[ryan]

I can't be the only person that thought it was neat the Gurongi spoke a different language, such that it wasn't translated for us, and thought the mystery of what they were saying was effective?

I also loved OOO, but if I had to choose, I might have enjoyed Fourze more. But OOO is really strong, the OOO/Fourze movie is really good (unlike the OOO portion of the W movie, which as everyone knows was pretty much crap). I definitely recommend OOO as well.

[SPLIT LIP]

I just seems like, from everything Locke is telling us he wants to see, OOO fits the bill nearly perfect.

[ryan]

I remember OOO being far more goofy than W was, for the first many episodes. It seemed sillier. Not to say that Fourze doesn't have that, but I feel the silliness in Fourze makes the characters that silly more endearing, whereas in OOO it was just so random and strange as to stand out more.
But mabye I'm also remembering it poorly. So I don't know. Try a few Fourzes out, then try a few OOO out, see which has your attention more?

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Did you ever try OOO, Locke?

I still find it hard to believe you didn't like W, especially since you watched Wizard and thought Fourze's first episode was good. Was W the first Kamen Rider series you watched? Maybe now that you've seen more KR you should try and revisit it? Maybe now that you have a greater idea of KR overall?

It's just so weird that you like highschool drama and "everyone in the show is a useless tool" drama but not smooth jazz buddycop detective drama.

I really enjoyed the opening OOO episode, so nuts! And it was my first Japanese Rider show, yeah.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan

Ok, I couldn't remember who it was that caused that little ruckus. Well, you're difficult to read then. You didn't like W, but you liked the first episode of Fourze?

Granted, I do feel the Fourze started out stronger than W did. It took W around 10 episodes or so to become really strong, but once it did, I thought it was all amazing. I liked it from the beginning, but the early episodes are definitely weak, and I didn't feel that way for Fourze. But maybe others do, maybe it's too fresh in my mind, I don't know.

I'll explain this again *hands you a walky talky* I'm just gonna get in that air raid shelter first.

I personally didn't like the fights, too much reliance on bad CGI and I personally found the choreography very clunky. MY OPINION. I also wasn't a big fan of the story, I just didn't think it gelled very well with Tokuness but then neither does Kuuga.

And I thought the monster designs were rubbish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan

I can't be the only person that thought it was neat the Gurongi spoke a different language, such that it wasn't translated for us, and thought the mystery of what they were saying was effective?

It was cool at first but I'm 37 episodes in and still know nothing about the villains. They're speaking in Japanese now but about things that have never been explained so I have no idea what they are talking about even translated.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

too much reliance on bad CGI... ...And I thought the monster designs were rubbish...

I know how much you hate hearing this, as do I, but both these aspects get much better. However, this gets better very quickly, no "wait half the show" nonsense.

Comparring, say, the Sweets Dopant to... Weather, (or even guys like Arms or Gene, which was a monster intentionally meant to look aloof and unimposing, but still looked cooler than T-rex or Anamallacarpet) you can deffinitely see how different the monster designs became and evolved. They became much less ridiculous and sleeker. W is a series that almost tries to go camp very early before realising it's much better at telling a more.... I don't want to say serious or mature since thsoe words have morphed into a different meaning on the internet, but I more focused and deliberate story. By the time the first movie happens (about episode 16 I believe) the contrast between the story told at the beginning and at that point is noticable. There's less overt filler and more serious character study and forward plot motion. If I had to compare the tonal shift, I'd say W reminds me a lot of Batman The Animated Series in that if you look at that show, it's got a bit of camp and really silly episodes (Christmas with the Joker, anyone?) before it gets to the point fans remember it being. (Two-Face) I mean, without spoiling anything should you one day decide to revisit it, the stuff with Skull and the backstory of W gets really, REALLY good. The plot gets a lot more developed very quickly.

I'm glad you like OOO, it's my third favourite show. (sometimes second)

[ryan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I personally didn't like the fights, too much reliance on bad CGI and I personally found the choreography very clunky. MY OPINION. I also wasn't a big fan of the story, I just didn't think it gelled very well with Tokuness but then neither does Kuuga.

And I thought the monster designs were rubbish.

Okay, the CGI in the first episodes IS bad, and is used too much. But it's also no worse than the TERRIBLE CG effects of Kuuga transforming. It either gets better as W goes on, or they use it less so it doesn't stand out as much.

Most of the Dopant designs ARE rubbish. But W isn't, and Accel certainly isn't. And some of them are really good, like Nasca, and of course, Skull. the Fangires of Kiva and the Imagin of Den-O are far better designs, in general, of course just like there are winners in W, there are losers in Kiva and Den-O. And of course, there is NO BETTER Rider design than Kiva.

If those are your only criteria for enjoying a show though, I think you're going to have a rough time with all the Kamen Rider shows. I know people have told you to lower your expectations about things, and I may have as well. I don't want to come off saying you need to do that, but keep in mind that sometimes these suits are awkward, or in Kiva's case, downright heavy, it can be difficult to pull off some poses. There are reasons why the giant mech fights in Sentai look like dudes in cardboard suits with all the mobility of a G1 Transformer.

I would say the fighting is better in Fourze. I get the impression that Shotaro is only semi trained in fighting, if that, unlike Skull. Whereas Gentaro fights out of suit quite a bit, and gives the impression that he is more trained. And then Meteor clearly has more training, so his fights are even better that Fourzes.

I don't remember how Eiji was in OOO proper, but in the Megamax movie, I felt like they really let Eiji and Ankh fight a lot out of suit, and it was very convincing to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

It was cool at first but I'm 37 episodes in and still know nothing about the villains. They're speaking in Japanese now but about things that have never been explained so I have no idea what they are talking about even translated.

Huh. I don't know what I saw that you didn't, but I don't remember feeling as lost and confused as I feel you're saying you are. Maybe I read a wiki article before I finish the show, so I had a foundation for what they were talking about?

[Matrixbeast]

Why do you bring up bad CGI as a point against Double when, quite literally, you've brought up bad CGI every time you talk about KR?

[ryan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

I know how much you hate hearing this, as do I, but both these aspects get much better. However, this gets better very quickly, no "wait half the show" nonsense.

Comparring, say, the Sweets Dopant to... Weather, you can deffinitely see how different the monster designs became and evolved. They became much less ridiculous and sleeker. W is a series that almost tries to go camp very early before realising it's much better at telling a more.... I don't want to say serious or mature since thsoe words have morphed into a different meaning on the internet, but I more focused and deliberate story. By the time the first movie happens (about episode 16 I believe) the contrast between the story told at the beginning and at that point is noticable. There's less overt filler and more serious character study and forward plot motion. If I had to compare the tonal shift, I'd say W reminds me a lot of Batman The Animated Series in that if you look at that show, it's got a bit of camp and really silly episodes (Christmas with the Joker, anyone?) before it gets to the point fans remember it being. (Two-Face) I mean, without spoiling anything should you one day decide to revisit it, the stuff with Skull and the backstory of W gets really, REALLY good. The plot gets a lot more developed very quickly.

I'm glad you like OOO, it's my third favourite show. (sometimes second)

When I spoke of winner Dopant designs in Double, I only mentioned Nasca, but yes, Weather is a great design. And the Weather arcs are some of the best stuff in the show.


I'm really bad at ranking shows. I love Den-O and Kiva and W and OOO and Fourze and Kuuga, but trying to rank them all with each other is hard, because as mentioned, a lot of the Dopant designs suck, so do i discount W? Almost all the designs in Kiva are awesome, but it does have weaker story points, so is it worse than W, or better?

Having most recently finished Fourze, it's the one that feel the strongest to me, overall (and the Zodiarts designs were mainly really good), but I felt that way when I finished Den-O months ago too. Do I really like Fourze more, or is it just freshest in my mind?

Momotaros and Ankh are both great characters, sometimes for the same reasons, so is OOO or Den-O better? I don't know!

end rant

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

Why do you bring up bad CGI as a point against Double when, quite literally, you've brought up bad CGI every time you talk about KR?

And W doesn't even use bad CGI that much after the first few episodes where it's trying to sell the gimmick and stuff. I mean, sometimes you'll have W hop on the flight-enabled Hardboilder, but outside of Revolgarry and Accel's bike form I can't think of a heck of a lot of CGI used regularly. (and Revolgarry never looked that bad to me, and Accel used his bike form, like, three times)

Also, Ryan: I'm also bad at ranking shows, but W will lways be my favourite because of two things: W himself and Skull. Shotaro and Philip make the show, and the genuine partnership and comradrie between them is more genuine and badass than any duo of any series I've seen. Even Ryoutaro and Momo, because while Momo was awesome, Ryoutaro was always the obvious weak link. Shotaro and Philip are the two-in-one detective, it's not just a tagline. Those two are the ultimate pair.

And then Skull, well, let's just say that I'm still furious that he never got a full movie but Eternal, that movie-exclusive villain with the face of an old woman did. Such injustice.

Which is not to say W doesn't have other awesome stuff like Accel, the really interesting dynamic of the villains, or the amazing rider designs, but those two aspects are what firmly cement it as #1 for me abovee all the other series, even though most of them are good.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

I know how much you hate hearing this, as do I, but both these aspects get much better. However, this gets better very quickly, no "wait half the show" nonsense.

Comparring, say, the Sweets Dopant to... Weather, you can deffinitely see how different the monster designs became and evolved. They became much less ridiculous and sleeker. W is a series that almost tries to go camp very early before realising it's much better at telling a more.... I don't want to say serious or mature since thsoe words have morphed into a different meaning on the internet, but I more focused and deliberate story. By the time the first movie happens (about episode 16 I believe) the contrast between the story told at the beginning and at that point is noticable. There's less overt filler and more serious character study and forward plot motion. If I had to compare the tonal shift, I'd say W reminds me a lot of Batman The Animated Series in that if you look at that show, it's got a bit of camp and really silly episodes (Christmas with the Joker, anyone?) before it gets to the point fans remember it being. (Two-Face) I mean, without spoiling anything should you one day decide to revisit it, the stuff with Skull and the backstory of W gets really, REALLY good. The plot gets a lot more developed very quickly.

I'm glad you like OOO, it's my third favourite show. (sometimes second)

Should I watch the first W movie and jump in at episode 16 then? I saw enough for the main villain with his huge hat to be introduced so it isn't like I'd be jumping in blind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan

Okay, the CGI in the first episodes IS bad, and is used too much. But it's also no worse than the TERRIBLE CG effects of Kuuga transforming. It either gets better as W goes on, or they use it less so it doesn't stand out as much.

Most of the Dopant designs ARE rubbish. But W isn't, and Accel certainly isn't. And some of them are really good, like Nasca, and of course, Skull. the Fangires of Kiva and the Imagin of Den-O are far better designs, in general, of course just like there are winners in W, there are losers in Kiva and Den-O. And of course, there is NO BETTER Rider design than Kiva.

If those are your only criteria for enjoying a show though, I think you're going to have a rough time with all the Kamen Rider shows. I know people have told you to lower your expectations about things, and I may have as well. I don't want to come off saying you need to do that, but keep in mind that sometimes these suits are awkward, or in Kiva's case, downright heavy, it can be difficult to pull off some poses. There are reasons why the giant mech fights in Sentai look like dudes in cardboard suits with all the mobility of a G1 Transformer.

I would say the fighting is better in Fourze. I get the impression that Shotaro is only semi trained in fighting, if that, unlike Skull. Whereas Gentaro fights out of suit quite a bit, and gives the impression that he is more trained. And then Meteor clearly has more training, so his fights are even better that Fourzes.

I don't remember how Eiji was in OOO proper, but in the Megamax movie, I felt like they really let Eiji and Ankh fight a lot out of suit, and it was very convincing to me.



Huh. I don't know what I saw that you didn't, but I don't remember feeling as lost and confused as I feel you're saying you are. Maybe I read a wiki article before I finish the show, so I had a foundation for what they were talking about?

Kuuga is also like fifteen years old though so it has some level of an excuse.

And I dunno what it was about W, it was just like the fights had no punch, the physical fighting seemed to pad out the fights rather than serve a purpose sorta like how in a wrestling match they just slap each other until one of them does a finisher.

And you could say that is true of ALL fights in this genre and I'd agree but when Kuuga is say, getting thrown through walls or blown up or whatever else I at least can assume he is getting his ass kicked.

A lot of the fights from W that I remember basically involved people wailing on each other til W did the correct Memory Combo to finish the job.