[KRX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Startaiger

Seriously, I can't get interested in Spider-man anymore, I just can't!!
Marvel messed it beyond repair, starting yeeeeaaars back with the clone saga.
- Norman's return.
- Aunt May dead/alive!? What is the trend these daze?
- The whole "I had a baby girl once but she disapeared & I couldn't care less" thing.
- Gwen & Norman's twins!!!
- Satan broke my marriage but I'm fine with it, Yahoo!!!
- Now, that ....stupidity about Otto's mind in Peter's body!!! I mean ...Come on!!!

What's next?? Uncle Ben's gay sex tapes?? J.J.J being Peter's "real" father??? I wouldn't be suprised by either of this, or by worse...

This is too much for me, way too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange Ranger

Pretty much agree with all of that. Spider-Man is the character they screw around with the most and in big ways. All the bad storytelling over the years is why we don't have as many great spidey stories that people point to like they do with "The Killing Joke" or "Dark Knight Returns".

I will say that as much as I hate the stuff surrounding Norman coming back like the BS relationship with Gwen, which must have made Stan Lee cry himself to sleep, I did really dig the Thunderbolt/Dark Avengers time with him running the show.

I'm just about ready to give up on him, too. But I can't, because 1). I'm far too forgiving for my own good; 2). I owe most of my current position in life to the character; 3). he's still a fun character, "Superior" or not; and 4). he always bounces back. Sure, One More Day is still canon. On the other hand, we have Spider-Man/Human Torch, Spider-Island (which only I seem to like), The Fantastic Spider-Man-arc, Ends of the Earth, and (forgive me for this) Dying Wish.

Peter Parker is always going to get screwed over. That was established back in Amazing Fantasy #15. But he'll get over it, rise up, and save the day. Because that is who he is.

That's why we read his stories. It's not for the fact that he gets put through numerous tragedies and tribulations for the sake of tragedies and tribulations. It's for that moment when he picks up the pieces and defeats his opponent.

But that's not how I want The Superior Spider-Man to end. If OctoPeter is supposed to be the hero, he needs to go out like a hero.

[Startaiger]

KRX, don't mistake characterization & terrible editorial decisions.

[KRX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Startaiger

KRX, don't mistake characterization & terrible editorial decisions.

I never said all of those decisions were wise. I'm just pointing out why people read Spider-Man's stories.

[Startaiger]

The last time I really enjoyed reading Spidey's adventures, it was Sensational Spider-man by Dezago & Wieringo, like... 15 years ago.
I blame Quesada for his constant efforts to ruin this great character, & Straczynski for being a pathetic writer...

[KRX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Startaiger

The last time I really enjoyed reading Spidey's adventures, it was Sensational Spider-man by Dezago & Wieringo, like... 15 years ago.
I blame Quesada for his constant efforts to ruin this great character, & Straczynski for being a pathetic writer...

Dan Slott's run is pretty fun (except for the whole "I-murdered-your-childhood-with-Peter-Parker" thing, but even that has its moments).

[algo448]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Startaiger

Seriously, I can't get interested in Spider-man anymore, I just can't!!
Marvel messed it beyond repair, starting yeeeeaaars back with the clone saga.
- Norman's return.
...
...
- Now, that ....stupidity about Otto's mind in Peter's body!!! I mean ...Come on!!!

This is too much for me, way too much.

I get you man, I really get you.

The thing is that everybody at Marvel is so interested at keeping Spidey the same way he has been for years that basically every story will be retconned or ignored in a few years or even months, so I guess some writers have been exploiting that to make some crazy stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRX

But that's not how I want The Superior Spider-Man to end. If OctoPeter is supposed to be the hero, he needs to go out like a hero.

Ock is no hero, at least not the way Peter was, he's more of a sociopathic orwellian vigilante (a fun one nontheless), so I can honestly expect him to fall like a villain.

[KRX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by algo448

Ock is no hero, at least not the way Peter was, he's more of a sociopathic orwellian vigilante (a fun one nontheless), so I can honestly expect him to fall like a villain.

Which is precisely why he needs to go out a hero. The only way that The Superior Spider-Man can be something more than another dark period in Spider-Man's history is if Peter doesn't defeat Otto and reclaim his life, but instead Otto makes the heroic sacrifice to give Peter his life back. If Otto Octavius can learn to be a hero, than I can say with the utmost confidence, 'While I didn't appreciate it at the time, The Superior Spider-Man was a great story."

[algo448]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRX

Which is precisely why he needs to go out a hero. The only way that The Superior Spider-Man can be something more than another dark period in Spider-Man's history is if Peter doesn't defeat Otto and reclaim his life, but instead Otto makes the heroic sacrifice to give Peter his life back. If Otto Octavius can learn to be a hero, than I can say with the utmost confidence, 'While I didn't appreciate it at the time, The Superior Spider-Man was a great story."

I guess we'll have to agree on disagree, I think one of the great things about Superior is that it ultimately proves that no matter how many crazy inventions or ruthless techniques Ock uses Peter is still and undeniably the true and superior hero.

While Ock undeniably can be a hero given the right conitions and circusntances I don't think a heroic sacrifice to restore Peter would go along with his characterization... Unless it's to save the only person he truly cares about, but it would feel kind of cheap to me.

Then again, whether Ock leaves peacefully or Peter wins, what ultimately matters is the writing quality.

[KRX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by algo448

I guess we'll have to agree on disagree, I think one of the great things about Superior is that it ultimately proves that no matter how many crazy inventions or ruthless techniques Ock uses Peter is still and undeniably the true and superior hero.

While Ock undeniably can be a hero given the right conitions and circusntances I don't think a heroic sacrifice to restore Peter would go along with his characterization... Unless it's to save the only person he truly cares about, but it would feel kind of cheap to me.

Then again, whether Ock leaves peacefully or Peter wins, what ultimately matters is the writing quality.

I will give you that.

However, while it would go against Otto's current characterization to restore Peter by sacrificing himself, I'm hoping that he'll develop into a hero. Goblin Nation seems like it'll push OctoPeter to the absolute limit. Combine that with all of the other decisions that he made throughout the series, plus the fact that solicitations are constantly saying that it will all be Otto's fault, I think Otto will be able to learn why he was not a superior Spider-Man.

If Otto just goes down like a villain, I won't mind. I just want him to learn what it means to be a hero, even if it's just a final lesson-type deal.

[algo448]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRX

I will give you that.

However, while it would go against Otto's current characterization to restore Peter by sacrificing himself, I'm hoping that he'll develop into a hero. Goblin Nation seems like it'll push OctoPeter to the absolute limit. Combine that with all of the other decisions that he made throughout the series, plus the fact that solicitations are constantly saying that it will all be Otto's fault, I think Otto will be able to learn why he was not a superior Spider-Man.

If Otto just goes down like a villain, I won't mind. I just want him to learn what it means to be a hero, even if it's just a final lesson-type deal.

I'll admit I kind of forgot about Goblin Nation, so I defintely get you point better now, it could be an interesting turn.