http://news.tokunation.com/2016/05/3...uncement-33226

Info is here

So I watched part of Episode 1 of the Blade Scrub. It's so much clearer then when I originally watched it, and it looks really really good. Something I appreciate about Early Heisei Rider is just the look of it. It just looks real. It doesn't look overly dark or overly bright.Compared to the Amazons trailer I watched, it looks stylistically beautiful, but not real.

You ever think we'll go back to that look, or was that style just a byproduct of Toei's production being not as familiar with visual stylization of the picture since Rider only came back in 2000, and they had to learn new technology?

It's because of the limitations of the early generation of digital SD cameras they used to use. Personally, I can't stand the look of early Heisei -- it reads as cheap and ugly, IMO, and not in a charming way.

I think Amazons is the closest we'll ever get to that style of shooting (thank god).

There's nothing particularly solid in either of the articles linked there. Given how gun-shy fansubbers usually are about this sort of thing I'm going to take the fact that Over-Time felt comfortable putting out a batch of the series just a couple days ago to mean nothing more definite has been said since, either.

Not that I'm opposed to more official Toku stuff getting released, mind you. The more the better! I'm just really skeptical about this particular instance given how little Toei seems to care about Kamen Rider going international.

It very much comes down to "those were the cameras they used". I think the frame-rate is even a bit higher(?), further adding to the "soap-opera" feel I'm always going on about.

Well, that makes one of us. Though I know exactly what you mean.

Man, they are missing an opportunity not using AmaHuluFlix to boost tokusatsu in general. It took a bit for anime to catch on, but it did. The same will happen for Kamen Rider, it just needs to be subbed or dubbed (well), not "re-envisioned" into a weaker, Westernized form. When I tried to get people to watch Gaim they'd see the trailer and, invariably, blurt "oh - 'power rangers'..." like I'm some kind of infantile moron. Then I point out that it was written by Gen Urabuchi (blank stare), the guy that wrote Psycho Pass and everyone goes "OHHH! Psycho-Pass! Cool!". It's all about what is acceptable - adults can watch cartoons - even My Little Pony - and it's okay. But weird Japanese sci-fi superhero stuntfests? Oh, well, that's just geeky.Right now, at least. A few more well written shows, Kamen Rider or not, and things will change.

I like both. I like the bright, crazy, well lensed HD neo-Heisei shows and I like the gritty, grungy early Heisei style. Like I said before, it's like digging mid-70's Dr. Who, the effects are budget but the writing is fantastic, making the sum result "charming" - even more so if you're a production wonk.

Honestly I'd prefer to see a Power Rangers-esque adaptation rather then just straight-up porting the shows (though both is ideal). Dragon Knight took some (very tiny) baby-steps in that direction but I've always wanted to see a show like that targeted more towards teens/young-adults/whatever. You know, with not crap acting and such.

...I like Power Rangers, if anyone is wondering.

It's especially baffling given how live-action superheroes ARE kind of mainstream now. Even on TV. If The Flash can be a genuinely successful show on its third season airing in prime time I have no clue why stuff like Kamen Rider can't get in on that action. Now's the time, Toei!

Well, like Power Rangers or not, they are the stumbling block, stateside, for "henshin heroes". Most people know PR as the early show with Rita Rotten, Bulk & Skull and twenty four minutes of brain-dead hijinx with spandex karate and rubber robo action.

Most adults who aren't otaku / nostalgiamaniacs aren't going to sit through that again. Heisei Kamen Rider, even at it's goofiest, isn't as silly as that - but the minute people see someone strike a pose and transform into a helmeted superhero - that's exactly what they think of. Trying to convince them that KR shows actually have plots (Decade not withstanding) go beyond exploding the MotW and are legit entertainment is very, very difficult!

I freely admit to not liking the Rangers (not much into their Sentai twins, either) but, in my opinion, beyond the superficial similarities, the Kamen Rider franchise is worlds apart from Super Sentai.

I'd rather see an "original" rip off like Legend Hero or Bima Garuda - same idea, but not recycling footage / costumes. Same demographic, though.

KAMEN RIDER: BETTER THAN S.H.I.E.L.D., YO!
But, seriously, they're similarly budgeted shows (all of these comic book shows outside Netflix Marvel stuff) with about the same level of absurdity and melodrama.

Who knows? Maybe this Ranger movie will change shit. No, I don't know anything about it other than they look more Metal Hero than Sentai now...

Which is always the real unfortunate part. It would be (slightly) less of a problem that people's minds immediately go "oh you mean like Power Rangers" if that didn't inevitably mean "oh you mean season 1 MMPR", which is so over-the-top and formulaic it may as well be a parody of itself.

...I swear I like PR too! Even season 1!

Oh no doubt. Even with stuff like Ghost the writing has a lot more complexity to it than the average Sentai. One's not better than the other or anything but they're very different shows. Comparing them gets apples and oranges very quickly.

Honestly, just picture, like, Amazons, but in English. Not dubbed I mean, but literally a show basically identical to Amazons made specifically for an English-speaking audience. It'd blow people's minds! Put it on HBO and give it a decent advertising budget. It might not be a mega-hit but I can't imagine it not finding an audience really quickly. The only reason people don't know they want this stuff is because it isn't right in front of them.

Of course, I'm not a marketer or whatever, so what do I know.

Ohhh, you mean an adaptation! Yeah, I'm into that. Amazons - junkyard episode notwithstanding (that episode is facepalm material) - done for an English speaking demographic would be a hit - no doubt about it. Not huge, it would be a little too weird for many, but definitely popular enough to get renewed and make further Rider shows possible.

An aside: I can't wait for Season 2!

I think Kamen Rider will do well in the US if they do a original TV show with no Japanese footage. It would need a decent size budget, but I think it can work. With Amazons plan to be release in Amazon Prime US, maybe it can boost interest in the franchise outside the US. With a original TV series in the US, they can have a bigger budget and prove that not all henshin heroes are PR rip offs.

Well Masked Rider and Dragon Knight pretty much tanked. Toei probably feels like there is not much of a market for Kamen Rider outside of Asia. With Super Sentai, it was used for Power Rangers and there was a decent market for it to be release on DVD.

Unlike Toku, anime always been popular before we had DBZ in 1996 and Pokemon in 1998. People seem to forget the days of Streamline Pictures, Central Park Media, Pioneer and Manga Entertainment. The biggest issue with Japanese live action shows and movies is that I notice most people don't like to watch foreign movies. You have people that don't like reading sub titles and I have seen people that don't like watching actors that are not from the United States.

Which Kamen Rider that is likely to be Main Focus for Kamen Rider Ghost V-Cinema?

Hikaru Ohsawa AKA Akari Tsukimura did a Weekly Playboy Magazine Interview and she was teasing about Kamen Rider Ghost V-Cinema being planned which I assumed to be released for April.

My bet will be Makoto Fukami/Specter since Alain/Necrom got his own mini-series. Do you think Makoto will be MAIN focus for Kamen Rider Ghost V-Cinema?

I kindly enjoy the concept of Kamen Rider's V-Cinema because it can also explore some of stuffs that didn't get explore for the show like Who was Lock Dealer Sid and Yoko Minato's past life before getting involved with Yggdrasil. I wonder if Kamen Rider Ghost V-Cinema might explore the stuff that didn't get explore on the show?

Huh, really? I can vaguely understand what you might mean by that but I don't remember it being bad at all.

Which is kind of the problem, if I can speak a little more realistically for a second. Nobody is going to want to put the cash down to fund a show like that when it's an unproven concept. 'Tis the reality of TV being a business, sadly.

Hey, I didn't say it was an unjustified lack of interest.

My money's on a combo Specter/Necrom double-bill.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if Kamen Rider Onari somehow becomes a thing.

I hope Amazons does well enough in the west and Toei sees enough of an interest to at least have Kamen Rider DVDs and Blu-rays in the west. It'll take baby steps to get Kamen Rider to a level of interest to start selling them though. Look at Gundam, it took a long time for them to starting releasing DVDs in the states again.

I would love to see a US version of Kamen Rider Black as an hour-long weekly sci-fi adventure show. Have the main character wander around, meeting new people and fighting Gorgom every week. Something like a more martial artsy version of the old Incredible Hulk show from the 70s.

Man, this is why I usually stay out of aimless speculation. It's all a lot of fun until the crushing realization hits that none of the awesome hypotheticals you're thinking up will ever happen.

I would sooo watch that, too...

Okay, I'm 45, a life long nerd and can tell you that your use of the word "always" is so fast and loose it just about skidded off your post and crashed into the "MORE NEW POSTS" box! Anime and manga were a popular thing among hardcore nerds until the late 80's when shows like Voltron, Tranzor Z, Thundercats and Silverhawks (American funded, Japanese designed) made the American style of action cartoon quaint and, soon enough, extinct.

But it still wasn't until fairly recently (late 90's / 2000's) that genuine anime and, to a lesser extent, manga became mainstream. Granted, not knowing your age, that very well may be the entirety of your "always" but, in truth, that wasn't always the case. I remember kids complaining that manga and anime looked "cartoony" and that "everyone looks like a girl" right up until Fist of the North Star, AKIRA, DBZ and hentai (Urotsukodoji, mostly) made people get over that stuff.

So non-PRangers tokusatsu just needs it's DBZ.

Some things about it are awesome, like the reason they go there in the first place is just about genius, but...

Nozama Peston Service leave Nozomi and Mamoru in the main junkyard where the killer, not an Amazon but just a plain ol' psycho, beats the living piss out of them, with the plan the gut them both. The team swoop in for the save but, even though this guy has clearly killed numerous people and was about to kill their teammates, NPS decide "no" because the killer is a human, not an Amazon, so that's out of their job description. What? To make matters even more stupefying - they just leave! No anonymous calls to the police, no vigilante justice, just "our bad, thought you weren't human - happy hunting, bro!". Of course, the police rarely appear, if ever, in Amazons so... maybe there aren't any?

Despite this, I still love the show. I like what they've set up, it's pretty crazy: Kamen Rider Omega, the "hero" is fighting for the Amazons, while Kamen Rider Alpha, the "villain" fights for humanity. It's gonna be good!

I think the only other viable option to making a western Kamen Rider is filming them at the same time at the same locations so the footage would line up, at least for the action scenes. If I were to pick one series from the past few years to use the costumes/theme of it would either be Wizard or Drive. The theme of Gaim is just too weird to start out on and Ghost is too eastern with it's selection of historical figures.

As for Dragon Knight, I've never seen it but I feel it's main problem was it was just on a strange channel for a kids show. I had honestly never heard of "The CW4Kids" before I got into Kamen Rider nor had I ever seen any toys for it. It really wasn't set up to succeed.

Problem is that Specter doesn't do much, and Necrom already got a show. Maybe Dark Ghost?

It would seem that using the Power Rangers model of recycling action footage, if Masked Rider and Dragon Knight are to be believed, won't work for Kamen Rider. So don't even think about that as an issue.

We're saying just do an entirely American adaptation of a Kamen Rider script / concept (a common enough practice, see the American version of the British original The Office). Or what Switchblade is suggesting, use the bones of a Kamen Rider series (in his, Black) and put it into a format that is 'easy to understand' (wandering hero). But have it produced, top to bottom, stateside.

An aside: even as a seven year old, I found the Incredible Hulk to be repetitive and boring. You can only watch the Hulk beat up corrupt construction workers or hired thugs so many times!

How exactly did it not work for Dragon Knight? I remember Sting/Raia having the same death and Onyx having Ryuga's scenes in the dream sequence, but those weren't really bad at all

Yeah, but those are the exception to the rule, aren't they? Ultimately, while it's cheaper to recycle, it sacrifices tonal continuity. That doesn't matter for Power Rangers because your average pre-teen doesn't care about production values - teens / young adults, who are generally angst ridden, do. Plus, recycling forces certain narratives which could hamper a writer.

I used to work in TV , folks (advertising - awful, awful stuff) - I know this stuff!

As someone who's doing business studies, I didn't know about this TV stuff

I love the idea of something like that, using Western actors and original story in the same setting, but logistically that would probably be a nightmare. Having to get the actors and writers and other talent to Japan, having to film the same scenes twice(meaning the locations they film are closed own more often/longer, and possibly charging more), the western actors being out of place in Japan.

I think the preferable way to make a Rider show is to have Toei to ship off the props/costumes to a western studio and they make all original footage and use none of the stuff from the original.

But if we are trying to get the reputation of Rider up, would it be a kids show on Nick or something? Or would it be on more mainstream channels/online platforms? If it's the latter, using my idea of reusing props wouldn't work, because modern Rider has such a flashy kid targeted design that not a lot of people would take it seriously.

How would you even get the reputation of KR up? It's still, at the end of the day, a kids show. You're gonna miss your target demo if you aim to air it on Fox or whatever...

I mean
Look at your avi
Not like 'kids show' stopped shows having fans outside the target demo before

In alk seriousness, if they make an adaptation of Kabuto, they need to bring his original actor back, as he speaks fluent English

That's an inverse of the situation. Mine is a kid's show with a periphery demographic that comes in. Taking a kid's show and tossing it on a network that doesn't commonly air kid's shows (Probably at best airing family comedies) in hopes of disassociating itself with Power Rangers and Nick wouldn't be the right way to go about it.

In that case, you're looking at it at the wrong perspective. The studio would have to look for something like CW I guess as 'teens/young adults' fit in their demograph due to Arrowverse

As it stands, it would have to be on Netflix / Hulu / Amazon. I'd argue that whether Kamen Rider is a kid's show or not depends on the season - I'd say Ryuki, Blade and Hibiki skew toward a YA audience, where Ghost and Fourze are genuine kid's shows. Most feel "All Ages" - like Dr. Who. I've brought Dr. Who up a few times recently, I really feel like KR is a lot like Dr. Who and could have a similar appeal. Perhaps that's how I should explain it to potential viewers.

It really is a great comparison, though. Not only does it work on the meta level of "long-running show that changes up its protagonist a bunch that went away for a while and came back in a slightly different and arguably more popular form", but the tones really are close a lot of the time.

Doctor Who is a show that can expect you to chuckle at something ridiculous one moment and then expect you to take it seriously the next. Sometimes it even expects both at the same time. It's a very unique sort of style and I think that's why it's occasionally hard for people to get into.

Kamen Rider is very much the same way. Moments like the penultimate episode of Gaim come to mind, where (this really isn't a spoiler but I think it'll be a fun surprise if you haven't seen the show) Kouta takes a big hit and recoils dramatically while CG "fruit energy" flies out of the wound. Or Necrom's finishing attack as Sanzou that first gets used during a really tense moment.

Personally I think it's too late to not have Kamen Rider associated with Power Rangers to westerners simply because PR has been a part of mainstream pop culture in America for over 20 years.

The best chance for Rider to have been adapted as a more "mature" alternative to PR would have been mid-late 90s/early 2000s in my opinion.

Debatably it's already had it's DBZ: Godzilla

I would disagree. Godzilla was never a big hit in the west. It was successful, but it was never the gateway for Toku that DBZ basically was for anime.

Yeah. The mainstream Godzilla movies here are different from their original form so even that isn't really the same.

Man, my casual mention of Toei not caring about bringing Kamen Rider overseas really turned into quite the conversation. :o

Anyway, Toku has its DBZ. It's called Power Rangers. Stereotyping has always been a problem for Anime too. After Speed Racer, it was bad dubbing, after DBZ it was mindless action and people grunting for 22 minute chunks. The more things change, you know?

Remember when RPM had its underground popularity? I feel like if Gaim or maybe Blade came over that would happen. "That really good knockoff Power Rangers that's like an anime!"

I just wanna point out:

Buuut

You're both probably right on the Power Rangers point. It's been around for going on a quarter century, multiple generations were weened on it - there's no getting around it - the franchise IS the definition of henshin heroes / tokusatsu in America.


I should have used the term "henshin heroes" - they're not interchangeable, though we often treat them as so.

In our little bubble of toku fandom, we fail to take into account how off-putting mainstream audiences find tokusatsu aesthetics. The elements we find charming are almost universally seen as cheap, silly, and garish to people with no love for the medium.

We may be enamored by rubber-suited monsters whose mouths don't move when they talk, heroes who fight with plastic toy weapons, battles that take place in exterior locations completely devoid of extras, editing that employs rapid and unexplained location changes, miniature sets made of cardboard, and CGI straight out of a cable show from the 90s... but the average viewer, who has no familiarity with or affinity for the budgetary shortcuts this medium utilizes, sees all of the elements we cherish as flaws.

This aesthetic distaste, paired the amount of Japanese cultural knowledge required to decipher what's going on in these stories, creates a nigh impenetrable membrane around tokusatsu that repels casual, mainstream, non-Japanese, adult viewers.

For these reasons, I don't think Toei/Tsuburaya-style tokusatsu can ever rise beyond its status as a niche obsession in the States. That niche may have a higher occupancy threshold than we see now, but it's my belief that this style of tokusatsu will never be mainstream in America, certainly not enough to justify placement on a major broadcast or cable network.

Hey do you guys think a Kamen Rider series in the same vein as Ultraman Nexus work?

I mean like the main rider's powers passed between multiple characters over the course of the show.

So, Faiz?

Faiz in space. Make it Toei.