[KRX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

Kouta is becoming Wataru. I love Wataru, I honestly do, let me say that first off. But it seems like every piece of news Kouta gets it's on his knees and he gives up for an episode. Least Kouta has a good reason to be upset this week. But he has to be the only person in the world who hadn't figured out he killed Yuuma.
Was nice seeing him snake Peach's LockSeed though, I just thought he'd use it against Shin Zangetsu.
And we're 22 episodes in and I still don't see a definitive Big Bad yet. Takatora seemed it at first but now he seems more like a Neutral. He's not evil, but he's not good, he's just trying to save humanity.. in the most batshit way he could think of. But still. Ryouma doesn't seem it either. He's what I think is a Choatic Neutral in this. Sid.. Sid's just an asshole. Maybe Invess Overlord? I dunno.

Perhaps the main villain of this story is not a being, but the collective flaws of all of the characters.

[Kiryu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

Kouta is becoming Wataru. I love Wataru, I honestly do, let me say that first off. But it seems like every piece of news Kouta gets it's on his knees and he gives up for an episode. Least Kouta has a good reason to be upset this week. But he has to be the only person in the world who hadn't figured out he killed Yuuma.
Was nice seeing him snake Peach's LockSeed though, I just thought he'd use it against Shin Zangetsu.
And we're 22 episodes in and I still don't see a definitive Big Bad yet. Takatora seemed it at first but now he seems more like a Neutral. He's not evil, but he's not good, he's just trying to save humanity.. in the most batshit way he could think of. But still. Ryouma doesn't seem it either. He's what I think is a Choatic Neutral in this. Sid.. Sid's just an asshole. Maybe Invess Overlord? I dunno.

Unlike Wataru though he isn't spending most of the series locked up in a bath tub

[KyoryuBlue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRX

Perhaps the main villain of this story is not a being, but the collective flaws of all of the characters.

This.

The only villain is the one that doesn't follow the same justice system that the other does.

However, this justice is only defined by the Armored Rider that survives. A complex, but simple truth. Whom ever survives. Carves, and records their history. Only the variables will decide the constant.

[Locke]

My post became empty after I posted it? :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnerPrime

The problem is that Ryouma and his plan being the best we've got seems to be based on the words of Ryouma himself. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Ryouma stopped looking at other options after coming up with the 'kill billions' plan because he really seems to like that plan. All the statements of 'there's no other way' stem from Ryouma, and as far as I'm concerned that makes them far from reliable fact.

But the point is, you're only perceiving this because of your own ideologies.

There are some things, which are inherently evil - like I dunno, kicking a perfectly healthy loving baby, down the stairs or whatever. There is no argument for how that could be perceived as good. Or at least no argument that functions under the laws of being a human.

Now you're writing off Ryouma as a psycho, fine, but with how much we've got to go on I think we have a lot of evidence to call his plan a necessary evil. You're fixating on the people who are dying, that is a perfectly normal reaction, but you're also assuming he's killing six billion people for shits and gigs like he actually could do more and is just refusing...for some reason. We have a LOT more evidence to prove that ISN'T the case, than we do to say it is.

Gaim is a toku show, granted, but it also seems to be going out of its way to capture the complexity of human emotion and the kind of complex moral, and ethical decisions that real world leaders have to make all the time. Sometimes the best option is sometimes the worst option in other cases, and some decisions are hard and don't make you any friends. With a different focus, Ryouma could have quite easily been the hero of the show. At least with what we have now, he might turn round and become a total nutter but I can't say that until it happens.

Especially as I'm someone who doesn't want to boil down such a complex series to blacks and whites like good and evil. I think if you peg anyone in this show as a wholly good, or wholly evil, then you've completely missed the point. I'm sorry.

[ZeoRangerV]

"Necessary evils" and "the bigger picture" is standard Urobuchi as well, given how prominent it was by the end of Madoka.

Ryouma certainly has a screw loose somewhere and certain members of Yggdrasil shouldn't be reveling in it as much as they are, but good and evil are far from straightforward in this show.

[Sentai]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiryu

Unlike Wataru though he isn't spending most of the series locked up in a bath tub

Good point

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

"Necessary evils" and "the bigger picture" is standard Urobuchi as well, given how prominent it was by the end of Madoka.

Ryouma certainly has a screw loose somewhere and certain members of Yggdrasil shouldn't be reveling in it as much as they are, but good and evil are far from straightforward in this show.

Because this is Urobuchi I'm hoping this doesn't end in "Yup, X was behind the whole thing. Lol Kamen Rider..."

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Gotta go with Kouta here.


For starters, I'm thinking from the perspective of the average citizen here. If you were told that, out of a population of 7 billion people, only 1/7th of those people would be allowed to survive, you wouldn't think your odds are that good. Secondly, if Project ARK exists to allow the strongest humans alive, who does Yggdrasil consider 'strong'? I mean, even as a member of the audience, I don't know what the standard for that is, and I'd be worried if someone like Kaito had a say in who's strong and who's weak. Yggdrasil can basically choose to kill off whoever doesn't fit their standards and we don't even KNOW what those standards are. No offense, but this desire to create the 'master race' is all too familiar. And can I really trust the side that is so willing to pull the trigger on the vast majority of the world without remorse? I mean, you have Sid the shady, sociopathic lock dealer, Yoko, the one who follows orders and asks no questions and Ryoma, a guy who seems to be utterly lacking in emotion. Can you truly say this trio has exhausted all possible outcomes?

Even if Kouta doesn't quite have a plan yet, I can at least trust a guy like him to find an alternative that doesn't involve mass genocide, solely because of his passion for protecting humanity, a passion that I can't see in any of the four Energy Riders, save for Takatora, who's probably going to be betrayed by the other 3 anyway.

[Thessair]

I think Ryoma is being manipulated from behind the scenes. I'm guessing the information about Helheim destroying Zawame City (and the subsequent plans) came from a secretive member of the Yggdrasil board who has a penchant for wearing rain coats and is portrayed by Tatsuhito Okuda.

"Onore, Gaimu!"

(I'll show myself out. )

[Kiryu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

Good point

That said though, I do find it a bit irritating how often he regresses from "Let's protect the people!" To "I don't wanna fight any more!"

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentai

Was nice seeing him snake Peach's LockSeed though, I just thought he'd use it against Shin Zangetsu.

I'm guessing Toei didn't want to introduce two new armors in one episode.