It's unusual for me too, because what I remember most is the honeymoon period of early Revice, when people were convinced it was going to be so much better than how*awful* Saber was. To find everyone hates it so much has honestly been a bit of a surprise, especially since I did see vague positive things all the way through, albeit with the vague negative things too.

KAMEN RIDER REVICE HYPER-BATTLE VIDEO: SAY HELLO TO THE SECONDARY RIDER!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/revice/hbv2a.png

I love how nerdy this thing got.

Revice was a show that was ostensibly about the 50-year history of Kamen Rider, but got way less visibly celebratory as the series went on. The early form changes are all History Of Kamen Rider (well, Heisei Rider, mostly), but once we get to Barid Rex, we’re pretty much just doing suits that accentuate and elaborate on Revice’s themes and aesthetic. There’s for sure still elements at play that pay homage to the whole franchise – Androzani’s been doing a heroic job detailing them all – but they’re not really the focal point of the story. Revice grew out of that phase, for better or worse.

So it’s nice to have one last little goof-off HBV special for the anniversary season, where the Igarashi Extended Family spends ten minutes bickering over which of them, if any, is the season’s Secondary.

That is possibly the most specifically nerdy Kamen Rider discussion for a special to ever take part in, and it’s one that everybody in the fandom has fallen prey to at least once. (The biggest offender is probably Blade, but I can imagine that the topic came up occasionally in Geats discussion.) We all have this vocabulary we’ve cobbled together to help organize our thoughts on Kamen Rider, and it sometimes makes us miss the forest for the trees. Trying to decide if Daiji or Kagerou or Hiromi or Vice is the Secondary is maybe a square peg in a round hole. It’s not how these shows are probably made anymore, and the distinction doesn’t affect the story being told. It’s nerd trivia, and it’s not really talking about art.

But, shit, I love indulging in trivia on occasion, so I was super into the baffling logic and surprising evasions of this episode’s dip in the Nerd Waters. The eventual reveal of Ikki being the Secondary to Genta’s Primary is deliciously absurd while still being logical, and god bless Ikki for trying not to seem absolutely crushed by the consensus of the group. I’d maybe’ve clarified that Evil is an antagonist Rider, and Live is his Secondary, but everything else was spot on and probably a real debate that happened on Japanese Twitter.

Beyond that, this thing had the usual gigantic pile of bizarre details I come to HBVs for: The alternate Ikki, Daiji, Sakura, Hiromi, and Vice are, respectively, a Fenix officer, a three-year old, an anaconda, a monk, and a rice cooker; the main villain is werewolf who has already turned 80% of his world into puppies; and the actual editor of TV-Kun shows up to tell Ikki that Revice can’t be the Secondary because they’ve got magazines to sell.

I don’t know that this one ended up saying anything about Secondary Riders, nor was it maybe aiming to. I think they just wanted to have a stupid, circular argument about arbitrary designations, and that’s it. REVICE IS FOR THE FANS!

https://kamenriderdie.com/images/kr/revice/hbv2b.png

Note: I was not planning on doing the second HBV tonight, but then I found out that my copies – and, I guess, all copies – of the Revice Anime and first TTFC stage show weren’t subbed. Sorry! Maybe someday someone’ll get around to subbing them, and I can come back and talk about them!

I don't think that's an issue in a longer series but not a merchandise based show that only goes on for a year

I think the reason that Revice is potentially more disliked is because it was liked a lot early on. People were excited and got invested. Then it burned a lot of people. Getting something soured is far worse for most than never getting into it.

Probably the reason people often are surprisingly mad at Wizard for looking super cool and then being a show focused on MotW Plots. Just to a far lesser extent.

Same like Ghost even when I first watched it was bad like I thought the villains sucked but it's just roll your eyes (I ACTUALLY THINK THIS SHOW IS AT POINTS WORSE THAN GHOST)

Okay, about the second HBV.

This is written by the same guy who did Birth of Chimera, and as I said in my review of that, he definitely feels more in his element with this kind of plotting. Especially the fact that parodies Nigou’s Christmas episode, with Tamaki’s actor playing the role of Col. Zol. Which was basically the joke I went with this time.

(Note: This takes place in the alternate universe with no secondaries)

Ikki: It’s Ikki’s… Stamp Navi! Alright everyone, thanks for cheering me on in my battles with the Deadmans. Make sure to use antibacterial wipes when cleaning up dust for better results*. Today’s Vistamp is this one.

Gold Spino!

https://youtube.com/watch?v=uOTIMwb-bZo&feature=share

Gold Up! Oh! Me! Say! Showtime! Kamen Rider! Yeah, gonna do it now! Gonna do it now! A Golden Shine, A Connected Will! Go on! Gold Spino!

George: This Vistamp harnesses the power of the Nigou Spirit to counter the unique chemistry of Col. Julio’s Ookami Deadman form. Just like this guy.

Lockseed: Nigou!

Ichimonji: Henshin!

George: Kamen Rider Nigou, Hayato Ichimonji. Shocker’s second attempt to create a Hopper Man, he was saved by Rider Ichigou and subsequently became his successor. After defeating Shocker’s Col. Zol, he left for Europe, returning to aid his fellow Riders during future times of crisis.

Ikki: But unfortunately, I wasn’t able to make use of Ichimonji-san’s power, as the sole Rider battling the Deadmans.

George: It’s okay. After I gave it to your alternate self, he was able to defeat Col. Julio with ease. And I was inspired. I’ve created a Rider System for my own use, combining the powers of all 10 of your forms.

Suddenly, the screen behind them buzzes, before the image of Olteca dressed in a white tuxedo with a Dracula cape, sat on a red throne appears.

Ikki: Dr. Olteca!

Olteca: Hear this, Kamen Rider. I congratulate you on the demise of Col. Julio. However, myself and Ambassador Aguilera will be coming at you with more ferocity than before. We’ll be calling upon our strongest cultists from Europe** to come and challenge you. And soon, our glorious Hellish Deadmans Army will reign supreme. (Video ends)

Ikki: In that case, I’d better head to Europe and stop their operations there. (He puts his hands on George’s shoulder) Can I trust you to protect Japan and my family in my absence?***

George: You can count on me, Rider Revi. I’ll be protecting Japan starting from the next instalment (turns towards the screen) Until next time, we’ll see you then****.

And there’s a few specifically Showa gags in this skit.

* This line from Ikki parodies how episode of Skyrider would end with the hero thanking the viewer for apwatching and then giving a lesson vaguely related to the next episode.

** In the older shows, the villains would often explain that the stronger members they called on came from branches in foreign countries.

*** A reference to how when a new Rider appeared, the old ones would go overseas to fight the villain’s foreign branches, leaving the new kid in charge of protecting Tokyo.

**** The closing line is taken from the English dub of Ultraman Z, which was my way of indicating this is an alternate universe.

And as for there being Secondary discourse concerning Revice. Put simply,during a group watch of this, I commented “Meanwhile, the real secondary humbly watches as her compatriots engage in this madness”.

No wrong answers to this puzzle! Happy to accept Sakura as the secondary to Lovekov's primary!

And thanks for the fun skit!

My view on Revice’s secondary is that narratively it’s Sakura, merch-wise it’s Daiji.

Here's a take
Ikki is the primary
Sakura is the secondary
But!
Hiiromi isnt thw 4thiary, but Daiji's secondary

Note: I've not watched revice.

Perhaps this message, which I also hoped to get through people, would be dismissed because Hiromi is seen as the heroic representative (which may be true, but..), and likely the message of self-care would be overlooked in exclusively just looking his sacrifice first, ask questions later, probably considering those who warned him about self-care like Daiji or (post middle) George as worse people just trying to curb his heroism. Seems that in this franchise, people do appreciate straight heroes more if they're thrown into torture porn and endless suffering (though ofc if they're not "whiny" too despite being a loser), and maybe the same applies to people like Kagami.... o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶w̶a̶ ̶R̶i̶d̶e̶r̶s̶.̶

Inner demons in this series is about the personification of any humans' flaws or weaknesses. Most if not all people have an inner side that they repress nearly constantly. This includes the Igarashi siblings. For the plot, seems that as the Igarashis inherited Giff DNA, they as a result possess inner demons that embodies their respective innder side. Other humans still have their inner sides but they don't have inner demons, unless when the Deadmans stamped them. Though for the most part this is handled well, I do feel that sometimes it feels reasonable too that they dislike their demons around and want to get rid of them, despite wanting to show getting rid of their demons as refusal to face one's self, as how both Kagerou and Vail are uncaring psychos who tried to kill their hosts’ family, or performing other moments like ruining their family moment, and don’t show a shred of remorse for this, they're nothing but nuisance at best or actual dangerous threat to be around, albeit they managed to pull it off with Genta and Vail.

I've seen you hoping for a change of pace of families not being, I've thought that it'd be not long that you'd get it in Revice (of which turns out you watched Geats first, which goes back to found families, grim loners, and All Dads Are Dead) though dunno if mentioning that would be spoilers - I personally don't think so to talk about basic premise of the show. The criticism to this show would be, this, that the Igarashi family should be more of a constant focus of the show, rather than the show trying to do too much later. Ikki forgetting his family should be done not only as a conclusion, but well, just his progressive arc as, he's the MC. Though I feel that it might work better (but even more tragic) if the contract deal is about Ikki being forgotten by everyone else. Though just feels that the Igarashi family may be made too special to others and get too much shilling in Genta saying they can do it all.

I'd think I hoped that for these other stuff, Revice can display varying kind of families well, other than the Igarashis, like the dysfunctional one in Karizakis, or the fake one in the Ushijimas. The Karizaki one is controversial due to it involving George's retcon and the attempt of making Masumi look good falling flat in the end. The Ushijimas just fall out of focus with it solely being used as raising Hikaru to be a Rider that nobody asked for. Yeah the Karizaki one is the message I wouldn't want to see regarding family-centric shows, the message of giving free pass to anyone that is a part family, but especially the Oketani 2-parter, of which regarding Geats, I'm so far relieved of what they're going through regarding this, but I'm really worried about the upcoming episode.

People do often complain about Giff and Weekend, but Fenix isn't really subjected to this, though dunno if it's about the organization or just specifically beloved characters like Hiromi and George. This watch thread seems to be one of the few which doesn't really give much thoughts of George, but specifically about him at the beginning who got as much attention and appreciation as people like Kuroto and Woz (who if someone don't like perhaps they'd be condemned), like he perhaps would be so relatable with him being a Kamen Rider fanboy (though I do feel that his terrible traits are overlooked only because he's a fan of a franchise about heroes).