Oh man THIS. I have a lot of problems with Ghost but this was perhaps its biggest sin of all for me.

would you consider even the worst seasons of kamen rider worth watching? like even the bad seasons are still better than other shows?

I mean...Once Mugen showed up it stopped making sense for him to use Ore, so it doesn't bother me. In fact, the times when he used Ore or one of the heroes seemed forced more than anything. Like, "hey don't forget about these suits, we still have toys of them for you to buy."

I'd say at least check an episode out. I've liked most Kamen Riders that I've seen but watched one episode of Ghost to know that that show just wasn't gonna be my cup of poisoned tea (it's always poisoned - don't drink it!).

I've been out of the loop for awhile, but was there not a Super Hero Taisen movie during Ghost's run?

I'd say they are. I think the worst Kamen Rider ever really gets is "fun action show", so, especially if one of those bad seasons sounds up your alley, you might really enjoy it. Or not, but absolutely watch an episode or two anyway.

Yeah, I said that, but Ghost actually brought me around to the idea way better than other shows do. Still wish we'd had another bike action scene after... episode 30? I guess even that's better than a lot of other shows.

That's what the Kamen Rider #1 movie was, technically.

Yeah, but it bugs me no end that once Mugen shows up Ore is barely in the OP either. It's only there right at the end with the equally forgotten Ghost Striker.

I mean I don't expect him to use it much for the reasons you stated, but you'd think that as a visual centrepiece in the marketing of the show it would still have SOME firm place there.

Decade. While the show did had a bad ending and did screw up on some of the lore to some of the fans. I did find the show enjoyable at times and grown to like it over the years. Ghost to me is my least favorite rider show.

One other big downside is that you lose the whole orange/blue contrast thing he and Specter had going on, especially since Makoto stopped caring about his base form too.

I think what they did is a natural enough evolution for the show, especially since it makes Necrom look less like the odd man out, now that they're all buddies, but it's hard not to wish they had done it differently.

Also, I sort of disagree with this. Ever since Mugen showed up I think they've done a good job of showing how the more specialized abilities of the heroes can still be useful. Think Beethoven in episode 44.

Since there are 15 Eyecons of history's heroes. How do you picture 15 Eyecons of history's villains?

1. Jack the Ripper
2. Vlad the Impaler
3. Rasputin
4. Genghis Khan
5. Al Capone
6. Adolf Hitler
7. Attila the Hun
8. Elizabeth Bathory
   9.
   10.
   11.
   12.
   13.
   14.
   15.

I need the Necrom theme

EDIT: Whoops, awkward post timing...

Well, here's my favorite Necrom-related piece of music instead:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3tm-KtcBTIY

Here's both, you're welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFEv...V0oQmeyS17oOVZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIVw...7oOVZ&index=17

Forgot to add, the second half of Necrom's bad guy theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVU7...7oOVZ&index=18

Given that Ghost is finishing it's conclusion, is the season overall a decent season or a not so great season, I have still yet to get around to finishing it since I am still at like twenty odd episodes in.

It's whatever you make of it. There's a lot of stuff to love about it and just as much to hate. I think it's maintained a pretty stable level of quality throughout, so however you feel about what you've seen is probably how you'll feel about the whole show.

So in a sense I would say it was decent not great but then not so bad, ultimately although that being says whether I feel it will be worse will be depending on how Onari is by the end really.

Well I would say but then I don't dislike Faiz as much as I used to and Shunpei from Wizard doesn't frustrate as much as he used to so I might lighten to Onari overtime.

Onari was one of the things that stood out to me in such a good way. It's almost as if he's a take on Shunpei's character done right. It really helps that he has a good actor behind him.

Well, Ghost picks up a bit when it starts giving more attention to Alain. I personally liked it, but as it was my first Heisei Rider series, I didn't have a lot to compare it to.

So I have a question now. Why does everybody get upset when the final form of a Rider is over-used?

Personally, it's because it's like when it shows up, all other forms become insignificant and useless. Even though the other forms are just as capable of doing the job, they completely forget about them in lieu of the Final Forms.

Because
1. Like stated above, it mitigates the importance of the other forms
2. The show is marketed with the Base Form as the trademark.....It'd be nice to be reminded of that now & then
3. There are times when the heroes will spam the Final Forms in situations where it's REALLY unnecessary, such as using it to take out low-class grunts that they already were capable of defeating in lower level forms. Kiva is one of the worst offenders of this for example. This can lead to confusion in portrayal of powerscaling.

P.S. Just throwing this out there, seeing the recent Kamen Rider Ghost OSTs being posted....MY BOI SPECTER WITH THE BEST MUSIC ON THE TRACK!!!

Yeah, this can get pretty egregious.

I am always reminded of this one part in Ghost that I still haven't gotten over even after all this time. I think it was episode 26, Alain in Grimm Damashii and Takeru in Toucon Houdini Damashii were fighting the plane Ganma. But then, for the finisher, instead of staying in the forms they already were in (Necrom in one of its upgraded forms and Ghost in an extra upgraded upgrade form) Takeru has to pull out Grateful because...Grateful. So basically, Necrom is downgraded while Takeru goes from overpowered to comically overpowered, just to take out the exact type of mooks he'd been taking care of in his base Damashii since the start of the show. It's nuts. It's overkill, and it's dumb.

I mean...Grateful's not the final form, mind you, but it's just this type of situation. It can be dumb.

It becomes really strange in a show marketing a gimmick for said gimmick to become worthless since only one special trinket is used anymore.

It's not really a problem I have, just something worth noting.

My key problem is that power scaling thing.

I think it's a not so great season, but if you enjoyed the first 20 episodes you might as well continue and see if you like what they do with the rest too. If you had no fun with the first 20 episodes though you can drop the show without remorse.

Probably because it cuts screentime of other suits. That's about it.

With Kiva, Emperor was the only suit that wasn't too heavy for the suit actor, so letting Kiva only use Emperor is somewhat justified there

It really does just come down to thinking the main form should be the main form. I actually stopped having a problem with the way Ghost did it after Mugen because there's a solid internal logic to it now. I remember after he got Boost he just sort of randomly picked that or Ore with little rhyme or reason.

I also think it makes for more interesting writing if you give other forms some kind of inherent limitations. Like just in Drive, for example, it makes logical sense for Shinnosuke to stick to Type Speed because Wild and Technic are more specialized, and Dead Heat and Formula have similar problems with prolonged use. That's pretty solid right there, but then Type Tridoron shows up and he just starts going directly to that because why wouldn't he? From that point on it always felt pretty token to me whenever Type Speed showed up, so honestly I'm sort of glad Ghost doesn't beat around the bush with its final form.

It is fucking terrible. At this point I honestly think it's even worse than Kiva.

What is this, I don't even.

A lot of my problems with it are already covered, but I also feel that a good final form is one that comes with some kind of inherent downside. There should be some kind of cost to using its power so that it doesn't get overused. That part of why I think King Form Blade is probably the best final form ever: it's incredibly powerful, but every time he uses it, Kenzaki runs the risk of being fully absorbing all of the Undead he's channeling. Giving the final form such a big drawback not only helps sell how powerful it is, but it also creates more drama and tension when the Rider is forced to use it.

*represses urge to argue at length*

Right, this is sort of what I was getting at. I'm cool with just a simple excuse for why they don't just go right to the final form too though. Like how Shining Form in Agito is solar-powered for some reason. It's weird, but it keeps Burning relevant.

Blade's King Form is so well done. Especially when you realize what he's doing when he begins using it like it's going out of style (That is, if you notice it before Tachibana explicitly points it out to the audience).

I guess to me it depends on the form. Only using Mugen makes sense to me, because it's the strongest. Sure, it might be overkill to take out mooks with it, but if you were fighting evil monsters, why would you want to go easier on the weaker ones? If the suit is completely OP, then it makes complete, 100% sense to me to continue using it over the base suit.

I do agree about the drawbacks though - it makes suits more interesting when the final forms have some. For example, Dead Heat. Sure, Drive gets more upgrades, but it ends up becoming Mach's final form, and he doesn't use it a lot because of the drawback. But he eventually manages to work around the drawback and use it to his advantage. From what I remember, it still takes a toll on his, but it's a lot easier to control. Using suits like this raise the stakes and are more interesting because of it.

So I definitely agree that final forms with drawbacks are more interesting, but they don't always end up like that. If they're using something like Mugen that has no drawbacks, it really doesn't make sense (to me) to not use it.

Given that his first name is Krim I would agree he is not fully Japanese. Also let's look at Professor Harley

So after watching Kamen Rider x Kamen Rider, Ghost & Drive, Im rethinking watching Ghost. At first I thought it was way too goofy and silly.

You were not wrong.

It's goofy and silly to be sure, but there's a lot of heart to it, and plenty of genuine drama. If you liked the stuff with him in Genesis I can assure you the show is even better.

*tearing hair out*

I'm going to give it another go when I finish the last bit of Genesis, count on it

I do like risk VS reward final forms, so I'll look at the final forms, including other comments in general
Ultimate: Become evil unless Gary Stu, become OP AF
Shining: Solar Power
Survive: No real reason, but given the series, make sense that you'd use this as much as possible
Blaster: Can't remember
King: Risk becoming an insane bloodlusting Undead for incredible power
Armed: You risk losing your oni powers
Hyper: Fuck you I'm Tendou Souji
Liner: Character Development solidified, and was needed so Ryutaro could fight with more than Mamotaros iirc
Emperor: Spammed only because the suit actor had difficulty with the other suits
Complete: don't remember
Extreme: Character development and slowly kills Philip
Putotyra: Stupidly strong, but risk going beserk
Cosmic: All Powers Combined but if your friends want to things without you it doesn't work
Infinity: Mana I guess?
Kiwami: Becoming an Overlord with godly power
Tridoron: Symbolizes the partnership between Shin and Krim
Mugen: HOOMINZ HAEF EENFINUT POTENSHUL

Decade Complete's limitation was having the worst possible suit ever.