Friend, some more spoilers might be a good idea.
Some points:
Complete: Because DAMN YOU DECADE!! with the main risk being ending your series after 30 episodes with no real story
Infinity: It's more that it symbolises Haruto becoming the final hope, as the series says, and becoming stronger than the one who made him, causing problems in the plan
Kiwami: For me, it was a lot more about the loss of humanity than the gaining of power, especially considering the other parts of Gaim

Keep in mind Ultimate only shows up for one episode and is more the culmination of the idea that Kuuga's powers are dangerous throughout the show than its own thing.

Takumi was just too cool to use Blaster a lot of the time.

Was that a thing with Armed? I certainly don't remember it being major.

Liner Form was exclusively for fighting in the past once he can't use the Imajin. I've always thought of it and Climax Form as being equally powerful, but Ryoutarou is a poorer fighter.

Emperor Form is also symbolic of Wataru's arc too. It's Kiva with the chains taken off.

Complete had no real downside.

You say that about Mugen like it's a bad thing. And why does your version of Takeru talk in all-caps?

Burn.

I think Ex-aid makes Decade Complete look good.

A: Onari possessed him
B: Takeru's actor is forgetting how to act professionally again

Ex-Aid looks...Different. Decade Complete still looks laughably bad to me.

Is that one of your problems with Ghost? I think Shun Nishime has done a great job. He can really bring the emotion when the scripts call for it. Stuff like episode 12 springs to mind. Or at the end of 22 where he communicates how traumatized Takeru is from visiting the Gamma world with a simple facial expression.

Is there anyone who could make some of the lines in Ghost sound good?

Shun Nishime's really young I hear, and considering Takeru's character being rather dull, I'd have to blame either the actor, the director or the writer. Philip's actor was 16 but Riku Sanjo is great with Kamen Rider, not to mention Alphonze's VA in the original FMA anime was an actual child in the English dub iirc but I heard the VAs actually loved the source material
Norio Waka-something I think his name was? Dio's voice actor. Literally anything he says sounds godly. Same with Patrick Seitz, his English VA

Well I've never found Takeru to be dull, so I guess that explains that. If I'm remembering right, Ghost is actually tied with Den-O for youngest lead, both of them being 17 at the time. I really genuinely believe he can be surprisingly subtle when the show lets him be, though.

OBJECTION!
Philip was ALSO a lead because of W's duality, and Philip's actor was 16!
The thing is, I just don't like Takeru. There's a reason people were shocked when 40 days went by in between 2 episodes with Takeru seemingly banking on making no progress in the Eyecon hunt. Takeru doesn't DO things. He reacts to the world around him. I did like how he decided to spend his last days making his friends as happy as possible, showing he accepted death and wanted to give his friends beautiful memories. Then again lol4fakedeaths.

Also give me a single good reason Takeru didn't wish himself back to live yet

Umm....because it takes up time to draw out your upgrade device, insert it into your belt/other accessory, and initiate the transformation before proceeding to fight again. All that time taken to do that stuff can be instead used to defeat the monster who we KNOW they are capable of taking out at their current level.

Blaster was used maybe three times in the whole series. I'm not sure why, but it never got much play.

It was more that people who tried to use it temporarily lost access to their powers. There were no drawbacks to the suit itself, apart from it being part of the bastardized mess that was post-29 Hibiki.

Yeah I can kind of give it a pass for that*not for much else though*

Though I thought that it was said that Wateru being only half-fangire couldn't use Kiva's full power without going insane or killing himself in the process which is why Kiva has all those chains on him?

...It's been years since I watched it so I don't remember.

Let's be real here, Shoutarou got way more focus and was the emotional heart of the show. Phillip is more akin to Ichijou or Kiriko than a protagonist in his own right.

A. He saved Kanon instead, the culmination of Specter's talks to him about him being willing to sacrifice himself for someone else, and a decision he made. It's only reactionary because he's literally reacting to something.

B. He can't connect to the Great Eye because of the Ganmeizers.

That feels really, really wrong.
First off, Ichijou was easily the protagonist of Kuuga. Twice as proactive, involved with more plots about the Grongi, and one of the few characters actually trying to unravel the mystery.

But to not call Philip the emotional heart of Double is kind of wrong. Shotaro was the one behind the wheel, but Double was basically Philip's story, and he really felt like the glue holding the agency together.

Shotaro did get more focus AT FIRST. The second half of the plot revolves around Philip finding out his past and stuff. Philip is given MUCH more attention there

Huh. What episode did reason B happen? Or rather, was it before Alain becoming good? If it's before, then kudos to the staff for not simply forgetting

Ehh, sure. I still feel like he's never the focus though. It's kind of hard to describe so I won't try. Certainly he's the second most major character on the show, at least.

I can't remember off the top of my head but I think it was after Alain became good, since that meant he now had access to all fifteen Eyecons. He tries to make a wish but gets blocked out.

I respect your right to hate Ghost, but it seems like you miss a lot of details in that hatred.

Has there been a really good Rider show since Gaim? From what I've heard about Drive and Ghost they seemed to go back to the dumb 2 episode formula and unnecessary slapstick in Wizard.

Drive is actually really good in the later half, I believe it truly becomes good at around episode 17(At least I think that was the episode with the friendly Roimude). And Ghost surprised everyone by not doing the 2 episode. Also, I'm not fond of the 2 episode formula, but that doesn't automatically make the shows bad

I stopped watching around the 18th episode, I usually get updated by looking at snippets and asking friends or lurking forums. I also want to say I don't blindly hate Ghost, as I can give it a few positives (great suits, clever kaijin motives at first, Akari and Yurusen). Just like how Metroid Other M pisses me off but I can compliment it when I feel it's due

Yes. Also yes.

Well it seems a little unfair to act like it's the worst thing since (insert show you don't like) then.

Like, you've never even heard Takeru say 「人間の可能性は無限大だ！」, but you just assume it must be terrible? Ghost is a polarizing enough show that I don't really think it's a good idea to just listen to what others have to say about it, and yes, that includes me. Even if your opinion is still negative, at least it'll be yours.

Again, I watch snippets because I still had hope. And I ALWAYS watch form debuts. When I mocked the Mugen catchphrase, it's not because of delivery, but how it doesn't make sense to say that before a finishing move and what not. Maybe I'm just taking a show about transforming superheroes too seriously, but I just find that line narmy

Ah, that's a bit different then. You're still being kind of deprived of context though, right? Did you watch the whole episode? Because Takeru explicitly explains what he means when he says that both right before he comes back and at the end of the episode. Not to mention how the idea had been building up throughout the show. The corn factor may be high, but it absolutely makes sense for him to say it when he does.

Again, only snippets, so no. However, as Ace Attorney proves, if something is stupid but makes sense, it's still stupid

As stupid as fighting crime with toy cars, using fruit as armor, never shutting up about being the last hope, never shutting up about friendship, underpants...

I just don't feel that's a valid complaint when talking about Kamen Rider. "Stupid but makes sense" is pretty much its entire mission statement.

Let me say it differently. There's a limit of stupidity I can take, and Ghost's more silly tone doesn't compensate like how touching Drive was or how surprisingly dark Fourze could get, and Gaim being Gaim. I'll give you OOO as I don't like it though

Ghost has not been more silly than any other show. It's been touching and it's been dark too, and it's been just as much of a writing clusterf*** as Gaim, at that, so I'm still not sure what your problem is.

Well crap, now I'm curious what your problems with OOO are too. I think that show was great and unlike with Ghost I'm not alone in thinking that.

Onari. Onari alone is more silly than most Rider characters, and I also remember being frustrated by Ghost with the Saionji crap. "ONIIIIIIICHAN don't trust him desu uguuuuu" IMMA TRUST HIM!
Alain reveals he could have gotten Kanon out of the Eyecon meaning Makoto only had to ask "You don't understand" OOOOH, VERY CLEVER WRITERS. NO EXPLANATION BUT INSTEAD SOMETHING THAT IRKS ME THE MOST. CLAP CLAP INDEED. Don't get me started on Newton's Eyecon...

Honestly...It just bored me, I didn't click with the characters, I tried rewatching it in January, but after 14 episode, I couldn't go further. I also don't like the idea of a hobo Rider.

Time for an actual question!Would another attorney Rider be cool? Kitaoka/Zolda didn't really do much with the lawyer thing, and as KR's doing policemen, detectives and now doctors, attorneys could be interesting. Especially considering how popular Ace Attorney is in Japan

Again, I flatly disagree with this. Guys like Bravo and everyone in Drive were loudly mugging for the camera well before he was.

That's Makoto's entire arc though. He's insanely stubborn and cares about his friends to the point where he refuses to listen to his friends. You complain the characters aren't fleshed out and then complain when they give the characters flaws.

It's the same deal with Takeru being passive too. He doesn't have any clue how to find Eyecons beyond waiting for Gramps to tell him where one is, or waiting for the Ganma to start doing stuff. Not to mention one of those 20-ish day gaps in the first arc is a direct result of him moping over Specter kicking the crap out of him and stealing Edison.

He never says anything that explicit. I think the implication is that he means he could make her a Ganma, the way they are. I believe Makoto's response was actually "not like that" followed by "you wouldn't understand." He wants her to be properly alive again.

Okay, instead I'll just point out the Billy the Kid, Goemon, Ryoma, Himiko, and Specter and Necrom's Eyecons (except Nobunaga) all just existed too.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't make it horrible. Bad, maybe, but not THAT bad. I'm sorry I dragged this out so long, but I get so confused whenever someone talks about Ghost like it's the biggest piece of trash ever.

If it's anything like Ryuki world in Decade, absolutely not!

No but really, Kitaoka was cool and the concept is decent enough to work in a number of different ways. I'm all for it if it's good.

True, but Gaim and Drive compensated their sillyness for enjoyable moments, likeable characters, and great stories, something I personally can't say I experienced too well in Ghost

I GET it's his arc. I just think it's fucking stupid. Takeru blatantly said he's willing to help, but nooooo trust the guy who can't be trusted

I'd be constantly trying to find Specter in that scenario as my fucking life would be on the line, not go all "Ohhh, I got beaten up and he made me saaaaaaaad" for 40 days. 40 fucking days. I don't believe Takeru is the kind of character to mope around that long.

That's then either shoddy memory of mine or TV Nihon's translation

I've explained to you before that Newton pisses me off because it potentially conflicts with Takeru's ideals, not to mention it screwed with Drive's story, and I LOVED Drive's story. Also, we SAW Billy the Kid get turned into an Eyecon, by Takeru's method of collecting Eyecons

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...st?cb=20130723

I never said OOO was terrible or even called it bad, I just said I didn't like it, you foolish fool who foolishly thinks of foolish statements only foolish fools would foolishly make :p

Ugh. I WANT to like Decade. The concept is something I like, I like the suits (I know, I'm a freak) but the characters and butchering of previous seasons...Urghhhh

And I find all three of those things to be in Ghost, so while that is, once again, a completely valid reason to dislike the show, I don't think it's grounds to call it crap.

Hey, remember when Kouta couldn't figure out Micchi was trying to kill him for like 15 episodes? What an IDIOT, right? Way to drag that one out, writers. Sure is handy Bravo never happened to be around for a fight scene with Zangetsu Shin until the plot decided Kouta should know he was a fake. They don't even set it up, Oren just jumps into frame in the middle of a scene for no reason other than to point that out.

I just said all that, but guess what? I forgive it. I don't think that's a big enough problem to hurt Gaim and it's only written like that because it serves its purpose. But when you go looking for holes in the logic of pretty much any show you're going to find them. That's just how it is.


And he thinks Takeru is a wimpy idiot at that point, which is something I think you have in common with him. What good is his help? I know Saionji looks like a bad guy, and is, but Makoto doesn't, because he was being irrational. People are like that sometimes.

Well I'm glad you're so tough then! As far as Takeru's concerned, a guy who wants his Eyecons and can completely wipe the floor with him in a fight to get those Eyecons just showed up, so it seems natural enough to doubt your own chances at that point.

It was actually about 14, which I think is a notable difference.

Well then as someone who's put an egregious amount of thought into this show since I found out it was apparently s***, and as someone who can actually remember most of the events, let me assure you self-doubt was the crux of his character throughout those first 11 episodes. You can call it dumb if you want, just like with Makoto, but it's very much in character. He's only human. He can't be all smiles all the time and the nature of his situation weighs down on him a lot.


AHA! Little did you know I was merely baiting you with that remark (actually I forgot myself until I went to check right after I posted that). If Billy the Kid was summoned that way, who the hell's to say Newton and everyone else weren't too? Specter and Saionji could have easily been running around before and during the first 3 episodes getting Eyecons the same way. From there you can assume Yurusen got it from Eadith and just like that, you've cracked the mystery not even Shinnosuke could solve. You can still complain about them not explaining it in detail, but it makes sense.

Did I call it crap?

I feel like this doesn't compare as Kouta and Bitchy Mitchy are established to being friends before Sour Grapes happens in the show itself for a good chunk , while Makoto decided to trust the guy who doesn't clearly have Eyecons

And I'm not judging you. I sure as hell don't like OOO, but I get it's popular and would even recommend it to people. One man's trash might be another man's treasure and all

Still. Who would you rather join forces with? The untrustworthy guy who can make weak ass mooks, or the guy who WANTS to help you, CLEARLY has Eyecons and has beaten those mooks

The following point is moot because we're probably talking about a different thing. I REMEMBER there was a 40 day break in between episodes.

Takeru had been shown to be a cheery character, and as I was thinking of a different episode, I was right :p in all seriousness, it's quite jarring to see such a sudden change in character, like Kouta going from cheery guy to PTSD because of Zangetsu

HOLD IT! You said that because we saw Billy the kid, it's safe to assume that the other Eyecons were made like this, correct. Well in that case, you're forgetting a major detail...WE know it, but Takeru DOESN'T! HE never saw it! And lack of evidence to the former isn't evidence for the latter! And that STILL doesn't make me redeem the Drive epilogue!

Something tells me we should stop for the sake of the other members :p Great debate man, I like a good argument, especially consistent ones

Not to my recollection, but you clearly think it's pretty bad.

Yeah but Kouta still has to be blind to miss both the obvious cues from Micchi and the constant hint-dropping from Kaito, a person who never ever lies about anything ever. The point I'm making is that both Makoto and Kouta make decisions based on their own limited perspective. Kouta just happens to have his head screwed on slightly straighter.

Which brings me to this. It doesn't matter who you or I would team up with because neither of us is Makoto. Saionji also knows about the incident that put Makoto and Kanon in their whole predicament in the first place, which is information Takeru can't give him.

I never got that vibe, if you were worried about that. I'm not judging you either.

There was one right before the 14 day one that was about 20. Maybe you're adding them together in your head? Keep in mind the 20 day one also came after Specter took an Eyecon, in that case Nobunaga.

But it's not jarring because you see him lapse into bouts of mopey sadness as early as episode 2, where he snaps at Akari for giving him an "I just know you'll succeed" speech, even though she obviously means well. It's actually a very consistent part of his character and even afterwards there are times like with Grateful's debut that he regresses a bit. Takeru tries to keep his head held high but sometimes he just can't, which I find keeps him very grounded for how "generic hero guy" he can be.

By the way, that was one of the best episodes of Gaim.

Well in that case I'll just go back to my previous argument of "he's not in much of a position to care," and given how dopey Takeru can be, I'd believe it if you told me the thought of where Newton (or the others) came from genuinely never crossed his mind. For that matter, Onari and Akari probably explained in detail what happened with Billy The Kid, since you see them talking about it in a way that implies he's already been filled in on the details in the very next episode.

Too true. That episode didn't really add enough to Drive to justify its own existence, and it messes with Ghost while it's at it.

Thank you~ :) Although I think the show is doing most of the work for me.

If you actually want to hear more of what I have to say, feel free to PM me.

Right, this isn't the Ghost thread lol.

--

Umm...

What's everybody's favorite bike action scene in Kamen Rider?

Personally, I've always found episode 4 of Kuuga great. You could argue the sheer extent to which Kuuga refuses to get off the bike is overkill but I like to think of it as Yuusuke just being that awesome. Why walk up stairs when you can bike up them?

That's one of the most memorable Kamen Rider moments in general for me. Especially with Kuuga pimpslapping with a bike. I need to finish Kuuga, I don't exactly remember where I was, but the Bat Grongi was getting built up for a rematch

That's basically his trademark move. :lol

Kuuga is full of memorable scenes. I don't always see people talk about the show in general (though the consensus seems to be it was pretty good) but certain moments are iconic, in a way not a lot of other shows seem to be.

Gotta see that - KR needs more biker action in the neo Heisei era. Doesn't look likely for EX-Aid, unfortunately.
My faves so far:
The scene in Blade where Blade is chasing a whacked out Garren (also on a bike) and bunny hops on his back to knock him off was fantastic. Also love the Baron / Mars bike baloney from Gaim Gaiden 1 due to it being totally random and ridiculous- it made me laugh.
Also, that bitchin' Ichigo Cyclone roof to roof jump from the opening credits of Kamen Rider! PULSE POUNDING!

Why does KR always have to have budget problems when it comes to wasted storylines?

Really? If anything, I'd think Ex-Aid may end up having the highest amount of bike-fu in a long time, seeing as how one of the main Riders's main forms is a bike. I expect plenty of bike shenanigans.

The show doesn't get the same amount of money per episode. The first few months get a lot more cash so they can include more dynamic special effects to draw in the audience and make them go buy toys. By the end of the series, Toei is already working on the next show and diverting part of the current show's budget to the new kid. There are also cases where the filming goes over budget, like on Hibiki.

Not saying you're wrong but, that's the only bike that I recall seeing so far. I hope you're right - we need some major RIDER action!

Which rider bike is your "THE BIKE"?

Mine is Gatack Extender.

http://i.imgur.com/WwAE8n3.jpg

Battle Hopper. Because it isn’t just a bike, Battle Hopper is your bro. The one who will back you up in every fight and bring you beer and pizza when you're down.

There's no way any other bike could compete.