[FreshToku]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BagJo

Like you wouldn't want to actually be a Rider in Faiz? I definitely get that. I wouldn't want to be one in Blade either, or Ryuki actually. Hell, I wouldn't want to be a Rider in a lot of Rider shows honestly. I think "carrying the weight" of being a Rider in a lot of these stories is pretty dang heavy.

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

It's crazy how often watching Kamen Rider makes being a Rider look awesome and a burden at the same time. Imagine yourself in this hypothesis. Firstly, you would need to die or be injected with mutagen in your heart to revive as an Orphenoch which is an unlikely event. If successful, Smart Brain would be hunting you down to kill you. By chance, you find the Faiz Gear which you can use to fight back. So, you're Faiz and that seems pretty cool at first, but now you're a priority target and if that's not bad enough, it's taxing on your body. At least Faiz is less dangerous than the other Gears. It would probably be the least of your worries.

Ryuki having that episode dedicated to scaring that kid might have been more on-point than I thought!

I think if I got the option, I'd probably go with being a Rider on Ex-Aid. You work a well-paying medical job while also playing video games at the same time! Granted, you and someone else will die if you're not good enough, but I'm pretty confident in my Mario skills.

[Fish Sandwich]

Okay, first off, this I've just gotta say this: Die, I'm starting to feel like you've gotten really good at this whole process over time. Maybe it's just that Faiz leaves you with a lot to talk about or something, but episode write-ups like that are A+ work in their own right. You are making an astonishingly good case for how you see this show right now.

Also, changing the format so that it didn't require everything to be in huge, unbroken paragraphs was definitely a smart move looking back, huh? So many words!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

But there’s this shot of Takumi, from Mari’s perspective on the ground. He’s trying to reach out, to show her that he’s still her friend. But he’s backlit by the moonlight. He’s all silhouette, no expression. His shape is distorted by shadows; it’s foreboding, monstrous. He can’t get her to see him as her friend anymore.

*insert clever way of pointing out that since Rider episodes are largely written and filmed in pairs, this is still Ishida doing what he does here.*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I was a little surprised at how great Yuuji was at being Faiz. Like, he got that Gear figured out fast. Maybe being Faiz is just way easier than Takumi makes it look?

Well, Yuuji does have tons of experience being on the receiving end of the Faiz Gear. I think he probably got the basics of "hit people and then stick a laser pointer on your leg" figured out somewhere around the time he was deflecting Rider Kicks? Although I guess stunts like that point right back to him maybe secretly kinda being a way better fighter than Takumi.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Okay, first off, this I've just gotta say this: Die, I'm starting to feel like you've gotten really good at this whole process over time. Maybe it's just that Faiz leaves you with a lot to talk about or something, but episode write-ups like that are A+ work in their own right. You are making an astonishingly good case for how you see this show right now.

Aw, thanks! I don't know if you had to say it, but I really appreciate that you did. Coming from someone who's pretty much the highwater mark for writing about Kamen Rider around these parts, that's incredibly flattering.

I don't know if it's Faiz specifically, but I really enjoy emotionally dense episodes like this one, both as a viewer and as someone writing about their viewing experience. Give or take a Ryuki episode that had a hundred ways in and no ways out, they're the most fun episodes to talk about. (Even that Ryuki one got to be fun in its own neuroses-inducing way!) Like, I really enjoyed trying to talk about the Build episodes with the Hazard Trigger. When it's all emotions driving it? That's my stuff.

Plot-heavy episodes, honestly, not always that fun to talk about. So much of what makes a plot work isn't in the details, it's in the overview, the arc. Talking about one segment in a long-form plotline, it's like trying to delve into one sentence in a paragraph. Sometimes it's a really good sentence! It might use some neat words! But sometimes, it's just getting you from the previous sentence to the next.

Episodes like 36 for Faiz, though, that's where it feels like you're having a discussion with the writer. The machinations are pushed to the side, and now it's time to talk about the heart of the story. Who are these characters. How do they feel. What would it take to break them. These types of episodes, they're so dense, like I said. So many details to obsess over. They are, honestly, so fun to try and talk about. I'm glad I'm doing them justice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

*insert clever way of pointing out that since Rider episodes are largely written and filmed in pairs, this is still Ishida doing what he does here.*

I sort-of figured, but thanks for the confirmation! Also, man, I was so nervous that Translation Cop was going to show and tell me that, actually, that scene where Takumi is talking to Yuuji got horribly mistranslated, it's all about how Takumi blames his friends and hopes they die in an explosion. Finding that out would've been such a bummer, you know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Well, Yuuji does have tons of experience being on the receiving end of the Faiz Gear. I think he probably got the basics of "hit people and then stick a laser pointer on your leg" figured out somewhere around the time he was deflecting Rider Kicks? Although I guess stunts like that point right back to him maybe secretly kinda being a way better fighter than Takumi.

Structurally, that fight needed to be over fast so that the show could really let that cliffhanger breathe. But, I don't know, it would've been fun to see Yuuji, like, put the Faiz Pointer on upside-down at first. Tonally inconsistent, and a distraction from what the story is trying to do, but still fun!

[DreadBringer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Do... do people get frustrated by Mihara wanting to quit?! That's the best part of the show!

Unfortunately yes. For all the Faiz hate, he got it the worst. It's frustrating to them about his cowardice, indecision, reluctance, that they think it's stupid for him to reject a chance for being strong and safe especially if Orphnochs are trying to kill. Also they think he doesn't deserve to be Delta because of how unskilled in a fight he is; that Delta's power should be used by someone more deserving.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Perfect episode? Maybe the perfect episode.

Everything (in-universe) is ruined in this episode because of the broken status quo. Total broken home.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Nearly every scene had something in it that broke my heart.

For The Girl Can't Know The Truth, while others are at fault for this... what do you expect for Kusaka? I think for Kusaka employing this trope, it's in his character. This could be... just another one of unlikable qualities put in Kusaka! (he does treat her inappropriately after all) But unfortunately, while this trope isn't a fun one (not to me either), I feel like people are hoping for a subverting expectations that the said girl won't have reactions like here (no, and I feel like circumstances are ignored for this one), to prove that it's ok to feed any truth for the girl, don't underestimate them. But with her having reactions like this, just like what they feared, this would likely push the Girl Can't Know The Truth trope even more (with Kusaka being an in-universe example for this). Previously, I actually didn't know what's with Mari being totally scared for Takumi being an Orphnoch (like Keitaro pointed out, he protected her with it)... but this episode answered it with Takumi, not merely being an Orphnoch, but also the very Orphnoch that caused the doom in Ryusei reunion. For Takumi, with his fear is him being destructive to other people, I guess with the imagining in the park, he's finally proven himself wrong that he can be benefical to others like this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Shows like this, they can make acceptance seem easy. Believe in your friends. Support those you love. But, man, that shit can be hard. Human beings are messy, contradictory.

Keitaro only wants to forget about Takkun being an Orphnoch and not only Mari that wasn't told, but everyone else as well, but nah, Takumi's deal to Smart Brain was publicly revealing that he's an Orphnoch so it's for naught..... Keitaro is a victim of Can't Know The Truth as well then? He knows Takumi is an Orphnoch, but he doesn't know about his worse state about being publicly known that Takumi won't tell him. Also with you talking about acceptance like this, "believe in your friends", would this be related to Sawada part before? Where like Kusaka points out, there are being reckless in your sympathy. Keitaro claiming that Takumi transformed to save Mari could be attributed to the part where Sawada "saved" Mari as well.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Best goddamn endings on this show, you guys.

Yuji just tells his trio outright that Takumi is an Orphnoch... in contrast to his interactions with Takumi before. I guess Keitaro has restored Yuji's full faith to Takumi right? And now the one he's suspicious to was Kusaka. Yuji becoming Faiz cements his position as the deuteragonist of the show, even if the secondary Rider is Kusaka. Also now I wonder what's the deal with Takumi's past! It's informed that he gained Orphnoch from an accident, apparently that Takumi killed the Ryusei reunion, and he's aware all this time that he's an Orphnoch, that he tried to deny with becoming Faiz. Also with him apparently carrying Lucky Clover's mission (one of the things that make Sawada obviously evil was him joining Lucky Clover you said? see Takumi here).

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

A heavy, beautiful episode, this time. But not without the usual gutter charms of horrible people being horrible, aka Oh My God Kusaka.

Unfortunately, I feel like there are probably people who prefer everyone to act like Kusaka like this in face of traumatic events like this, with the argument being "it's already happened, suck it up", "being a crybaby wouldn't change what happened" or something, claiming it's strong to act like Kusaka in face like this. So to be strong is to be psychopathic? Smh.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I was so nervous that Translation Cop was going to show and tell me that, actually, that scene where Takumi is talking to Yuuji got horribly mistranslated, it's all about how Takumi blames his friends and hopes they die in an explosion. Finding that out would've been such a bummer, you know?

Fortunately, these past few, insanely critical episodes of the series have been relatively good about that kind of thing. Though there are minor mistakes here or there I've caught that I don't really feel the need to actively bring up. Takumi telling Yuuji that "we" fight to negate "our" true forms in that conversation, for example. Very obviously wrong, but I figure, like, you probably know Takumi is still talking about just himself there without me telling you, because the conversation on the whole is clearly about that. This far in, I guess I'm assuming you've adjusted to how difficult some of TV-N's lines can be to parse anyway.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I don’t know if it’s Faiz specifically, but I really enjoy emotionally dense episodes like this one, both as a viewer and as someone writing about their viewing experience. Give or take a Ryuki episode that had a hundred ways in and no ways out, they’re the most fun episodes to talk about. (Even that Ryuki one got to be fun in its own neuroses-inducing way!) Like, I really enjoyed trying to talk about the Build episodes with the Hazard Trigger. When it’s all emotions driving it? That’s my stuff.

Plot-heavy episodes, honestly, not always that fun to talk about. So much of what makes a plot work isn’t in the details, it’s in the overview, the arc. Talking about one segment in a long-form plotline, it’s like trying to delve into one sentence in a paragraph. Sometimes it’s a really good sentence! It might use some neat words! But sometimes, it’s just getting you from the previous sentence to the next.

Episodes like 36 for Faiz, though, that’s where it feels like you’re having a discussion with the writer. The machinations are pushed to the side, and now it’s time to talk about the heart of the story. Who are these characters. How do they feel. What would it take to break them. These types of episodes, they’re so dense, like I said. So many details to obsess over. They are, honestly, so fun to try and talk about. I’m glad I’m doing them justice!

Yeah, I know what you mean. You could have an awesome plot in theory but it's meaningless if you don't get to see how it affects the characters and more importantly, you need to care about them. Generally, I think this show does an excellent job of making the main characters feel complex and dynamic and I appreciate how the emotions of the disbanded Team Faiz is at the center of this plot, I think it needed to be about them and how they're dealing with this.

I guess this is why you had so much to say about the Takumi reveal. I mean, I expected you to have a lot to say since it's a pretty big deal, but the way it changes everything is what makes it important. The status quo has been destroyed and the characters don't know how to move forward. Smart Brain are now chasing Takumi like a gang of loan sharks (which is ironic since Faiz has a shark motif), looking to collect on his deal with Murakami. Takumi's in a difficult position. He owes them, but what they want, he can't do it. He can't join Lucky Clover if it means being an enemy to humans. Kusaka claims to owe Takumi but this is the second time that Takumi has got Kusaka out of a bad situation after saving him from Smart Brain and it doesn't look like Kusaka intends to repay him.

In addition to the echoes of Takumi that Mari and Keitarou saw, the cat licking Mari could've been a metaphorical reminder of him, due to being a nekojita.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Yuji just tells his trio outright that Takumi is an Orphnoch... in contrast to his interactions with Takumi before. I guess Keitaro has restored Yuji's full faith to Takumi right? And now the one he's suspicious to was Kusaka. Yuji becoming Faiz cements his position as the deuteragonist of the show, even if the secondary Rider is Kusaka. Also now I wonder what's the deal with Takumi's past! It's informed that he gained Orphnoch from an accident, apparently that Takumi killed the Ryusei reunion, and he's aware all this time that he's an Orphnoch, that he tried to deny with becoming Faiz. Also with him apparently carrying Lucky Clover's mission (one of the things that make Sawada obviously evil was him joining Lucky Clover you said? see Takumi here).

Izumi originally auditioned for the role of Takumi and even though Handa was chosen instead, it's cool that he still got to be Faiz part-time. Kiba seems to be the only person other than Takumi who shows expertise at using Faiz. Takumi made a good choice for his successor but Kiba assures him that he will become Faiz again someday.

If Takumi didn't seem aware that he was an Orphenoch, it's probably that he was trying to hide it from himself ever since whatever happened at that reunion. He's a guy who prefers to run from his problems rather than confront them so it makes sense that he wouldn't bring it up until Mari's life depended on it. There's definitely a lot of mystery surrounding his involvement in the reunion. But I've already said too much yesterday.

[Actar]

Not sure if anyone touched on this yet, but my two cents on Mihara Delta: It's established earlier on that most normal people (aside from perhaps other Belt users/already powerful Orphnochs) get poisoned by and addicted to using the Delta Belt. It's only people like Saya and Mihara who don't have a lust for power that are able to use Delta without suffering any ill effects. However, Mihara is just not a good fighter, so while he's able to use Delta, it can never function to its fullest potential.

While I personally find it sad that Delta never lived up to its initial bad-assery (as I love that belt and suit design), I have to admit that it's rather brilliantly ironic/poetic - that the most powerful belt can only be used by the weakest users. Not to mention, it's a great way to nerf Delta and put him on the same level as the other Riders.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Unfortunately yes. For all the Faiz hate, he got it the worst. It's frustrating to them about his cowardice, indecision, reluctance, that they think it's stupid for him to reject a chance for being strong and safe especially if Orphnochs are trying to kill. Also they think he doesn't deserve to be Delta because of how unskilled in a fight he is; that Delta's power should be used by someone more deserving.

Wow, weird. I definitely don't feel that way!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

For The Girl Can't Know The Truth, while others are at fault for this... what do you expect for Kusaka? I think for Kusaka employing this trope, it's in his character. This could be... just another one of unlikable qualities put in Kusaka! (he does treat her inappropriately after all) But unfortunately, while this trope isn't a fun one (not to me either), I feel like people are hoping for a subverting expectations that the said girl won't have reactions like here (no, and I feel like circumstances are ignored for this one), to prove that it's ok to feed any truth for the girl, don't underestimate them. But with her having reactions like this, just like what they feared, this would likely push the Girl Can't Know The Truth trope even more (with Kusaka being an in-universe example for this).

Yeah, I think the show avoids some of the pitfalls of the trope by a) having Mari find out almost immediately and get mad at Keitaro and Kusaka for hiding it from her; and b) making her reaction less about Takumi being an Orphnoch and more about him being the Orphnoch that traumatized her. There's a specificity to it that overcomes a lot of the negatives for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Keitaro only wants to forget about Takkun being an Orphnoch and not only Mari that wasn't told, but everyone else as well, but nah, Takumi's deal to Smart Brain was publicly revealing that he's an Orphnoch so it's for naught..... Keitaro is a victim of Can't Know The Truth as well then? He knows Takumi is an Orphnoch, but he doesn't know about his worse state about being publicly known that Takumi won't tell him.

I want to say that Keitaro's problem isn't so much that he's trying to forget that Takumi is an Orphnoch (that was the previous episode), but that he's trying to act like it doesn't matter to him. But it clearly does matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Also with you talking about acceptance like this, "believe in your friends", would this be related to Sawada part before? Where like Kusaka points out, there are being reckless in your sympathy. Keitaro claiming that Takumi transformed to save Mari could be attributed to the part where Sawada "saved" Mari as well.

It's two different things?

One of my favorite choices the show made in this episode is that the show flipped the roles of the characters. Usually, it's about Takumi being closed-off, being inflexible, and his friends trying to reach him. Here, he's open, he's trying to put them at ease. They're the ones who end up screwing this up, unable to articulate their emotional needs, unable to communicate with Takumi.

With Sawada, all of Mari's conception of him was projection. She wanted Sawada's reluctance to be about him looking for a way back to his humanity, and that was a mistake. Here, Takumi is doing everything he can to reach back to his friends and they're making him feel like a stranger. This story is about acceptance, and how hard it can be to live that. Sawada's story was about the ways our hopes for people can blind us to their shortcomings, how dangerous rose-colored glasses can be in Kamen Rider.

Two different stories!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Yuji just tells his trio outright that Takumi is an Orphnoch... in contrast to his interactions with Takumi before. I guess Keitaro has restored Yuji's full faith to Takumi right?

It's probably more that Yuuji sees a kinship in Takumi that he didn't before. They were friends who had a falling out, but now they have a shared experience. Yuuji, I think, is very excited to have that commonality with Takumi, and that's why he tells the others so quickly. This is a very big deal for Yuuji!

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

This far in, I guess I'm assuming you've adjusted to how difficult some of TV-N's lines can be to parse anyway.

It's maybe become a little like code-breaking? I'd never be able to do what you do, hearing the line and knowing it's wrong, but I can try and look at the whole scene and figure out what point the translator is trying to make.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Yeah, I know what you mean. You could have an awesome plot in theory but it's meaningless if you don't get to see how it affects the characters and more importantly, you need to care about them. Generally, I think this show does an excellent job of making the main characters feel complex and dynamic and I appreciate how the emotions of the disbanded Team Faiz is at the center of this plot, I think it needed to be about them and how they're dealing with this.

Yeah, it meant the world to me that their breakup, the lowest point, it's them in their living room. It's not in the middle of some battle or on a dramatically-lit stage, it's the place where they're most comfortable. But now it's poisoned, dangerous. It's not about monsters or villains, it's just people failing each other in the most common, human ways. It's all about how they're processing these developments, not What Happens Next.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Smart Brain are now chasing Takumi like a gang of loan sharks (which is ironic since Faiz has a shark motif), looking to collect on his deal with Murakami. Takumi's in a difficult position. He owes them, but what they want, he can't do it. He can't join Lucky Clover if it means being an enemy to humans. Kusaka claims to owe Takumi but this is the second time that Takumi has got Kusaka out of a bad situation after saving him from Smart Brain and it doesn't look like Kusaka intends to repay him.

Maybe I'm wrong on this one, but I feel like Murakami is a good enough manager to know what he can and can't get Takumi to do. Getting the Faiz belt back is within the range of Takumi's morality. I wouldn't expect Murakami to try and get Takumi to kill humans, but reclaiming belts and offing random Orphnochs is... it ain't a million miles from his average Tuesday?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

In addition to the echoes of Takumi that Mari and Keitarou saw, the cat licking Mari could've been a metaphorical reminder of him, due to being a nekojita.

Good catch!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Actar

Not sure if anyone touched on this yet, but my two cents on Mihara Delta: It's established earlier on that most normal people (aside from perhaps other Belt users/already powerful Orphnochs) get poisoned by and addicted to using the Delta Belt. It's only people like Saya and Mihara who don't have a lust for power that are able to use Delta without suffering any ill effects. However, Mihara is just not a good fighter, so while he's able to use Delta, it can never function to its fullest potential.

While I personally find it sad that Delta never lived up to its initial bad-assery (as I love that belt and suit design), I have to admit that it's rather brilliantly ironic/poetic - that the most powerful belt can only be used by the weakest users. Not to mention, it's a great way to nerf Delta and put him on the same level as the other Riders.

It's a fun inversion of the usual storyline of Proving Your Worthiness, to have Delta be used by someone who least wants it. It's a way of exploring the Terrible Burden trope in a way that I don't recall seeing before? It's also, honestly, such a relatable reaction to seeing every other Ryusei belt-wearer get killed or go crazy. You'd have to be out of your mind to be excited to be Delta!

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

You'd have to be out of your mind to be excited to be Delta!

Die, if the last couple dozen pages of this thread have proved anything, I think it's that you'd have to be more crazy to not be excited about being Delta.

Mihara's a sweet kid and all, but if he doesn't see the appeal of becoming basically the greatest, most amazing Rider who ever existed, I mean, can you blame the fans for not liking him?

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Die, if the last couple dozen pages of this thread have proved anything, I think it's that you'd have to be more crazy to not be excited about being Delta.

Mihara's a sweet kid and all, but if he doesn't see the appeal of becoming basically the greatest, most amazing Rider who ever existed, I mean, can you blame the fans for not liking him?

I heard Delta is so amazing that Shinji Kido told a small boy that he should definitely want to be a Kamen Rider like Delta. And Goro cried, he was so amazed!