debuts. When I mocked the Mugen catchphrase, it's not because of delivery, but how it doesn't make sense to say that before a finishing move and what not. Maybe I'm just taking a show about transforming superheroes too seriously, but I just find that line narmy

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich (Post 633706)

Ah, that's a bit different then. You're still being kind of deprived of context though, right? Did you watch the whole episode? Because Takeru explicitly explains what he means when he says that both right before he comes back and at the end of the episode. Not to mention how the idea had been building up throughout the show. The corn factor may be high, but it absolutely makes sense for him to say it when he does.

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633708)

Again, only snippets, so no. However, as Ace Attorney proves, if something is stupid but makes sense, it's still stupid

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich (Post 633709)

As stupid as fighting crime with toy cars, using fruit as armor, never shutting up about being the last hope, never shutting up about friendship, underpants...

I just don't feel that's a valid complaint when talking about Kamen Rider. "Stupid but makes sense" is pretty much its entire mission statement.

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633710)

Let me say it differently. There's a limit of stupidity I can take, and Ghost's more silly tone doesn't compensate like how touching Drive was or how surprisingly dark Fourze could get, and Gaim being Gaim.

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633710)

I'll give you OOO as I don't like it though

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich (Post 633711)

Ghost has not been more silly than any other show. It's been touching and it's been dark too, and it's been just as much of a writing clusterf*** as Gaim, at that, so I'm still not sure what your problem is.



Well crap, now I'm curious what your problems with OOO are too. I think that show was great and unlike with Ghost I'm not alone in thinking that.

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633712)

Onari. Onari alone is more silly than most Rider characters,

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633712)

"ONIIIIIIICHAN don't trust him desu uguuuuu" IMMA TRUST HIM!

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633712)

Alain reveals he could have gotten Kanon out of the Eyecon meaning Makoto only had to ask "You don't understand"

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633712)

Don't get me started on Newton's Eyecon...

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633712)

Honestly...It just bored me, I didn't click with the characters, I tried rewatching it in January, but after 14 episode, I couldn't go further.

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633712)

Time for an actual question!Would another attorney Rider be cool?

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich (Post 633713)

Again, I flatly disagree with this. Guys like Bravo and everyone in Drive were loudly mugging for the camera well before he was.



That's Makoto's entire arc though. He's insanely stubborn and cares about his friends to the point where he refuses to listen to his friends. You complain the characters aren't fleshed out and then complain when they give the characters flaws.

It's the same deal with Takeru being passive too. He doesn't have any clue how to find Eyecons beyond waiting for Gramps to tell him where one is, or waiting for the Ganma to start doing stuff. Not to mention one of those 20-ish day gaps in the first arc is a direct result of him moping over Specter kicking the crap out of him and stealing Edison.



He never says anything that explicit. I think the implication is that he means he could make her a Ganma, the way they are. I believe Makoto's response was actually "not like that" followed by "you wouldn't understand." He wants her to be properly alive again.



Okay, instead I'll just point out the Billy the Kid, Goemon, Ryoma, Himiko, and Specter and Necrom's Eyecons (except Nobunaga) all just existed too.



Fair enough, but that still doesn't make it horrible. Bad, maybe, but not THAT bad. I'm sorry I dragged this out so long, but I get so confused whenever someone talks about Ghost like it's the biggest piece of trash ever.



If it's anything like Ryuki world in Decade, absolutely not!

No but really, Kitaoka was cool and the concept is decent enough to work in a number of different ways. I'm all for it if it's good.

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633714)

True, but Gaim and Drive compensated their sillyness for enjoyable moments, likeable characters, and great stories, something I personally can't say I experienced too well in Ghost

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633714)

I GET it's his arc. I just think it's fucking stupid. Takeru blatantly said he's willing to help, but nooooo trust the guy who can't be trusted

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633714)

Takeru blatantly said he's willing to help, but nooooo trust the guy who can't be trusted

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633714)

I'd be constantly trying to find Specter in that scenario as my fucking life would be on the line, not go all "Ohhh, I got beaten up and he made me saaaaaaaad"

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633714)

40 fucking days.

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633714)

I don't believe Takeru is the kind of character to mope around that long.

Originally Posted by Annuga (Post 633714)

I've explained to you before that Newton pisses me off because it potentially conflicts with Takeru's ideals...Also, we SAW Billy the Kid get turned into an Eyecon, by Takeru's method of collecting Eyecons.

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich (Post 633724)

And I find all three of those things to be in Ghost, so while that is, once again, a completely valid reason to dislike the show, I don't think it's grounds to call it crap.


Hey, remember when Kouta couldn't figure out Micchi was trying to kill him for like 15 episodes? What an IDIOT, right? Way to drag that one out, writers. Sure is handy Bravo never happened to be around for a fight scene with Zangetsu Shin until the plot decided Kouta should know he was a fake. They don't even set it up, Oren just jumps into frame in the middle of a scene for no reason other than to point that out.

I just said all that, but guess what? I forgive it. I don't think that's a big enough problem to hurt Gaim and it's only written like that because it serves its purpose. But when you go looking for holes in the logic of pretty much any show you're going to find them. That's just how it is.



And he thinks Takeru is a wimpy idiot at that point, which is something I think you have in common with him. What good is his help? I know Saionji looks like a bad guy, and is, but Makoto doesn't, because he was being irrational. People are like that sometimes.


Well I'm glad you're so tough then! As far as Takeru's concerned, a guy who wants his Eyecons and can completely wipe the floor with him in a fight to get those Eyecons just showed up, so it seems natural enough to doubt your own chances at that point.


It was actually about 14, which I think is a notable difference.


Well then as someone who's put an egregious amount of thought into this show since I found out it was apparently s***, and as someone who can actually remember most of the events, let me assure you self-doubt was the crux of his character throughout those first 11 episodes. You can call it dumb if you want, just like with Makoto, but it's very much in character. He's only human. He can't be all smiles all the time and the nature of his situation weighs down on him a lot.




AHA! Little did you know I was merely baiting you with that remark (actually I forgot myself until I went to check right after I posted that). If Billy the Kid was summoned that way, who the hell's to say Newton and everyone else weren't too? Specter and Saionji could have easily been running around before and during the first 3 episodes getting Eyecons the same way. From there you can assume Yurusen got it from Eadith and just like that, you've cracked the mystery not even Shinnosuke could solve. You can still complain about them not explaining it in detail, but it makes sense.