[Sentai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatack

As I said, I like Gaim for what it is but it's just not dark or serious and thats fine. The collectible gimmicks and suit design are an integral part of the series and are reflections of it. My question is if we will ever see a series like Black, RX, Kuuga, Agito, Faiz, Blade, Kabuto etc. again. To me, Gaim really is not that return but fair enough if it is to you

But it is serious. So what if it has some light-hearted moments sprinkled in? Shouldn't a show be able to do both?

[Matrixbeast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatack

As I said, I like Gaim for what it is but it's just not dark or serious and thats fine. The collectible gimmicks and suit design are an integral part of the series and are reflections of it. My question is if we will ever see a series like Black, RX, Kuuga, Agito, Faiz, Blade, Kabuto etc. again. To me, Gaim really is not that return but fair enough if it is to you

Isn't that unfair?
That's like posting a screen cap of Shinji doing something stupid (Which he did quite often) and saying Ryuki is as childish as Den-O...
And while I've never seen it, I've never seen people call RX "Serious."

[Suzu]

Just because something funny happens, that doesn't mean the show is not "serious". W and OOO also had lots of comedy, but both of them were serious. Shinkenger was serious, despite having funny moments.

Just because the costumes are colorful, it doesn't mean the show itself isn't dark...

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

I hope we never get another season like Kuuga ever again.

Agreed.

Every "dark" series would've been ten times better if it wasn't dark simply because it's head was up it's own ass so far no light reached it's eyes. Kamen Rider doesn't work when it's that "dark." When you try and be that serious, the inherent ridiculousness of the concept shows through, and the rubber monsters seem even more rubbery, and the zippers on the backs seem even more prominent, and the CGI even worse, etc. I couldn't take Agito seriously because it was so pretentous, and so deadpan.

If your goal is to be dark, then you have a misguided goal. Dark is, by itself, a bad idea. When a show tries to be dark with no humour or likability, it goes down. Ryuki, a "dark" series I quite liked, was easily at it's worst when it tried to be dark and "edgy' and "serious" because it tried too hard. You need humour and light-hearted bits to offset the dark and serious, or it becomes a drolling monotone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatack

As I said, I like Gaim for what it is but it's just not dark or serious and thats fine. The collectible gimmicks and suit design are an integral part of the series and are reflections of it. My question is if we will ever see a series like Black, RX, Kuuga, Agito, Faiz, Blade, Kabuto etc. again. To me, Gaim really is not that return but fair enough if it is to you

That's because "having humour" isn't the same as "not being dark."

Or do I need to remind you about Agito holding a frying pan as a tennis racket? Even the old series weren't as serious as you're making them out. I seem to recall Faiz even being widely disliked for being too dark, and I personally find Kabuto to be utter tripe. The less like Kabuto ANY series is, the better.

[Gatack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

But it is serious. So what if it has some light-hearted moments sprinkled in? Shouldn't a show be able to do both?

I agree completely, I think it's always good to have comedy or light-hearted moments in there to mix it up. But with Gaim, they're not 'sprinkled' in, it's very dense so far and it does affect the story or at least my perception of it. I'm still watching it but I really don't get any serious vibe from it

You guys seem to have misunderstood, I never said Gaim is bad and I never said 'dark' equals good. Simply pondering the return of a 'dark', 'gritty' 'serious' series.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Agreed.

Every "dark" series would've been ten times better if it wasn't dark simply because it's head was up it's own ass so far no light reached it's eyes. Kamen Rider doesn't work when it's that "dark." When you try and be that seriosu, the inherent ridiculousness of the concept shows through, and the rubber monsters seem even more rubbery, and the zippers on the backs seem even more prominent, and the CGI even worse, etc.

If your goal is to be dark, then you have a misguided goal. Dark is, by itself, a bad idea. When a show tries to be dark with no humour or likability, it goes down. Ryuki, a "dark" series I quite liked, was easily at it's worst when it tried to be dark and "edgy' and "serious" because it tried too hard.

Kuuga wasn't just arrogant, it was juvenile. In sickeningly gratuitous fashion the show would rub your face in the body count, making sure to purr words like 'dead children' and 'suicide'. BECAUSE MY GOD ISN'T THIS MATURE AND EDGY (if you're 12 years old, and your favourite author is Kishimoto).

[Gatack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Kuuga wasn't just arrogant, it was juvenile. In sickeningly gratuitous fashion the show would rub your face in the body count, making sure to purr words like 'dead children' and 'suicide'. BECAUSE MY GOD ISN'T THIS MATURE AND EDGY (if you're 12 years old, and your favourite author is Kishimoto).

That's absurd. And avoiding death or any kind of actual danger is better?
The dead children and suicide aspects of the porcupine grongi arc you're referring to never felt forced to be mature and edgy. They were there to progress the story. The always optimistic and happy hero was affected by those horrible events and he raged with power when he finally was able to get his hands on the killer. The rage and power gave us a foreshadowing of Ultimate form, presenting the plot point of wether Kuuga's power was good or evil.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatack

I'm still watching it but I really don't get any serious vibe from it

Every advanced Invess Gaim kills, he kills a person. He's killed at least a innocent sewer worker, and likely his team leader, if not just another unfortunate soul.

That's pitch God damn black, man. But it works, because the show is very real and doesn't needlessly place gravitas on events, so when this revelation comes to light, it will be all the more impactful.

Quote:

Simply pondering the return of a 'dark', 'gritty' 'serious' series.

You say that as if those words shouldn't be taboo.

Allow me to share a minor revelation I have come to about 'dark' rider shows and the seemingly unwarranted hype behind them. Based on Agito, Kabuto and parts of Ryuki, I find fans generally don't get that "darkness" and "sensibility" aren't automatically synonymous. I find that actual storytelling, characters, plot and logic are backseat to dramatic imagery and pretty words. Agito is praised as a masterpiece, yet it is entirely hollow. It's paper-thin, yet bizzarely vague and convoluted plot revolves around God. This is not because the concept of God is worth exploring, or his teachings worth telling. You know, all the reasons any sane person would introduce God into somethign as trivial as rubber-suited bugmen. Instead, it's simply because the imagery of a devine figure in white and the idea of God in something like Kamen Rider is "cool" because more sophisticated works include these aspects. But verses including those aspects secondary to the point of the show, they are instead what I can only reasonably conclude to be an attempt at hollow symbolism. Nothing in the show has anything to do with God, in fact (and I'm tryign to avoid discussing religion outright) the entire show and meaning behind Agito seems counter to the entire point of God.

Likewise, Kabuto. What does his real name translate to? "Walking the path to heaven." Does this have anything actually to do with heaven, or symbolism or morals around it? Nope, it just sounds cool.

Oh, and let's not forget characters standing ramrod-still dramatically for long periods of time, rather than in any greta meaningful way. Because it's cool to see people standing still, looking important, but of course not actually DOING anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatack

That's absurd. And avoiding death or any kind of actual danger is better?
The dead children and suicide aspects of the porcupine grongi arc you're referring to never felt forced to be mature and edgy. They were there to progress the story. The always optimistic and happy hero was affected by those horrible events and he raged with power when he finally was able to get his hands on the killer. The rage and power gave us a foreshadowing of Ultimate form, presenting the plot point of wether Kuuga's power was good or evil.

Something easily acheivable without dead kids and suicide.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatack

That's absurd. And avoiding death or any kind of actual danger is better?
The dead children and suicide aspects of the porcupine grongi arc you're referring to never felt forced to be mature and edgy. They were there to progress the story. The always optimistic and happy hero was affected by those horrible events and he raged with power when he finally was able to get his hands on the killer. The rage and power gave us a foreshadowing of Ultimate form, presenting the plot point of wether Kuuga's power was good or evil.

Except that is the only time in fifty episodes Godai reacts, and after that, they never bring it up again. Maybe MAYBE the gratuitous grimness of it all could have worked, but with an avatar into the world like Godai, a character with no arc or growth, it felt as stomach churning pessimistic as it did utterly soulless.

[SPLIT LIP]

Agito had a similar problem. Gratuitous death, shock imagery and "grim" cicumstances harmlessly pinged off of Agito, almost insultingly so. Despite MINIMUM one dead civilian per episode, Agito never knew or gave a shit. ONE death, of some manipulating girl, got to him... for eight seconds.

Every episode someone would die in a horrifyign way... and our greta hero never even saw them. Or even heard about them. He undoubtably knew, but he never mentioned it, or alluded to it. He just flew off on automatic to fight, then went home without ever mentioning the fact he turns into a karate insect guy until almost a quarter into the show.

You know how Kouta was all excited and transforming for stupid shit after finding his belt? That may be comedic, but it's also realistic. A normal person would totally do that, explore this magnificent gift and get the most out of it. Agito doesn't. In fact, it's not even clear if he knows he can. Until later.