[MidoGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

Finished up Go-Busters.

And man. The last stretch of 10 episodes (minus one or two clunkers) is solid gold. Especially the XMas 2-parter and the last 3 episodes. I don't know that I've seen Sentai deal with such heavy themes -- let alone deal with them with such maturity.

It'd be incredibly hard to knock Gokaiger out of the top sentai spot for me, and Gobus doesn't come close as a full series... But the last few episodes of this show are superlative. They might be the best single episodes of Sentai I've ever seen.

And watching the final stretch of episodes makes me question the legitimacy of the retool theory. It's such an organic and natural endpoint for the series that I find it hard to believe it was hastily cobbled together at the midpoint. Sure, the tone of the show changes a bit after episode 28, but I don't know if the direction of the overall plot changed that much.

From what I can tell, the whole idea of this retool was generated by the 4Chan/HJU/GUIS/Twitter toku maven, Lynxara. She's a really smart lady, but she's full of bombast and has an elevated position in fandom that reminds me of a cult leader. I've seen her very convincing arguments busted a few times, and I wouldn't be too surprised if her retool theory is not backed up by any real facts. It may be supposition run amok.

But in the end it doesn't really matter. Retool or no retool, the finale arc reminds me of what Sentai is capable of when it's firing on all cylinders. Impressive stuff.

Yeah the whole retool thing, if it exists, is extremely superficial IMO. Go-Busters from start to finished was Kobayashi's narrative, and never felt like it deviated from her original intents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Gobus 44. The most epic final showdown between giant robots in the entire franchise? I think so. God when this show is good, it's just PERFECTION.

I don't talk about acting often in my episode reviewy things but I really FELT this episode. From the intense silence, to the huge rejoice in the command centre to the screams from the Busters as they take down Messiah. Just wow. It's funny that I've gotten to know these characters so well, that with all the shit going on, nothing truly punctuates the immediacy of the stakes like Jin cracking bad jokes that everyone ignores.

This show may lack a lot of plot focus, but the character focus in this show really is great. Even characters like Hiromu, who has pretty weak/flat development, has grown into such a no nonsense badass I just love how he's realised even if he is as shallow as a shower.

This probably won't be knocking off Goseiger as my favourite sentai, although Gokaiger is fast catching Goseiger up already, but I think Gobus needs to be recognised by just how much it does well, and how great the characters are.

There are lots of shows out there which are lacking as a whole, but are saved by being full of great moments, however, there are very few lacking shows out there which are so utterly defined by such spectacularly perfect standalone moments that an otherwise meh series is impossible to look upon in any light other than utter adoration. And that is exactly how Gobus is for me.

Damn straight it's the best mecha battle ever.

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidoGreen

Yeah the whole retool thing, if it exists, is extremely superficial IMO. Go-Busters from start to finished was Kobayashi's narrative, and never felt like it deviated from her original intents.

The episodes after the Gavan 2-parter are definitely more toyetic, and they definitely feature more stock-Sentai plots. I think that's where some sort of tonal rejiggering is clearly in effect.

But the overarching narrative with Enter, Messiah, and Escape... And the way the characters develop as a result of it... It's so well crafted that I find it hard to believe it wasn't the intended narrative all along.

There is no legitimate evidence of a narrative retool. The notion is pure conjecture.

[Locke]

Gokaiger 09.

So far, the pacing of the tributes I think has been the most hampering. This one is technically a two parter, sort of, but the fact they found the island in the cold open and they have to actually tell us they've travelled around the world takes some of the impact away from what is happening. Thus the rewards are greater for the characters, than the audience.

That isn't mentioning the baffling continuity problems, every Ranger Power Set comes with an instruction to 'defend the planet', but there had never been much continuity between seasons beyond throw away cross over films so I never really bothered to try and comprehend how it fit together as a bigger picture because as far as things were concerned, there didn't appear to be a bigger picture.

But now Gokaiger is smashing EVERYTHING into the same universe it gets really confusing, how can so many polar opposite forces all be functioning in the same reality? And what have things, like say the Power Animals, been doing all this time if they've still been around the whole time? You could say I am overthinking it, and maybe, but we don't let this shit fly for Super Megaforce so I refuse to let it fly for Gokaiger, even if it is the better show overall.

At least we got a good villain again, Bowser looked all manner of derpy, but he knew how to kick some ass. And for once it wasn't at the sacrifice of some memorable changes. Those Turboranger suits are gorgeous, and although this show didn't feature as many flashy changes as in the last episode, they really captured the Gokaiger's personality, even as they swapped powers, really well. Ironically as ever, some of the best fights were in the Gokaiger suits though. I just love how clearly defined the role of each player is on this team, and how well they gel as one.

The only downside about these bits are the suit actors, what is with that thing where Joe holds his head? Have you ever seen him do that when he's not transformed? It just seems odd to give a Ranger an identifiable pose that seems almost entirely unique to the suit actor. Similar things happened with Red Buster and the crossed fist pat thing. Or the way Gosei Black would hold his weapons, and move his body. I'm sure there are others. None of those things translated to the actual character, despite being so identifiable. It's weird.

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Gokaiger 09.

That isn't mentioning the baffling continuity problems, every Ranger Power Set comes with an instruction to 'defend the planet', but there had never been much continuity between seasons beyond throw away cross over films so I never really bothered to try and comprehend how it fit together as a bigger picture because as far as things were concerned, there didn't appear to be a bigger picture.

But now Gokaiger is smashing EVERYTHING into the same universe it gets really confusing, how can so many polar opposite forces all be functioning in the same reality? And what have things, like say the Power Animals, been doing all this time if they've still been around the whole time? You could say I am overthinking it, and maybe, but we don't let this shit fly for Super Megaforce so I refuse to let it fly for Gokaiger, even if it is the better show overall.

My favorite fan explanation for Super Sentai continuity is that every series takes place in its own universe. EXCEPT for the VERSUS movies, which all take place in a universe where every Super Sentai team existed on the same Earth. And that VERSUS universe is where Gokaiger takes place.

The truth is, the Super Sentai production team gives zero fucks about continuity (hence each Dino Sentai team having a different reason for the extinction of the dinosaurs). I think that's what's managed to keep the franchise relatively fresh over the years. Had they been focused on continuity, Sentai would be joyless and fan-minutia-oriented. It would collapse under its own impenetrable weight, much like how the DC and Marvel universes have done.

Which works for me because I think overly intricate continuity between more than a few properties is anathema to good storytelling.

[Battlizer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Lucha

The truth is, the Super Sentai production team gives zero fucks about continuity (hence each Dino Sentai team having a different reason for the extinction of the dinosaurs).

This is hilarious to me, but...

Quote:

I think that's what's managed to keep the franchise relatively fresh over the years. Had they been focused on continuity, Sentai would be joyless and fan-minutia-oriented. It would collapse under its own impenetrable weight, much like how the DC and Marvel universes have done.

Which works for me because I think overly intricate continuity between more than a few properties is anathema to good storytelling.

I generally disagree here. I think a lack of continuity could bring just as many problems as having a shared universe, especially when crossovers are concerned. That and I think continuity can be fun. Aside form the X-Men. They're the only thing that can be stuck in their own universe really.

[Locke]

Yeah speaking personally for me, I love dense continuities. I think comics are a great example of it being done badly, but if I've followed a TV show for eight seasons I want to feel rewarded.

Shows that completely disregard their continuity are usually the swiftest dropped by me, shows like Supernatural where each season seems to disregard the one beforehand so utterly you could watch the episodes out of order and not notice are some of the worst examples of storytelling I can think of.

[Battlizer]

...I think comics handle it well sometimes, especially Marvel nowadays >_>....but this isn't really the topic for that unless I can tie it into Toei Spider-Man or something.

[Kamen Rider Lucha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battlizer

I generally disagree here. I think a lack of continuity could bring just as many problems as having a shared universe, especially when crossovers are concerned. That and I think continuity can be fun. Aside form the X-Men. They're the only thing that can be stuck in their own universe really.

It's not that I don't like shared universes. I do, when well managed and easily containable (like the Marvel Cinematic Universe). Unfortunately, when a universe exists for 50-70 years and is populated by thousands characters who aren't allowed to age (unless you're a Robin)... things become an impenetrable disaster. Writers become minutia managers and not creatives out to express a meaningful idea or tell a good story. It's why, after about 30 years of a universe's existence, the best and most memorable comic book stories tend to take place outside of normal continuity (The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns, All-Star Superman, Watchmen, The Long Halloween, Marvels, The Authority, all of the Ultimate Marvel books, etc...).

Taking the dense continuity approach over the long term, the universe ends up having to reboot every 10-20 years just for things to make any sense at all.

Intensive, intricate, and recursive continuity makes it impossible for new readers to enter those universes. It's why DC and Marvel are, with rare exception, niche imprints that cater to a pre-existing fanbase.

Now, since Sentai is just one show ever year, it might be manageable to create an ongoing continuity. But given how flagrantly these shows disregard logic, I wouldn't want to see them try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah speaking personally for me, I love dense continuities. I think comics are a great example of it being done badly, but if I've followed a TV show for eight seasons I want to feel rewarded.

Shows that completely disregard their continuity are usually the swiftest dropped by me, shows like Supernatural where each season seems to disregard the one beforehand so utterly you could watch the episodes out of order and not notice are some of the worst examples of storytelling I can think of.

I love a densely plotted TV show as much as the next guy, but at the end of 5-10 years, that show exists as a singular product. It doesn't link to hundreds of other stories that might conflict with the telling of or understanding of that story. (Side note: could you imagine how much of a pain it would be if you had to watch all of Firefly and Farscape just to understand a minor event in Battlestar Galactica?)

Sentai, as a format, is kind of a hybrid between comics and American TV in this regard. The logic of linking 38 unrelated super hero teams -- the majority of which still maintain their powers at the end of the series -- would be insane. It could easily lead to the kind of mess American comic books display today. It might not, but I wouldn't want to rock the boat.

[EnerPrime]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah speaking personally for me, I love dense continuities. I think comics are a great example of it being done badly, but if I've followed a TV show for eight seasons I want to feel rewarded.

Shows that completely disregard their continuity are usually the swiftest dropped by me, shows like Supernatural where each season seems to disregard the one beforehand so utterly you could watch the episodes out of order and not notice are some of the worst examples of storytelling I can think of.

The thing is that if Sentai tried to make all teams in continuty every year, they'd either have to start depowering the teams at the end of their seasons PR style, or come up with some other reason that the new villains don't get dogpiled and wiped out by 30+ experienced and full powered teams earlier on.

[Locke]

Yeah but Super Sentai is one big franchise. It isn't like Marvel which has like a thousand publications within it.

Or they could just make sure to close Super Sentai seasons properly, like why even have the Power Animals active at the end of Gaoranger? All it's ever gonna cause is trouble. They seem like pointless creative decisions.