[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

One of the things this episode tries to do is disentangle Kagami's impetuousness/recklessness/stupidity from his kindness/empathy/generosity. Like, he's not an idiot because of his strong moral code, he's an idiot with a strong moral code. Part of what he realizes in this episode is that his quirks and idiosyncrasies aren't necessarily bad things.

And, I don't know that his burning desire is to kill all Worms? In this one, he's the one character who is trying to salvage some humanity from the Worms actions.

Well, exactly, I wish those with strong moral code is viewed as what you said there, if they happened to be an idiot like Kagami (idiot with a strong moral code). A good number of audiences equates strong moral code as inherently being idiot, which causes them to look down on kindness/empathy/generosity as a whole (being kind = being stupid/naive or incompetent). For those audience they think nice means they always help and give everything to other people regardless of their condition which would make them easy to be exploited because they always lend a hand without concern about themselves. Which means to them that, they lack knowledge to know that people are only using them, or that they're stupid because they're letting themselves be used as tool. There's also already good number of media portrayals for this, like stock shonen heroes (which usually have strong sense of justice and scatterbrained), or cynical writers portraying those with boundless optimism as naive, or redeemed villains turned more incompetent at heroes' side, etc.

As by this audiences can encourage more pragmatic and unethical approach done by anti-heroes, I want for the negatives of that to be acknowledged too, like Sasword creating needless infighting to Kabuto because of him wanting to be the one to kill all Worms, potentially making the Worm escape instead. Or that when those characters efficiently used no-mercy approach and supposedly left no loose ends, but it turns out that he was mistaken, and later they found out too late that a loose end did show up later in an unexpected place to start a new round of conflict (for revenge, for instance). Based on their limited knowledge, he might not be able to foresee that such a loose end would have existed and arose to prominence.

Also, there's a clear shot of that Kagami's burning declaration. 2 of them:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I mean, I don't know if I want to make a rule about it or anything, but I think having a comedic subplot to cut away to (at least in the first half of 22) kept this thing from being too dark. As it is, the second half features Kagami being murdered by a boy he was trying to defend, so having some goofy-ass story about Tsurugi's birthday party was a pretty smart choice in the story. It still left room in the second-half of the episode to really drill into its themes and maintain a consistent atmosphere, so I'm good with it.

My point was about, if it's ok if the Kagami part has no comedic part about it. Like if for you, Kagami's part should have comedic bits into it to be (more) enjoyable. And again I think comedic isn't always lighthearted, for reasons I said before like comedic sociopathy, with the consequence like bad behaviors being justified or giving emotional cruelty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

I think that's a good compromize. I've heard a lot of people call Kagami the true protagonist but I don't think that's entirely fair on Tendo. It's just that the former expresses heroism though feelings and the latter expresses it through actions. Tendo feels as well but he doesn't need to express them, since he doesn't need to prove his heroism to people by talking like a hero, he knows he's a hero and he doesn't really care if anyone else understands him. If someone looks at the sun and says "are you the sun?", the sun doesn't need to answer, it doesn't need to prove itself. It's the sun and Tendo is a hero, whether people accept that or not.

Well, by definition, actions are what define the hero/villain archetype. Heroes are those that performed good deeds where their actions make positive change to the environment, where villains are those that performed bad deeds where their actions make negative change for the environment.

Of course, if you only evaluate by actions, any hero is the same; by that people like Shinji, Ren, Takumi, Hibiki, Tendou, Kagami, Yaguruma, Shinnosuke, Emu, Hiiro, Sento, Katsuragi after return, etc. are all the same; all use their powers to kill monsters, therefore saving people. But the one that distinguish them is their characterization, so things are more complicated than just that. Their characterization, like methods, motivations/goals, worldviews and personality all contribute to determine if they're anti or traditional (for hero and villain respectively). Anti-hero performs similarly heroic deeds that traditional heroes do, and usually had similar positive effect, but they have more negative traits compared to traditional heroes, like self-interest, selective care, love for violence, more unethical methods, etc.

Yeah, if you evaluate by actions, Tendou, and every traditional and anti-heroes are the same, that "Tendou doesn't need to prove his heroism to people by talking like a hero and doesn't really care if anyone else understands him", but if you delve into deeper, then Tendou is an anti-hero, that he wants to protect all lifeforms on Earth, but he had negative traits where he looks down on others, had a selective care towards Juka and Hiyori, can be pragmatic in his methods (like ransacking police station to uncover a Worm), and had fewer empathy to other problems beyond just saving other lives (like showing little empathy for hospitalizing Kageyama, he's a shithead but it's not known yet in that scene, or the only concern for Kagami in ep. 15 being that "his life is saved").

And also, from something I said before, other than the mindset that heroes are people who beat up bad guys, and the bad guys are bad because the heroes beat them up. In relation to beating up bad guys, some people can think that heroic deeds is as simplistic and limited to saving other's lives, and by that those that are saved have no right to behave in any manner other than being grateful; like objecting to something. While admittedly, someone who acts completely as a jerk to the savior is a complete dick move (and it'll infuriate me, and other audiences), but some people simplify heroic as only about saving other lives can be an uncaring view to it.

There are much more legitimate life problems other than just being saved or not, like Kagami feeling worthless after realizing that he's just a tool used by Kageyama. The view of heroic being only about saving lives can be callous towards anyone's problems as long as they live and not get killed, and while obviously saving others is a good thing to happen, performing heroic deeds is much more than only that, saving is only a part of it, but neglecting the other part isn't complete heroic deeds; what I said is aimed to someone who thinks characters like ideal heroes such as Eiji or anti-heroes such as Kaito as exactly similarly heroic because limiting hero definition as just anyone that can actually save people in need and treating what they do it for (money, recognition, etc.) or any character flaws as something that doesn’t matter, as long as they can save people. Which means that definition only takes "save people" into account and applies to my lecture here, as in KR mostly anyone on protagonistic side regularly kill monsters that attack humans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER KABUTO - EPISODE 23

First off, I love the fact that the secret area that ZECT is guarding is called Area X.

X Makes Anything Cool. A lot of people use it gratuitously on a name, product, model, etc. just so it has some sort of edge to it. It doesn't matter where, as long as there's an X. And it has to be a capital X. Lowercase x is just too puny to be cool. Just don't add 3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Like, the Shameful Ramen Cart. As bonkers as everyone suddenly working it seems, it honestly makes perfect sense?

I mean, even if Tsurugi and Jiiya are ditched by ZECT and Mishima, even if begging for still paychecks even if half or one thirds, but still, Tsurugi is a royalty not only having a job in ZECT, but he also runs a powerful corporation... so what's the deal with their non-ZECT businesses? And well yeah, Jiiya's most bankable skill is only cooking, where, as someone Tendou compares directly to himself, Tendou has talent in various field, although he's not interested in pursuing anything unless his belt activates. Tendou and Hiyori already ran a restaurant as one of Yumiko's staffes.. so them running a cart is a downgrade... (while Tendou claims it's an upgrade for Jiiya). Tsurugi's "honor demands Kabuto's death" is what he's about in his first scene, so the transition is completely expected? And for their duel, it seems that Tendou finally beats Tsurugi, clearly at the end, with Tendou disarming him and dual-wielding like Gatack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

The ostensible main plot for this episode (although, come on, the Shameful Ramen Cart is the clear winner in this one) is that various secrets are starting to come to the fore. Now that Gatack has arrived on the scene, the Worms are likely going to step up their activities, whatever their real plan might be. Meanwhile, Kagami being a Rider puts added pressure on Hiyori to deal with her feelings surrounding her parents’ deaths, and The Boy In The Belt.

And I would add a complete irony, where you mentioned that Hiyori's parents are the only ones she can trust, and hat they're frozen in time... while... Tendou and Kagami... the 2 that she acknowledged always helping her, that she wouldn't trust as the ones killing her parents based on their belts, are also... well... frozen in time.. literally as they can use Clock-Ups. Hiyori's lack of knowledge regarding supernatural elements in their world such as ZECT and Worms adds up to her trouble here, that it's the only reason that she had feelings that Tendou and Kagami are killers, because that, ZECT produces more than 1 belt, and as Kagami pointed out here, more that she missed is that his belt is produced recently, and that how Tendou got the belt is still a mystery. Also, for how Hiyori froze when when Worms attack her instead of screaming or pleading for help, there are many people who act like that throughout the franchise, and people that are like that (well, agenda for non-action ones) can be bashed by some audiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

A QUESTION

One of the things I noticed in this episode is how fitting the Sasword Zecter’s appearance is, in relation to Tsurugi’s personality. The other Zecters soar down out of the sky, effortlessly landing in the hands of the Riders. The Sasword Zecter bursts up out of the ground, destroying property in its goal of uniting with Tsurugi. That's so him, isn’t it? He needs the Zecter, so anything in its way… well, that stuff shouldn’t have been in the way to begin with, so he’s not to blame if it gets wrecked. It’s so on-point, visually, for Tsurugi. We also got a thing this episode where the Kabuto Zecter makes some food to communicate with Tendou, and I don’t think I need to point out how on-brand that is for Tendou. It got me thinking about how, if I had a Zecter, I’d probably keep finding it in bags of fast food. If you had a Zecter, what would it emerge from?

The part where Kabuto Zecter makes some food... that's, something where Zecters are shown to be able to behave more. Obviously anyone can't choose what Zecter they'd end up with, but for me the Zecter would emerge from closed storages.