[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The parts of this episode that let that idea play out, that really allow Takumi to feel upended by his new isolation, it still works amazingly well.

Regarding plot vs characters, personally, I think either is okay, if both can create a proper story for the series, and not play the series out in a purely formulaic way (watching the exact same thing over and over, not even a little difference too). OK then, for some reason Murakami still gives Takumi a chance, like saying Takumi has to shed his, while he's easily the most rebellious Lucky Clover "member". even more than Kusaka and Sawada. Kageyama and Takuma (whose name is just Takumi but replace i with a! And both became Faiz!) obviously won't be accepting, but I wonder which criteria for Lucky Clover that they will accept, admittedly yeah every Lucky Clover criteria shown up so far are probelmatic against them while Murakami is more tolerant. And for the latest episode, Mari and Keitaro being put in spotlight like that, that'd probably sum up Takumi's greatest fear of connecting with people that he'd be detrimental to them. Yuji just assumes here that Takumi wants to kill himself because of his fear of his Orphnoch form, so that's true this time, all of him going to Lucky Clover and carrying out their mission is meant for that? Takumi would still likely act the same that he attacks without explaining the reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It’s just, that’s not really the episode that got made? Hoo boy, there’s a whole bunch of setup for the final run of the series shoved into this episode, and it is inelegant.

O̶r̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶R̶y̶u̶s̶e̶i̶ ̶S̶c̶h̶o̶o̶l̶ ̶s̶t̶u̶d̶e̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶b̶e̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶t̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶s̶l̶a̶u̶g̶h̶t̶e̶r̶e̶d̶ ̶e̶n̶ ̶m̶a̶s̶s̶e̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶W̶o̶l̶f̶ ̶O̶r̶p̶h̶n̶o̶c̶h̶?̶ ̶O̶h̶ ̶w̶a̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶r̶e̶a̶d̶y̶ ̶r̶e̶g̶u̶l̶a̶r̶l̶y̶ ̶k̶i̶l̶l̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶s̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶i̶m̶i̶l̶a̶r̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶g̶e̶r̶ ̶s̶c̶a̶l̶e̶.̶ Yeah, Kusaka refusing to tell Mari, while if Kusaka forces Mari to do so, she tells him (but still, this is in-character for Kusaka, complain to the character instead of the writing for this!). For some reason here, Kusaka just consoles Mari here instead of reaffirming that Takumi is rotten. And for Kusaka losing his mind, was he a sane person to begin with? Kusaka is not only a PTSD victim, but he also suffers from a high-functioning mixed personality disorder with both antisocial and borderline traits. So for Takumi in the flashback (and Kusaka's narrating, but I mean, Lucky Clover also showed Wolf Orphnoch slaughtering others and Takumi is that type of Orphnoch), bringing it up again from previous reply, that'd mean mystery genre isn't for you right? Otherwise, what I can say for Takumi flashback, it's not looking good for the others, Kusaka can utilize that even more effectively to give Takumi even more of bad reputation by revealing that Wolf Orphnoch slaughtered innocents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Speaking of waiting for more information, we get another check-in with Kaido, whose plot with the kid he saved inches forward.

Yeah, he does Ichigo pose, and to think Kaido was Faiz, I only wish he was still a Rider wielder (the gear's in Yuji's hand, can have Kaido borrow it from him temporarily or something) so that the Rider pose would totally make sense. Dunno if Kaido was acting tsundere towards Teruo, but with Teruo being a total ungrateful brat, Kaido's disdain towards him is even more justified (justifaiz). Also this kid is far more important than you think. I wonder why Keitaro wasn't reported at all, Kaido indirectly rescued Teruo by rescuing Keitaro (who is holding Teruo) who's collapsing from the burn. Even if Keitaro was seen as the burn victim, he's still not heard anywhere, just Kaido saving a kid. Also you saying Kaido has better resistance, would that mean Orphnoch is far stronger overall than ordinary humans even in human form? And the actual reason why Takumi got "protagonist strength" by fighting off Kaido in episode 6 in human form?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

That sort of stuff wouldn’t bother me if this episode had spent more time on Takumi’s story, or even Kusaka’s story. (It sure as shit didn’t bother me last episode!) But this one has time for all these subplots with background characters, but there’s so many regulars we barely see. Even Keitaro’s just in one small scene. Maybe he’d do better with the blonde hair again?

Like you said, this episode is more plot-driven, so they're pushing those that are plot relevant first? Those you mentioned except for Kitazaki, are involved in the "soap opera" (daily life) part of the series, Yuka and Keitaro are involved in love triangles with Kaido and Mari too (and those 2 aren't about their love problems here). Also Keitaro dying his hair blonde was about him moving on from love... I mean why's he even moving on? He hasn't talked to Yuka about their love again (and even if they do, even if Yuka's probably feeling for Kaido for real, she'd probably still proclaim her love to Keitaro too, trying to have both of them, being a pleaser). Also the fourth member of the group? Hasn't it been like, the plot of Lucky Clover up until now? There are no fourth member, they're looking for them, with Murakami giving others more chance and Kageyama & Takuma being hostile to the "new kid", but every single of the 4th member being rebellious or not meeting their criteria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Wow, weird. I definitely don't feel that way!

I wonder that you think of this as a weird, but when I talk about people probably (just probably) can think of Kaido as inconsistent, you agreed with that. The thing is people also can watch fiction as escapism with all the powerful badass characters doing awesome things so they can feel the badassness by proxy. To see Mihara denying that, either it would deny their wish of watching this or thinking it's stupid for someone to be denied power in a dangerous hostile world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Yeah, I think the show avoids some of the pitfalls of the trope by a) having Mari find out almost immediately and get mad at Keitaro and Kusaka for hiding it from her; and b) making her reaction less about Takumi being an Orphnoch and more about him being the Orphnoch that traumatized her. There's a specificity to it that overcomes a lot of the negatives for me.

What I talk about was people (either in-universe, or out of universe) that pushes the trope of girl can't know the truth, because they fear about the girl being totally traumatized and broken over it, even if the reaction is justified (justifaiz). They want the girl to remain calm and collected, keeping a grip on herself in the face of the truth, to make them able to allow giving that to the girl. And Mari knowing it, has the exact same reaction they fear about, which could make those people push forward the girl can't know the truth even more (Mari lashing out at Kusaka aside, Kusaka does have that mindset, and actually gets mad at Takumi for letting her know the truth).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I want to say that Keitaro's problem isn't so much that he's trying to forget that Takumi is an Orphnoch (that was the previous episode), but that he's trying to act like it doesn't matter to him. But it clearly does matter.

Well, for starter, Takumi being an Orphnoch is the very reason that he can be Faiz in the first place, which carries Keitaro's wishes and can save him and Mari at times. I guess it doesn't matter to him if Takumi's attitude doesn't change that much that he also has already experienced his Orphnoch perks all this time as Faiz? In this series, being a Rider and being a monster is always mutual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Two different stories!

Feel hilarious that this discussion we just had... is brought up on episode 37, where Kusaka tried to push the same thing on Team Faiz regarding Takumi, bringing out Sawada who betrayed the Team Faiz' trust. I understand what you're talking about here though; Sawada's humanity is only a delusional optimism, while Takumi's humanity has been proven, albeit shaken by the Lucky Clover getting the recording of Wolf Orphnoch slaughtering Ryusei alumnis. And also others are trying to reach out Sawada who's closed off, but here Takumi's the one trying to reach out others with others closed off (though I don't really feel like others are closed off, except Mari at first, they're just shaken but they acknowledge Takumi's humanity and importance to them).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It's probably more that Yuuji sees a kinship in Takumi that he didn't before. They were friends who had a falling out, but now they have a shared experience. Yuuji, I think, is very excited to have that commonality with Takumi, and that's why he tells the others so quickly. This is a very big deal for Yuuji!

I would probably think if Yuji still sees Takumi as rotten manipulator Kusaka made him up to be, he would think it made sense for Takumi to be hidden evil that he's an Orphnoch.