[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by Nokination

I don't really care for this episode, Slash is cool and all and I like his and Touma's chemistry together, but the "forbidden books" thing just seemed so contrived, and I didn't particularly care about Zooous having killed Rintaro's master and the resulting fight.

Yeah the research to find Avalon is yet another random-ass thing Saber drops in with minimal explanation or foreshadowing. Calibur says it, cryptically, an episode or so back, but the idea that there are hidden books with secret secrets in them is... I feel like they could've built up to this better? Or, at all? It's a plot point that's only given the instant it becomes relevant, which only furthers the impression that things are being pulled out of various production asses.

[Enchilada645]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

the what now

How... how long have they been doing these? I don't have the patience to sit through the dance number at the end of each episode, and I never want to watch the teasers for the next episode. How many of these have I missed?!

It's one of the few times it occurs and think this is the first time? But yeah there's a post credits sequence. If you're using FlameSubs for the subs on VLC there are chapter markers. Just be sure to check for any extra parts after the labeled credits chapter.

[Androzani84]

Ah yes, the one with the double meaning title. Specifically, in Japanese, “He Appears” is a homophone for “Sword slash” (Kenzan). Speaking of whom, he’s the only Rider other than the main trio I went all in on buying for (it helped that his items were released only two weeks apart and allowed me to store everything neatly). And this video was briefly my most watched video.

And while the American side of the fandom was pretty unanimous in hating Ren, my fellow UK Rider fans at least got some jokes out of him.



And also he fights Desast. Totally innocuous, nothing more will come of that, I assure you.

[Kurona]

Kenzan... is a pretty solid suit, but doesn't quite get my brain firing as much as the other base Rider suits so far? It's fine at communicating the whole ninja thing; the shuriken visor is really nice, the suit in general is a lot more pared down than the others in what almost feels like a padded wetsuit, the colour scheme is pretty solid... but I just can't quite get into it.

I guess part of it is that for me usually a suit has to match up with the characters or be saying something about them or having something else interesting about it, and it leads me to the question of why is this guy a ninja??? To start it feels a little weird that the organisation of knights - where everyone else so far is just a different type of knight - would just have a ninja as one of them, but I could get around that if it matched up with Kenzan's character which it doesn't? He's the literal opposite of a ninja??? He's all about pure strength rather than speed or agility, he doesn't care for stealth or tactics or anything like that, and spoilers but learning to be a ninja or whatever isn't gonna be part of his character growth... I dunno, it's just weird. It feels like either the Ninja Rider toys got randomly applied to this character or vice versa. I'm not gonna go on about it too much because, sure, whatever; but it has always felt very weird and incongruent to me

[Layton13]

Oh boy... I got a few things to say.

First, Kenzan is probably one of my top 3 Saber characters xD

Yes, I'm serious. I just really like the character, but can't get into any of the reasons why yet. But I can totally get why you hate his guts right now xD

That said, the Avalon part of the episode holds a little nugget of information that I don't think has been brought up yet. You can actually read the books shown in the episode. The symbols correspond to English letters and are written in Japanese. And yes, they aren't actually gibberish. There is a surprising amount of backstory written in them, stuff I won't get into, because spoiler.

It's just such a nice detail from a production standpoint

[Mesnick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

I guess part of it is that for me usually a suit has to match up with the characters or be saying something about them or having something else interesting about it, and it leads me to the question of why is this guy a ninja??? To start it feels a little weird that the organisation of knights - where everyone else so far is just a different type of knight - would just have a ninja as one of them, but I could get around that if it matched up with Kenzan's character which it doesn't? He's the literal opposite of a ninja??? He's all about pure strength rather than speed or agility, he doesn't care for stealth or tactics or anything like that, and spoilers but learning to be a ninja or whatever isn't gonna be part of his character growth... I dunno, it's just weird. It feels like either the Ninja Rider toys got randomly applied to this character or vice versa. I'm not gonna go on about it too much because, sure, whatever; but it has always felt very weird and incongruent to me

I think after Naruto, ninja became more associated with noisy teenagers who want to prove their coolness to the whole world than with invisible shadow warriors. Also (but this is speculation, so not 100% guaranteed) I read somewhere that the Japanese don't really like the ninja/shinobi theme very much, and only exploit it because of its popularity in the rest of the world.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada645

It's one of the few times it occurs and think this is the first time? But yeah there's a post credits sequence. If you're using FlameSubs for the subs on VLC there are chapter markers. Just be sure to check for any extra parts after the labeled credits chapter.

I didn't even know FlameSubs provided chapter breaks! Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Androzani84

And also he fights Desast. Totally innocuous, nothing more will come of that, I assure you.

I'm sure!

I really liked the Desast/Kenzan fight, and not just for how kinetic and propulsive the action was. They just... they both seemed like they were really into it? Which reflects incredibly poorly on Kenzan's value system, in a nicely subtle way? It was a clever choice for Kenzan's first big fight scene.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

I guess part of it is that for me usually a suit has to match up with the characters or be saying something about them or having something else interesting about it, and it leads me to the question of why is this guy a ninja??? To start it feels a little weird that the organisation of knights - where everyone else so far is just a different type of knight - would just have a ninja as one of them, but I could get around that if it matched up with Kenzan's character which it doesn't? He's the literal opposite of a ninja??? He's all about pure strength rather than speed or agility, he doesn't care for stealth or tactics or anything like that, and spoilers but learning to be a ninja or whatever isn't gonna be part of his character growth... I dunno, it's just weird. It feels like either the Ninja Rider toys got randomly applied to this character or vice versa. I'm not gonna go on about it too much because, sure, whatever; but it has always felt very weird and incongruent to me

Which, if I'm feeling like being overly generous (decent breakfast, so maybe), is probably why Ren is cast as the stealthy ninja archetype? He doesn't get it. The entire episode is Ren not understanding the significance or emotional weight of anything going on around him. He doesn't modulate his POWER AND FIGHTING ethos for anything that's happening to anyone else. He's dim, and self-absorbed, and totally unwilling to examine anything that he's presented with. Making that kid a loud, boisterous ninja who's always shouting and laughing and taunting... feels like they're trying to tell us something about Kenzan, even if it's stuff that's readily apparent from his first goddamn scene.

That, or the show's just like Kids Watch Too Much Naruto. One or the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Layton13

That said, the Avalon part of the episode holds a little nugget of information that I don't think has been brought up yet. You can actually read the books shown in the episode. The symbols correspond to English letters and are written in Japanese. And yes, they aren't actually gibberish. There is a surprising amount of backstory written in them, stuff I won't get into, because spoiler.

I was aware of this, but thank you for bringing it up here! I'm currently using this coaster, which I'd previously (and happily) deciphered as saying KAMEN RIDER SABER BRAVE DRAGON around the edge:



It's a very cool bit of production design!

[Mesnick]

Also in my fanon, Sword of Logos and Takeshi from Hibiki were definitely meant to crossover (I just love the idea that a crossover between Saber and Hibiki could happen at any time in history). This means that Kenzan and some of the weapons from future episodes may have been inspired by the musical oni, while the Book Knights influenced the more armored oni suits featured in Seven Senki.

[Kamen Rider Die]

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Originally Posted by Mesnick

Also in my fanon, Sword of Logos and Takeshi from Hibiki were definitely meant to crossover (I just love the idea that a crossover between Saber and Hibiki could happen at any time in history). This means that Kenzan and some of the weapons from future episodes may have been inspired by the musical oni, while the Book Knights influenced the more armored oni suits featured in Seven Senki.

Oh, what a fun idea! I think that's a fascinating concept for a Saber crossover.

[Sh Ranger]

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Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Oh, I guess ep. 4 touched upon the consequences of breaking promises. Seems that even Touma too, can only respond in continuing to talk about keeping it, when his promise apparently failed and got confronted by Ogami. I guess that is meant to build up tension and drama regarding Sora, but Touma, I'd wish for Touma to give a more convincing answer if he can solve it later.... People who purposely give false promises to deceive/manipulate situations are terrible, but deeming them as the worst ones as if no one else is would be subjective... as the worst kind for people would vary... even for petty ones like just someone being "whiny" (as in, having standard emotional outburst while not being a badass...). And as bigger picture is also important, I'd not view those who give a false promise due to being forced by outer circumstances to break it while making an effort for it in the same light.

The trauma of failing to keep a promise from 15 years ago weighs heavily on Touma as well, considering how he has repressed memory of that incident and even the friend to whom he made that promise, he can't recall anything when Rintarou asked about this trait. Kento knows about this, but he's afraid to trigger it in case Touma can't handle remembering the truth. A broken promise can be devastating for both sides. Of course, I suppose it would've been more accurate to say false promise givers are among the worst, not only them. And yeah, there can be rare exceptional circumstances that might warrant renegotiating or aborting a promise, such as the recipient tricking someone in to making the promise by lying or omitting important details, or the recipient doing something dishonorable that renders them unworthy of the promise, or a promise to somebody else conflicting with the promise.

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Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

And yeah, it's nice to see Mei being brought up! Mei's goodl!

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

KAMEN RIDER SABER EPISODE 6 - ?LIKE THE WIND, HE ARRIVES?

Let?s start with Kenzan, because he?s the biggest deal in this weird-ass episode. He?s a member of the Sword of Logos, but he?s mostly a gigantic, disrespectful pain in the ass. Nominally here to demonstrate the wrong way of being a superhero in the Kamen Rider multiverse ? thinking might makes right, laughing at the idea of empathy, and relishing the opportunity to detonate monsters ? the episode mostly just has Ren be an immature prick to Touma, and then absolutely prove that might makes right by single-handedly defeating Desast. In an episode of multiple fights, the only clear victory comes from the worst character on the show.

I?m sure we?re going somewhere with this. I?m sure we?re going to be getting an arc where Kenzan either gets humbled or killed. But to have his introduction be that not happening, when there?s so much horribleness to his debut? it doesn?t sit well? It?s annoying to watch, and then there?s no real catharsis to it. It?s just Ren Is A Goofy Dickhead, the end.

Personally, I have to praise the actor Togashi for portraying just how much of a creepy psychopath Ren is. I mean, the way he always smiles like a kid in a candy store before his Henshin pretty much tells you that this guy loves to fight more than anything else, so it's not that surprising to me that he seldom expresses more than that one side of himself on the surface. Similar to Kiriya, he's pinpoint-focused on winning, which is why he was able to give Desast his first major defeat. However, he can still be beaten, like in his newspaper duel with Touma and their second competition was a draw, with Kenzan's victory over Desast occurring around the same time as Touma figuring out how to reach Avalon.

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

YOU STOLE SOMETHING

?Now go home and have a good ol? cry to mommy, okay??

Zooous totally humiliated Rintarou with that iconic line! He's the only Megid other than Desast to be credited with the death of a previous Swordsmen and I thought this was the moment that made him stand out from his fellow "Book Gangsters". I like how you captured Rintarou's suffering here, both his failure to avenge his master and the pressure to live up to his example as a Swordsman as well.

Fun Fact: Rintarou's master and previous Blades, Nagamine Kenshin, is portrayed by Mikami Masashi, who you might remember as that fortune teller from Drive Episode 14-15!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

the what now

How... how long have they been doing these? I don't have the patience to sit through the dance number at the end of each episode, and I never want to watch the teasers for the next episode. How many of these have I missed?!

You really dislike Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra that much, huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurona

I guess part of it is that for me usually a suit has to match up with the characters or be saying something about them or having something else interesting about it, and it leads me to the question of why is this guy a ninja??? To start it feels a little weird that the organisation of knights - where everyone else so far is just a different type of knight - would just have a ninja as one of them, but I could get around that if it matched up with Kenzan's character which it doesn't? He's the literal opposite of a ninja??? He's all about pure strength rather than speed or agility, he doesn't care for stealth or tactics or anything like that, and spoilers but learning to be a ninja or whatever isn't gonna be part of his character growth... I dunno, it's just weird. It feels like either the Ninja Rider toys got randomly applied to this character or vice versa. I'm not gonna go on about it too much because, sure, whatever; but it has always felt very weird and incongruent to me

There's only one reason a Tokusatsu show ever needs to have ninjas: They're awesome! Not sure if you watched Ninninjer, but that show makes it a point that the heroes aren't traditional ninjas and that's okay. They proudly call themselves, "The ninjas that don't hide!" and even earned the respect of their sempais Ninja and Hurricane Red by showing how their way of being ninjas is different but still important to their unique sense of identity as a Sentai. That show also had a ninja cowboy, so Kenzan being a ninja knight is hardly the weirdest thing that's happened.

While I won't deny that Ren has some serious problems, his courage and motivation to improve himself in combat are totally good qualities for a ninja. To claim that he doesn't care about speed, agility, stealth and tactics is simply wrong, as he clearly shows these skills in his fight with Desast through his use of cloning and substitution ninjutsu and hiding behind walls constructed by the Kobuta San Kyoudai. Desast had an advantage in raw power and experience, but Ren's tactics gave him edge he needed to win.