[Androzani84]

As much as I see people saying that these specials feel like deleted scenes, I can confirm they in fact AREN’T. All of these shorts are written by one Kaori Kaneko, who wrote none of the episodes they’re meant to tie into. And based on behind the scenes reports, the disparity isn’t the episodes is not due to deleting anything. The episodes were simply rewritten after they were halfway filmed at the behest of the higher ups, meaning that they didn’t have time to rewrite and fefilm the completed scenes. It’s more likely the shorts are going off the original versions of the scripts than being made up of deleted scenes.

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

It?s more likely the shorts are going off the original versions of the scripts than being made up of deleted scenes.

But that still makes them deleted scenes, not literally, but in spirit. On the plus side, given that Saber's episode count not enough for it`s story (whereas most other rider shows have the opposite problem), any additional content is welcome.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER: SWORDSMEN CHRONICLES EPISODE 2 - ?AN EPISODE OF KAMEN RIDER KENZAN?

This is the one of these that most makes me go "man, I wish that was just in an actual episode", and thinking about it... it's probably because it made start feeling invested in Kenzan? All the rest of these, it's like a bonus chapter for characters I already loved, but this quick little exploration of Ren's whole... deal, does such a good job at setting him up for future storylines it ends up feeling way harder for me to just look at it as mere extra content. That's always kind of the struggle with a spinoff like this, I suppose. If it isn't some wildly disconnected original story (like Decade/Zi-O), or a fourth-wall demolishing comedy bit (Net Movies), being too good can paradoxically feel like more of a problem than being bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

The episodes were simply rewritten after they were halfway filmed at the behest of the higher ups, meaning that they didn?t have time to rewrite and fefilm the completed scenes. It?s more likely the shorts are going off the original versions of the scripts than being made up of deleted scenes.

I don't know about any of this stuff, but what I can say for sure, straight from the official website, is that the entirety of Swordsmen Chronicles was actually filmed alongside episodes 9 and 10 (hence why they're directed by Sakamoto), and Kaneko apparently only had proper scripts up to that point to work off of. Which is uh, about as wild a story as I'd expect from Saber's production early on. But yes, the bottom line is that, even if they might be criticized for feeling like it, the Swordsmen Chronicles episodes were not genuinely assembled from material left on the cutting room floor, in case anyone believes that.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

I don't think this is a spoiler, but I'll hide it just in case.

I forgot to specitfy "at this point" (ep. 9). A̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶g̶o̶t̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶a̶s̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶r̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶R̶i̶n̶a̶ ̶C̶h̶i̶n̶e̶n̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶4̶0̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶o̶l̶d̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶p̶o̶r̶t̶r̶a̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶e̶n̶i̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶m̶m̶u̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶a̶g̶i̶n̶g̶.̶

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER: SWORDSMEN CHRONICLES EPISODE 2 - “AN EPISODE OF KAMEN RIDER KENZAN”

A lot of that comes from how Kenzan is passed around a few different characters, and how his own inner works are exposed through his thoughts on others. We get to see how differently Ren acts around Ogami (attentive, not super thrilled to hang around with some old guy); Kento (definitely doesn’t have a crush on him); and, perfectly, Desast (thinks of him as an obsessive fan). Ren can’t really interrogate himself, but through his deference, jealousy, dismissiveness, and boastfulness, we get the picture of a young man who clearly does not understand the stakes of this conflict. He’s someone who doesn’t know the genre of the story he’s in, and doesn’t know the arc that self-confident young men in this genre have to go through.

Quite glad to have Kento actually try to stand up to Touma against Ren even if it wouldn't be effective, as Kento points out about Touma's creativity being something advantageous over other swordsman and keeps him on par with the others (though forgot to say this, last episode displayed Touma as another one of the characters who can fight untransformed after fighting as KR for a while, along with Rintaro and Kento). Though of course, Ren being fleshed out more here doesn't reduce him being shithead in how he's typically close-minded to only accept power, and he's more certified social darwinist here in his fight with Desast to outright think might makes right (dangerous mindset). Albeit this likely explains why he 'agrees' to team up with Touma with him starting to wonder about the kind of strength he displays after reaching Avalon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

And then, we get the fight against Desast, which was delightful. It’s not the all-time banger their first one was, but I really love how Desast is, like, Lazy Momotaros here. (Or Momotaros At Home, if you prefer.) He just wants to fight, but he’s sort of conversational about it? He’s not leaping from out of frame when Ren least expects it; he’s just sort of hanging out and wondering if this is a good time to have another duel? It’s the best character choice in a show brimming over with compelling characters. I love Desast’s whole Wandering Swordsman thing, and how charmingly loopy his demeanor is. Put him on the Sword of Logos already!

Jokes aside why put him in Sword of Logos? He's evil, unless it's about being redeemed one. Desast claims him and Ren are more alike after the fight, but Desast only laughs over Ren's philosophy (though it's really immature so..) throughout the fight, I wonder if Desast is doing that to provoke Ren or something.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

That's always kind of the struggle with a spinoff like this, I suppose. If it isn't some wildly disconnected original story (like Decade/Zi-O), or a fourth-wall demolishing comedy bit (Net Movies), being too good can paradoxically feel like more of a problem than being bad.

If Only These Bonus Episodes Were Slightly More Inconsequential is such a specifically Fish Sandwich criticism for Saber, and it made my day. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Quite glad to have Kento actually try to stand up to Touma against Ren even if it wouldn't be effective, as Kento points out about Touma's creativity being something advantageous over other swordsman and keeps him on par with the others (though forgot to say this, last episode displayed Touma as another one of the characters who can fight untransformed after fighting as KR for a while, along with Rintaro and Kento).

Sure, Kento's got some valid defenses of Touma, but I think it's more that Touma is his childhood best friend, and Ren is some bratty kid from work. I don't think Kento was going to stand around while Ren disparaged Touma, no matter the justification.

[Deepsea]

I am still here btw, just sort of vibing and enjoying the thread.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deepsea

I am still here btw, just sort of vibing and enjoying the thread.

Glad to hear it!

[Daikaijuman54]

I've still yet to watch the Swordsmen Chronicles.

I'll probably have more to say about Saber later. I really haven't been dropping by this thread.

[Sh Ranger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER: SWORDSMEN CHRONICLES EPISODE 2 - ?AN EPISODE OF KAMEN RIDER KENZAN?

A lot of that comes from how Kenzan is passed around a few different characters, and how his own inner works are exposed through his thoughts on others. We get to see how differently Ren acts around Ogami (attentive, not super thrilled to hang around with some old guy); Kento (definitely doesn?t have a crush on him); and, perfectly, Desast (thinks of him as an obsessive fan). Ren can?t really interrogate himself, but through his deference, jealousy, dismissiveness, and boastfulness, we get the picture of a young man who clearly does not understand the stakes of this conflict. He?s someone who doesn?t know the genre of the story he?s in, and doesn?t know the arc that self-confident young men in this genre have to go through.

Desast's line regarding Ren, "He's definitely one of us.", got a lot of people speculating on what he meant by that. While Desast wants to fight Saber the most, he has this weird kind of friendship with Ren due to their mutual love of fighting, not that either of them would be eager to admit it. Ren's philosophy of "justice is strength, strength is justice" (which I recall TV-Nihon actually got backwards somehow) is still the same as before, but his confusion at Desast's suggestion of absolute strength shows a new angle, that other than his black/white perspective, he actually hates the idea of putting a cap on his strength, which is one of his few good qualities. As I mentioned before, constant self-improvement is an important part of a ninja's lifestyle, so reaching a point where that's no longer possible would be worse than death for him. Why settle for infinity when you can strive for infinity+1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

As much as I see people saying that these specials feel like deleted scenes, I can confirm they in fact AREN?T. All of these shorts are written by one Kaori Kaneko, who wrote none of the episodes they?re meant to tie into.

Despite not writing for the show, through these Retsudens and most recently Sabela & Durandal, I think Kaneko has great insight in to Saber's side characters, while her scripts are always full of engaging and often humorous dialogue. As expected from the person who brought us Rider Time Shinobi!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Jokes aside why put him in Sword of Logos? He's evil, unless it's about being redeemed one. Desast claims him and Ren are more alike after the fight, but Desast only laughs over Ren's philosophy (though it's really immature so..) throughout the fight, I wonder if Desast is doing that to provoke Ren or something.

Agreed. Recruiting the notorious Swordsman Killer to SOL would be like recruiting a taxidermist to the veterinarian clinic. It's a terrible idea!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daikaijuman54

I've still yet to watch the Swordsmen Chronicles.

I'll probably have more to say about Saber later. I really haven't been dropping by this thread.

That's fine! It'll be here for you when you're ready.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Desast's line regarding Ren, "He's definitely one of us.", got a lot of people speculating on what he meant by that. While Desast wants to fight Saber the most, he has this weird kind of friendship with Ren due to their mutual love of fighting, not that either of them would be eager to admit it. Ren's philosophy of "justice is strength, strength is justice" (which I recall TV-Nihon actually got backwards somehow) is still the same as before, but his confusion at Desast's suggestion of absolute strength shows a new angle, that other than his black/white perspective, he actually hates the idea of putting a cap on his strength, which is one of his few good qualities. As I mentioned before, constant self-improvement is an important part of a ninja's lifestyle, so reaching a point where that's no longer possible would be worse than death for him. Why settle for infinity when you can strive for infinity+1.

I mean, I definitely assumed that Desast was once a member of Sword of Logos, even if none of the active Swordsmen are aware of it. But that's just a guess!

And good catch on Ren's motivations! His whole thing is Getting Better Through Combat, which is not a path with a destination to it. Much like Desast -- perhaps too much like Desast -- he needs better opponents to sharpen himself against, like a sword.