[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by Sh Ranger

Personally, I have to praise the actor Togashi for portraying just how much of a creepy psychopath Ren is. I mean, the way he always smiles like a kid in a candy store before his Henshin pretty much tells you that this guy loves to fight more than anything else, so it's not that surprising to me that he seldom expresses more than that one side of himself on the surface. Similar to Kiriya, he's pinpoint-focused on winning, which is why he was able to give Desast his first major defeat. However, he can still be beaten, like in his newspaper duel with Touma and their second competition was a draw, with Kenzan's victory over Desast occurring around the same time as Touma figuring out how to reach Avalon.

I'm glad you're enjoying the performance! It's not really clicking with me -- I think the actor's just hitting the same button too many times -- but it's clear that Ren's got some real fans out there. I hope I'm eventually able to see what everyone likes.

And, in fairness, Ren only lost that duel due to his Totally Not A Crush on Kento.

[Fish Sandwich]

Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Saber Episode 5

This one holds a real special place in my heart, even by Saber's standards. Namely because it's the first episode of the series that I felt like I properly connected with an emotional level. Like, sure, the insanity of these chummy swordsmen had been fun so far, but stories that really stick with me tend to do so because of some sort of humanity I find in the narrative, and the plotline with Touma and Kento surprised me with how much it delivered that.

I thought Kento's trouble opening up was extremely well-realized, and it was sort of shocking to see Touma coming to the conclusion that he needs to give his friend the space to talk when he's ready, when I could easily imagine a take on this plot that's more concerned with condemning Kento for being unhelpful or whatever. But I guess that's just the kind of emotional sensitivity you can expect from Takurou Fukuda's Rider scripts, and since Kazuya Kamihoriuchi was the directer, I guess that's also just the kind of quality you can expect from the dream team behind the Kamen Rider Specter movie.

Oh, and plus! This episode has Saber's second and final proper bike action scene, which apparently is only there because Kamihoriuchi wanted to do a bike action scene, further proving both how cool Kamihoriuchi is, and how little Kamen Rider cares about bike action now, which is less cool!

Naturally, there's a ton of other little things I love about this one; I'm barely scratching the surface here...

Fish Sandwich also watched Kamen Rider Saber Episode 6

...because I've also gotta talk about the second Fukuda/Horiuchi episode of Saber, which wasn't quite the homerun I thought the prior one was. Eiji Togashi's acting as Ren didn't exactly win me over right away. I believe he was one of those young toku actors who was totally new to acting, and unlike some other examples of that, I think it kinda shows in his performance in this one, unfortunately. But you know, just like Ren himself, he's got plenty of room to grow. The upside is that his wooden delivery arguably enhances the creepy blood knight vibe Ren's got going on, and while this episode didn't make me like Kenzan the way I did with the other Riders so far, I'd be lying if I said I didn't find him interesting. The other plotlines in this episode definitely grabbed my attention way more though, especially at the time. Daishinji is adorable and Rintarou was pretty firmly my favorite character at this point.

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Originally Posted by Enchilada645

the post credits scene

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

the what now

clearly this is the universe's way of punishing you for not liking ska

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I thought Kento's trouble opening up was extremely well-realized, and it was sort of shocking to see Touma coming to the conclusion that he needs to give his friend the space to talk when he's ready, when I could easily imagine a take on this plot that's more concerned with condemning Kento for being unhelpful or whatever. But I guess that's just the kind of emotional sensitivity you can expect from Takurou Fukuda's Rider scripts, and since Kazuya Kamihoriuchi was the directer, I guess that's also just the kind of quality you can expect from the dream team behind the Kamen Rider Specter movie.

Even if I'm never going to be a fan of shows dragging out Secret Dire Revelations until it's most narratively convenient -slash- emotionally destructive to do so, I did like how supportive Touma is of Kento's secrecy and misplaced guilt. Like, his buddy isn't ready to open up? That's cool! They're still friends! That's a nice twist on the routine, for sure.

[Mesnick]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

That's cool! They're still friends! That's a nice twist on the routine, for sure.

Yes, this distinguishes Saber from other shows (not just riders) where any secret is used as an excuse for conflict.

[Switchblade]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Let?s start with Kenzan, because he?s the biggest deal in this weird-ass episode. He?s a member of the Sword of Logos, but he?s mostly a gigantic, disrespectful pain in the ass. Nominally here to demonstrate the wrong way of being a superhero in the Kamen Rider multiverse ? thinking might makes right, laughing at the idea of empathy, and relishing the opportunity to detonate monsters ? the episode mostly just has Ren be an immature prick to Touma, and then absolutely prove that might makes right by single-handedly defeating Desast. In an episode of multiple fights, the only clear victory comes from the worst character on the show.

I?m sure we?re going somewhere with this. I?m sure we?re going to be getting an arc where Kenzan either gets humbled or killed. But to have his introduction be that not happening, when there?s so much horribleness to his debut? it doesn?t sit well? It?s annoying to watch, and then there?s no real catharsis to it. It?s just Ren Is A Goofy Dickhead, the end.

I never warmed up to Ren. I understand the character and I get what his deal is, but I never thought of him as anything but the show's worst character. This makes it all the more frustrating that he's a major player in probably my two favorite fight scenes in the entire series. This wasn't one of them.

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It is? man, I don?t know how much longer I can keep giving this show the benefit of the doubt? This was almost unforgivably messy, with what feels like four different episodes worth of subplots tossed in haphazardly and stitched together recklessly. It never feels like it?s saying anything about its world, to me. There?s no guiding hand that feels like it?s got something it wants to communicate, and that super sucks.

If it's any consolation, this is more or less where I was at by this point, too. I can't guarantee that you'll have the same reaction as the show goes on, but for me the series did absolutely find itself eventually, but it wasn't really until it hit the second major story arc.

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

clearly this is the universe's way of punishing you for not liking ska

The universe knows damn well that ska is trash.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesnick

Yes, this distinguishes Saber from other shows (not just riders) where any secret is used as an excuse for conflict.

It does! I'm sort of concerned that its tendency to pass up the easy drama in favor of happier, healthier relationships is a good thing, though? Like, we do need drama in our cast! We need some guys to not get along, because that's where stories live. A show about a group of guys who respect each other's emotional boundaries and practice good self-care is... I don't know if that's the best version of a workplace dramedy?

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

If it's any consolation, this is more or less where I was at by this point, too. I can't guarantee that you'll have the same reaction as the show goes on, but for me the series did absolutely find itself eventually, but it wasn't really until it hit the second major story arc.

I feel like I'll get there. I always do. I like Kamen Rider too much to stay mad at it indefinitely, give or take a soul-crushingly bad Amazons movie. I'm sure there'll be a mix of Stockholm Syndrome and Q2 improvement that'll get me to a place where the negatives seem trivial in light of the positives. Too bad we are still in Q1!

[AkibaSilver]

Just to spite you all, I'm going to listen to some two-tone and ska right now.

Ren is a weird one, in that he feels like he wandered in from a completely different show. The rest of the SOL feel like a coherent organisation - sure Calibur betrayed them, but they're profesional, reasonable people devoted to the protecting people cause. Then Ren is just over here being a gremlin ninja, the shonen rival character in an anime obsessed with strength and being the strongest and Hokage (I have not seen Naruto). If I were being generous, I'd say it's interesting to shake up the protagonists this way, bring in someone to aggravate the others and have some kind of story hook, except he doesn't goes that far, he's too minor a role (how many Riders are we on right now?), so he's just here to be annoying and give Dezast someone who will happily play along with his "enjoying fighting" schtick.

Meanwhile, Rinataro suffers his first bit of character growth... by getting his ass beaten. A good bit both for actually making the Megiddo feel like threats to our heroes, and giving a more personal stake to one of our heroes. Compare that to the Avalon thread, which even for a Fukuda script is kinda nebulous in how it works or what it is, and there's a that you have to hope will pay off if/when they get there.

[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Compare that to the Avalon thread, which even for a Fukuda script is kinda nebulous in how it works or what it is, and there's a that you have to hope will pay off if/when they get there.

Please remember this comment in a few hours when I get around to posting about Episode 7, please and thank you.

EDIT: Also, I don't disagree with your analysis of Ren as being totally incongruent with the (relatively-)stable group of adults who normally hang out at the North Pole, but I think the early episode establishment of the swords picking the users gives them a lot of narrative cover for why this possibly-concussed jerk-off is part of the team. Take it up with Magic Sword HR!

[AkibaSilver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

EDIT: Also, I don't disagree with your analysis of Ren as being totally incongruent with the (relatively-)stable group of adults who normally hang out at the North Pole, but I think the early episode establishment of the swords picking the users gives them a lot of narrative cover for why this possibly-concussed jerk-off is part of the team. Take it up with Magic Sword HR!

Oh yeah, I don't think it ruins the super-deep established lore of the Sword of Logos or anything, I'm totally ready to believe some of their swordspeople are more Rider-like than the normal men we've just happened to meet, but it's an interesting narrative choice to go "Yep, here's friendly Rintaro, and here's friendly Ogami, and here's friendly Kento, and here's violent blood-knight Ren." Especially in the course of, like, 6 episodes!

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Oh yeah, I don't think it ruins the super-deep established lore of the Sword of Logos or anything, I'm totally ready to believe some of their swordspeople are more Rider-like than the normal men we've just happened to meet, but it's an interesting narrative choice to go "Yep, here's friendly Rintaro, and here's friendly Ogami, and here's friendly Kento, and here's violent blood-knight Ren." Especially in the course of, like, 6 episodes!

The only evidence of rushed storytelling in all of Saber, unfortunately. Weird how this error snuck in!