[GoseiWonder]

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Originally Posted by XW1n5t0nX

How the hell is that...why did the monster...who thought that...wha?

[Battlizer]

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Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Kiva isn't hailed as a masterpiece now is it?

Well, stupid is stupid no matter how he series is regarded.

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Uh, no.

Then he'd just crash into the planet. He'd maybe make a huge crater or something, but no, he wouldn't destroy our beloved Urf. Urf is huge. Most people cannot fathom the size of our planet, though they may think they do.

Well, I mean...if he had superpowers or something....

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

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Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

No, sorry, you can't pull "b-b-b-b-but Kamen Rider is so sillyz!"

Uh... why not?

Obviously, having never seen these series, I can't speak in detail... But maybe Battlizer thinks Kamen Rider shouldn't always be put through the logical ringer. Maybe he thinks the storytelling in Kamen Rider is more impressionistic and subjective than steadfastly logical and literal.

There's more than one way to experience a story. In fact, I believe there are about 7 billion ways.

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It's called suspension of disbelief. It's the same way I can accept that a man can fly and have super speed, but not that he can juggle moons.

How about planets?

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Logistics still work within absurd concepts. You can visualise someone turning into a superhero. You can visualise them kicking and killing a monster. You cannot, in any way that does not look ridiculously implausible, visualise them destroying a planet by KICKING it.

True, for sure. But I don't know that you can apply the same logistical scale when judging Kamen Rider as you would when judging, say, The Wire. (You kind of even have to adjust the scale between Rider series, TBH.)

I mean, you can. But I don't know that it would result in anything other than frustration.

[Matrixbeast]

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Originally Posted by XW1n5t0nX

Why does the monster not move?
It doesn't try to dodge, it doesn't try to hit him out of it. He just juts out his chest and extends his arms, like he's daring Kuuga to kick him...

[SPLIT LIP]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

Uh... why not?

Because the human brain has standards.

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Obviously, having never seen these series, I can't speak in detail... But maybe Switchblade & Battlizer think Kamen Rider shouldn't be put through the logical ringer like this. Maybe he thinks the storytelling in Kamen Rider is more impressionistic and subjective than steadfastly logical and literal.

Because if they insist on calling those series "masterpieces" then they are inviting them to be judged by "masterpice" standards.

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Are you really trying to tell him he's wrong for liking a series' despite (or because of) its absurdity?

No.

But be realistic. Anyone can like anything they want, but calling Agito a Masterpiece is overkill. Especially when it's as flawed as it is. And ESPECIALLY when he confronts anyone who disagrees with "well, you're the ONLY ONE WHO EVER-."

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How about planets?

Thanks for proving my point!

Now you know why Superman doesn't do stuff like that anymore. It's absurd, and just goes to show the runaway fantasy trap I'm explaining. It's exactly the same as Kuuga destroying a planet.

It's called "too much." Why do I have the feeling if a dehydrated man showed up on your doorstep begging for water, you'd drown him in your bathtub, and when he protests, you'd act like HE was at fault for wanting water in the first place.

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True, for sure. But I don't know that you can apply the same logistical scale when judging Kamen Rider as you would to, say, The Wire.

If you want to keep overselling it, you can.

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I mean, you can. But I don't know that it would result in anything other than frustration.

And now you see.

Again, to refer back to my suspension of disbelief arguement you decidedly ignored in favour of a joke, there's limits. It's the same reason Kamen Rider has cohesive stories, continuity in the series's, and structure at all. You can't ignore every single breach of logic simply because you have to ignore some to accept the concept. That's how stories fall apart and lose quality.

I'm utterly baffled this needs explaining.

[Switchblade]

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Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

About what?

So far all I've done is given sound points supported by in-show events.

Okay, long-ass post about why Agito is one of the best Rider shows ever. Go... now!

Okay, to preface, I think that the early part of the Heisei era, Kuuga-Hibiki 1.0, is probably my favorite era of the franchise, Faiz notwithstanding (and even Faiz was really engaging at first). I like the greater emphasis on serialized storytelling and character development over the victim-of-the-fortnight format the show was stuck with in the late 00s/early 10s. I liked that the shows tried to be more adult and serious, too, often getting kind of dark and twisted along the way.

What initially drew me into Agito was the story. The show doesn't explain what the monsters want or why they're targeting people; instead we get to watch along with Hikawa as he and the other cops try to figure out what's going on. It starts off as something that could be a direct sequel to Kuuga, but the story gets deeper and deeper as we start understanding that the victims all had something in common, although it's not until near the end of the show that the characters and the viewers piece together exactly what's happening. And by that point the show has evolved beyond a supernatural mystery show and into one of the most aggressive creation vs. evolution stories I've ever seen, where god himself is sending angels to kill any person who tries to evolve beyond his preferred form for humanity. I didn't find this a cop-out. Rather, I found it to be an interesting answer to the mysteries that the show had set up and a pretty remarkable way to up the story's stakes by the end.

I liked all three of the main protagonists, but I always view Hikawa as the real main character of the show. Shouchi's happy-go-lucky nature can get grating after awhile, but he remains a sympathetic character throughout. Gills works well as a supporting character, even if his constant bad luck with female guest stars got a little ridiculous by the end. Hikawa, though, is easily the most engaging of the three. He's a guy who wants to get to the truth of what's going on, even when everyone else is trying to get him to give up or just shut up and follow orders. It always impressed me how he never gave up on trying to stop the monsters, no matter how obviously outclassed he was. He was a great character and Shouichi always worked well as his more relaxed counterpart.

The show wasn't perfect - no show is - but I felt that the story was interesting, the mysteries were engaging and largely had satisfying payoffs, and the characters were likable and well realized. I liked watching the characters interact, I liked the action scenes, and I liked feeling like I was piecing things together at the same time as the characters themselves.

[Locke]

YES. EVERYONE LOOK AT THAT CLIP. See how shit Kuuga is! Only joking.

But serious, it's so nice that over like a year I went from the lone disliker to being in the majority on this forum. Fuck Kuuga.

[Battlizer]

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Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

Uh... why not?

Obviously, having never seen these series, I can't speak in detail... But maybe Switchblade & Battlizer think Kamen Rider shouldn't be put through the logical ringer like this. Maybe he thinks the storytelling in Kamen Rider is more impressionistic and subjective than steadfastly logical and literal.

Are you really trying to tell him he's wrong for liking a series' despite (or because of) its absurdity

Well, I don't I want a rider show where hey can pull wacky powers outta nowhere, but if things like kicking a plane into explosion work within the shows universe then it works. I don't think kicking a planet kaboom is automatically nonsensical on principal like say...*insert Kiva thing here*.

I mean I don't know shit about Kuuga, so for all I knew they could've had some kinda DBZ level planetary battle. I mean watching that clip now, I know that's not the case. But back then, ten minutes ago...

[XW1n5t0nX]

Faiz Episode 25
The Kaixa suit on the female body looks a bit odd. I guess it's because it's more slender looking, especially in the neck area. Though I will admit, I think Saeko being Kaixa is quite the nice fit.

Well of course they're interested in the belts. They made them and as the president said, are going to use them for the Orphenoch King. Not to mention that they're attempting to take them away from you on a weekly basis. So yes Takumi, Smart Brain is in fact interested in the belts.

Kusaka you woke up in the best way possible; at the dinner table with dinner already cooked and ready for consumption. You lucky bastard

I thought it was Ryuseijiji School? Did the translators just change it or something? I won't complain to much though, Ryusei is easily to say.

A fork Kusaka? Really?

Something tells me Keitaro has OCD.

How exactly do you even open the elevator doors anyways? Is it like a sensor system? You know like how some public bathrooms have the paper towel dispensers where you just wave your hand under it to get them. Maybe it's something like that, but that's honestly the only idea I have as to how they entered it.

Also I guess they're no longer any significance since the president pretty much just put a hit out on them.

Where the deuce did Kusaka get a flashlight from?

That is a very good question Takumi.

This episode is brought to you by the color purple.

Holy shit it's a mirror monster! Wait, never mind, it's just an Orphenoch. I guess they still had some use for the mirror monster sound effect. Actually that whole speech right there felt like it was lifted right out of Ryuki.

Okay I've been not really caring about this whole time it takes them to get to places thing. But how the hell did Kusaka go from being underneath Smart Brain's building, to being in a stadium? This is a serious what the fuck moment.

I like Kaixa's rider kick more then Faiz's. Mostly because the Kaixa one doesn't have that ridiculous flip transition into the actually kick. Faiz's just doesn't look all that natural too me. How do you go from a front flip into the rider kick position in one single jump? It's just weird to me.

Well episode 25 has gone by after opening my eyes for it. And I will say that this episode while odd as hell, is actually pretty good.

The story this episode was actually really nice, and helped propel the main overarching story forward. It introduced the new belts which are apparently failed results and end up turning the user to ashes. I'm quite anxious to hear about them more, especially since Takumi put one on Takuma. Along with that, I think the discovering of the school under Smart Brain, along with some of the things with the president helped move it all forward. Of course this can be subjective, and is only the way I perceive it. As for the other story with Naoya, it was pretty cool as well.

Speaking of Naoya's story, we see him get more character development in a more clearer form. Going off his words at the end, it does appear as if he's quite happy to give into his monstrous side, but also accepts that he won't be able to throw his humanity. He's a good combination of Yuji and Yuka in my opinion, with just a bit more menace to him. Outside of Naoya, I really don't think much character development was present.

In the action department, we got the usual nice fair. The Yuji VS kid fight while one sided was fairly nice to me. The fight in the school was pretty much the standout though. It was just a straight up brawl all the way around and made for some lovely entertainment. That said though, I think the speed up in it was a bit distracting and at times made everything seem blurry. This could just be me though, so I won't say it's a serious flaw or anything of that sort.

At the end of the episode and with the preview playing, I found 25 to be another good episode. It definitely continued the trend of episodes being consistently good starting with 20, so it's nice to once again be getting good episode after good episode. The story was great, the character development was good though lacking a bit, and the action was fairly nice. 25 was not as good as 24 was, which if you read my review of it know that I claim to be near perfect. 25 is another good episode, nothing too spectacular, but nothing bad. I liked it.

And thus I come to the halfway point of the show. Funny since early in my watching I didn't think I'd stay with the show. It started off as a mixed bag that even though I watched up to 3 episodes daily, I couldn't really get into it. Now I look forward to watching Faiz. The show really seems to have picked up and is delivering on the entertainment front like crazy. Critical wise there are flaws and things that don't quite work. However they are not overwhelming enough to make the show bad. It's as a said, a mixed bag. It was and the beginning and still is.

So 25 in with 25 to go, I do think I'll stick with Faiz here. I have things I don't like, and things aren't all that great in it as a show. But I am consistantly entertained and find enough pros to not rage at it's shortcomings. So yeah, I'm liking Faiz. It isn't the best Rider show I've seen, but it certainly isn't the worst.

P.S. I enjoy Kuuga quite a bit.

[SPLIT LIP]

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Originally Posted by Switchblade

Okay, long-ass post about why Agito is one of the best Rider shows ever. Go... now!

Okay, to preface, I think that the early part of the Heisei era, Kuuga-Hibiki 1.0, is probably my favorite era of the franchise, Faiz notwithstanding (and even Faiz was really engaging at first). I like the greater emphasis on serialized storytelling and character development over the victim-of-the-fortnight format the show was stuck with in the late 00s/early 10s. I liked that the shows tried to be more adult and serious, too, often getting kind of dark and twisted along the way.

That's a great thing.

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What initially drew me into Agito was the story. The show doesn't explain what the monsters want or why they're targeting people; instead we get to watch along with Hikawa as he and the other cops try to figure out what's going on.

This is a great idea taht I REALLY liked until episode twenty when we still hadn't figured out ANYTHING.

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It starts off as something that could be a direct sequel to Kuuga, but the story gets deeper and deeper as we start understanding that the victims all had something in common, although it's not until near the end of the show that the characters and the viewers piece together exactly what's happening.

Bolded my problem.

That's WAY too long to draw that out. That's utter PAIN to draw that out. That's somethign that should've been revealed at the halway mark.

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And by that point the show has evolved beyond a supernatural mystery show and into one of the most aggressive creation vs. evolution stories I've ever seen, where god himself is sending angels to kill any person who tries to evolve beyond his preferred form for humanity.

And this, really, is my biggest problem with the show. Que, Morbo impression:

EVOLUTION DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!!! GOODNIGHT!!!

Evolution is not a preset genetic fucntion that takes over in individuals. Evolution is not a metamorphisis, it is not magic.

Evolution is just a fancy word for adaptation. And it takes millions of years for substancial change. And, it only takes place if it NEEDS TO. Thats why crocodiles have remained relatively unchanged for eons. Evolution is entirely dependant on concious decisions made by MULTIPLE numbers of a species over a period of time. Evolution has no set path, that's why we have different races in animals. That's why humans have different races. Africans have darker skin to protect them from hotter climates and direct sunlight. Caucasians have lighter skin because they evolved in areas with cooler climates.

It's funny how evolution is pretty much the fundamental of life, and yet so few people seem to understand how it works. Evolution, also, is not entirely biological. Because it literally means adaptation, it presents itself in many ways. Certain fish have evolved to build structures to lay their eggs in, but they physically have undergone no change to facilitate this.

In no sense of the word is developing an varied array of unrelated abilities with no practical use ever a sign of evolution. This is something studied and debated even today, but humans don't need to evolve anymore. We have evolved physically into creatures of constant adaptation. Our bodies, rather than undergo physical changes, have given us a brian that allows us to build our way out of problems. To fight animals, we did not grow claws spontainiously, we figured out how to tie a sharp rock to a stick.

THAT is Agito's biggest flaw: it's lack of understanding over it's very own concept. You claim it's creationism verses evolution, but the evolution is represented by powers created by someone, bestowed upon randomly selected individuals. That is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF EVOLUTION.

So the entire point of the show has fallen over dead.

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I didn't find this a cop-out. Rather, I found it to be an interesting answer to the mysteries that the show had set up and a pretty remarkable way to up the story's stakes by the end.

But as I said, it DIDN'T MAKE SENSE.

Because all this culminates in such a ridiculous way, it's all rendered pointless.

I'll get to the character bit in a moment...