[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

Hm. So it sounds like something I'd never finish. But I'm still into this idea of watching all of the Heisei KR series I haven't seen chronologically.

Is there a list of episodes that might cull the series down to, like... 20 or 25? Instead of 50+. That might make it an easier proposition for me.

Not really. The early Heisei shows were more serialized than a lot of the stuff we've gotten recently and Kuuga was especially invested in a lot of the side characters and how they interact with each other and the ongoing mystery of the Grongi.

I say stick it out for awhile and see what you think for yourself. Kuuga's got a pretty vocal group of haters here, but in the wider Kamen Rider fanbase it's usually ranked as one of the high points of the franchise. No, it's not as flashy or action-packed as a lot of the recent stuff and yes, the budget is noticeably smaller than many of the other shows, but it's a really good series with a great cast, some engaging mysteries at the core, and easily the best interpretation ever of what it would be like if monsters and a Kamen Rider started appearing in the real world.

It also sets up the kind of tone that Agito builds off of, and Agito is a masterpiece.

[XW1n5t0nX]

Faiz Episode 24
No Yuji it's Agito. Pfft bitch you know nothing.

SPIRIT BOMB!

So Kusaka was going to join Lucky Clover to destroy Smart Brain, which would take out his rival? Does he mean Takumi? I don't quite get how destroying Smart Brain would eliminate Takumi. If it's a case of destroying the company to take away the Faiz Gear powers, wouldn't this also cause the Kaixa Gear powers to go away? Even if you take away the powers, Takumi would still be there unless your idea is to take away his powers, and then kill him man to man. Oiii...I do not understand your plan Kusaka.

Smart Brain lady, you continue to creep me out.

I now want to see two things after this scene with Naoya.

1. Naoya propose to Mari in his usual hilarious fashion
2. For Naoya's actor to play the Joker and act like Naoya while doing so

Well Keitaro you see, Kusaka confessed his feelings to Mari and Mari rejected him causing Kusaka to become depressed. Along with this Kusaka has been approached by the enemy team and is being recruited (or trying to be recruited). As for Takumi, he's stuck in the middle of all of this while continuing to be his usual Takumi self. So Keitaro this is why it seems bleak as far as the atmosphere goes.

That Orphenoch has a belt!

Oh God That was freaking priceless.

That was actually a pretty nice scene between Naoya and the kid. Naoya seems like the type whose in the middle of this whole Orphenoch thing about giving into the powers, but also staying human. I could actually see him breaking off and leading his own party of Orphenochs.

And thus Faiz has turned into the wacky (mis)adventures of Naoya and kid.

The kid's Orphenoch design is kinda lame in my opinion. I think it's most with the flaps on the head portion. They look bad to my eye and are kinda distracting from the rest of the suit.

Because this is Thriller! Thriller night!

That was quite the nice little fight. I think Naoya and kid trying to get the belts the whole time made it a bit more interesting, as it wasn't your usual straight up brawl that we tend to get in fights. So very nice fight.

...Okay can I please oh please get a show just about Naoya and this kid doing wacky shit? Though I am curious, where did they get a police car, bike, and uniforms at? Not to mention, how did they set up the road block?

You two are royally fucked.

Well 24 was pretty darn nice if you ask me. The action in the episode was very lovely all around. Probably one of the few times in the show when I actually think every action scene was great and have nothing bad to say about them.

As far as story goes, this one had a bit more of a clear cut one, with the episode revolving around Lucky Clover and their attempts to get a new member and get back the Faiz and Kaixa gears. There was also the story about the new Orphenoch and his coming to understand what he is and all of that jazz, which mixed in well with Naoya's own little personal story about him and Mari. The episode moved forward the main story of the show at least somewhat, and the in episode story was very good. So personally, I think 24 did a good job with it's story aspect.

Character development seems to be missing though. I'd say Naoya got some, but considering he switches back and forth between feelings every other episode, it's really hard to tell when he;s getting actual development and not just flip flopping his opinions. So I'd have to say that there isn't really any development here.

It's a shame too. The show in my opinion nailed 2/3rds of what usually goes into a Kamen Rider episode, and it makes it one of the better ones. Not only did it get two main aspects right, it was entertaining as most Faiz episodes ares. If it had character development, and was done nicely, then this would probably be a perfect episode on technical/critical terms as well as on tone and purely entertainment terms.

So Faiz episode 24 is in my honest opinion a near perfect episode.

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

Not really. The early Heisei shows were more serialized than a lot of the stuff we've gotten recently and Kuuga was especially invested in a lot of the side characters and how they interact with each other and the ongoing mystery of the Grongi.

I say stick it out for awhile and see what you think for yourself. Kuuga's got a pretty vocal group of haters here, but in the wider Kamen Rider fanbase it's usually ranked as one of the high points of the franchise. No, it's not as flashy or action-packed as a lot of the recent stuff and yes, the budget is noticeably smaller than many of the other shows, but it's a really good series with a great cast, some engaging mysteries at the core, and easily the best interpretation ever of what it would be like if monsters and a Kamen Rider started appearing in the real world.

It also sets up the kind of tone that Agito builds off of, and Agito is a masterpiece.

You're doing a good job of selling it, Switch.

Yeah, I'm aware of the rarefied position it holds in the greater KR fandom, so I'm taking the haters here (and the people who love it elsewhere) with a grain of salt.

Part of the reason I like Tokunation is that the opinions of posters here often diverge from the fandom consensus at large. Sometimes that attitude can come off as needlessly contrary... But it's nice that we have a group of people who try not to follow the herd. We're a bunch of Toku Rebels.

That said, I think I'm more interested in tracking the evolution of this franchise than I am in avoiding "crap." So once I finish Ryuki (or -- should I pause and pick it back up when it comes up in sequence? I'm about 20 episodes deep. I welcome any recommendations.), I'm going back to the beginning of the Heisei era (skipping series I've already watched along the way). So my journey will take me from Kuuga through Agito, 555, Blade, Hibiki, Kabuto, Den-O, Decade, W, the episodes I skipped of OOO, and Wizard.

Unless someone can make a convincing case for why that's stupid.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

It also sets up the kind of tone that Agito builds off of, and Agito is a masterpiece.

>insert Bender "laugh harder" here because Tokunation is busted<

I will never, EVER understand where "Agito is a masterpiece" comes from. It is a dry, boring, inhumane, pretentious, and unsubtle whack of just awful ideas and execution. People say it's "artistic" or "mature" or other such nonsense, but really I think Agito just LOOKS a hell of a lot more deep than it really is.

It has that inane and misplaced subplot of God and shit like that, further proving how little Japan actually knows about Christianity. It's cinematography is like an art student's first go "artsy" filming. The show is no more mature than any other show. The main character is BEYOND stupid. He is utterly removed from the Kamen Rider stuff, almost NEVER mentioning it, and reacts in almost NO way to anythign that happens to him. The characters are largely bland and archtypical, filling role types, but not being interesting characters themselves. Agito is very much like a bad fanfic. It wants to be dark, so it throws detah in everywhere. It wants a "strong" and "distant" hero who's maybe a little "aloof" so they're not accused of being needlessly dramatic. But instead he just seems removed from the show. The entire series is 49 episodes of THE SAME QUESTION and when we finally get an answer, it's so fucking dub. It's God. God did everything. Because God and the Devil don't like eachother. THERE. I saved you 49 episodes of boredom, bad acting, and out of place filters. The action is dismal, the rider stuff seems utterly pointless. The most exciting part is G3, but in hindsight I think I ony felt that because he was different. HE didn't do anything either.

The biggest problem is how utterly devoid of energy the show is. Nothing MOVES. People are rigid, the action is poorly paced. The colours are either filtered or desaturated, the monsters have no interesting backstory or motives. (except for one VERY CONTRADICTORY explanation of their little hand gesture, that it is a prayer for forgiveness for killing humans... except MORE THAN ONE monster CLEARLY liked to kill people, so dunno what it's repenting for) It's just so... dumb. I feel bad for just saying "dumb" but I have no other way to put into words just how badly this series' aspects fit together.

Honestly you've got to wonder if the only reason Agito is considered good is because people THINK it's what a masterpiece is like in Japan. That merely because the focus was not on gimmicks or action, that somehow makes it SUPER DEEP or some such drivel.

EDIT: Ugh, Tokunation's stupid text/video embed thing.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

I will never, EVER understand where "Agito is a masterpiece" comes from. It is a dry, boring, inhumane, pretentious, and unsubtle whack of just awful ideas and execution. People say it's "artistic" or "mature" or other such nonsense, but really I think Agito just LOOKS a hell of a lot more deep than it really is.

You are still literally the only person I've ever seen who didn't like Agito.

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

You are still literally the only person I've ever seen who didn't like Agito.

So Locke hasn't seen it then.








J/K, Locke, we love you.

[SPLIT LIP]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

You are still literally the only person I've ever seen who didn't like Agito.

So?

Lots of people can like something that's utterly awful. Just look at "The Hangover" movies.

In fact, that's another point I was going to get to. This is ESPECIALLY likely due to Agito's age. When Kamen Rider was becoming more well-known across the web, as the wb itself became more popular, Kuuga and Agito were probably right in that sweetspot when video hosters were putting up subs of foreign shows.

I firmly believe Agito's reputation is founded on that belief that it was "good" because it was merely different. It was a genere long accociated with sillyness to Americans, and it was being treated serious in Japan. So they think "well obviously if it's serious it must be good!" Throw in a few nonsensical religious parallels, some filters and a shit-load of civilian death because YEAH HARDCORE DEATH AWESOME and you've got a "masterpiece" in the eyes of people who simply don't know better.

Agito lacked the one crucial element to any successful story: emotion. NOBODY genuinely portrayed emotion in that story. Most of the time Agito just didn't care about what happened. People died, he fought monsters, and the show made it look like he wasn't even part of it. When his scumbag fake-girlfriend died, he barely felt down.

OH, and Gills. Motherfucker, I've heard people say he's their FAVOURITE secondary rider, and that I REALLY can't understand. All he did was scream and grunt. Then again, HE actually displayed emotion. He must've seemed like the best charatcer in anything ever next to Agito. Or, much like the loads of dead people and filtered camera angles, Gill's hilariously ridiculous screaming fooled people into thinking there was a REASON for it beyond "let's pretend this is intense because people are screaming!"

Agito is easily the worst Kamen Rider series I've ever seen. Pure lowest common denominator. I remember when I was watching it, week-to-week, and recanting the utter nonsense I was being exposed to, and people just kept saying "it'll all make sense at the end." Then it DIDN'T. It was such a cheap cop-out explanation to the mystery of the ENTIRE show. Agito spent so much time asking questions, it made no effort to be entertaining. I remember saying it should've explained things earlier, and the most common response I got was "well if they explained it earlier, there would've been nothing left."

It's really the same thing I see with people worried Gaim will run out of plot. They're all so conditioned to knowing a show in it's entirety essentially from the beginning. They expect the show to follow a rudimentary formula of "ask a question in episode one, answer it in the finale' type deal, that nothing new or game-changing can ever happen mid-series that REPLACES the ongoing plot. They think a road should have no turns or detours. Just a straight line of predictability between here and the destination, that the mere idea of something unexpected is not even present in their minds for consideration.

[Wolfexia]

Now I am going to piss everyone off by saying that I honestly didn't like kamen rider double and it's entirely akiko and xtreme's fault double like OOO's had this element of strategy to the memories. Yet xtreme took that away. I would have liked xtreme better if it wasn't always cyclone joker. This and the fact that I wished akiko would go smack a beehive with that damn slipper half of the time made me feel somewhat disappointed in the whole thing. Don't get me wrong when double was good it was REALLY good I mean katsumi terui and soukichi were fantastic characters and I loved the eternal movie to death but sadly it ends up low on my list due to it's bad comedy segments such as when akiko tried to force terui to give up being a rider.
As I said yesterday I hated Hina from OOO's with a passion but I would honestly rather be hugged to death by her then be near akiko for any span of time.


I realized as I was writing this how few "main females" I actually like I found miu and yuuki tolerable and loved the hell out of tomoko, and I was okay with koyomi only because she actually moved the story along but other than that I always seem to hate the lead female and I've seen hibiki onward to gaim and kuuga


Ooh and if you count satonaka I honestly thought she was bland though I did like her when she actually did stuff

[SPLIT LIP]

I hated Koyomi. She was just such a terrible actress, always looking like she was about to pout or throw some kind of minitantrum, though she never did. It's one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of Mai, but since her Actress ALSO plays her helhiem doppelganger and SHE doesn't act that way, it's obviously intentional. (also, Mai is supposed to be younger, more naive, and just generally less mature)

Also, I never saw her move the plot, but I jumped ship when Beast showed up.

[Switchblade]

Actually, as I've heard it, Agito wasn't available for several years. TV-Nihon didn't start subbing Kamen Rider until 555 and a few earlier shows like Ryuki only existed with HK Subs for a long time. The Cruel Angel subs for Agito didn't pop up until sometime in the later 2000s. Most of it and Kuuga's early reputation came from people who had greater access to watch and ability to understand Japanese tv shows.

Also, I'm surprised anyone could muster up enough interest in Koyomi to feel anything about her, given she only showed up for about 1-2 minutes per story arc for most of the series.