[Matrixbeast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Motivations to me are as much about the mental and emotional drives as they are the goal on the horizon. Emotionally and mentally, we don't understand Micchy, or Kaito or Sid or.... and so on. They all have tangible goals, granted, but the destination should never be the focus it should be why they are trying to get there.

Comparing Bravo and Jonouchi to the footsoldiers of the season just so you think you can disregard valid points when you have no other way to dispute them is straw man debating at its finest.

Yet you disregard multiple character's motivations just to state how we don't understand any characters?
We understand Micchy. We know his goals, yet you make up some bullshit statement of their destination doesn't matter just to disregard any points about him?
You're disregarding valid points by making up a bullshit argument to make the characters sound poorly written.

So, does that make Haruto just as bad, because they focused more on his goal to save Koyumi rather than his actions to do so?

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

Yet you disregard multiple character's motivations just to state how we don't understand any characters?
We understand Micchy. We know his goals, yet you make up some bullshit statement of their destination doesn't matter just to disregard any points about him?
You're disregarding valid points by making up a bullshit argument to make the characters sound poorly written.

So, does that make Haruto just as bad, because they focused more on his goal to save Koyumi rather than his actions to do so?

We know their goals, as I said, but we don't know what drives them too those goals, which I said, and a you're telling me that is not important to know? And with such vitriol, too.

And like Kouta, Haruto made sense because he was such a nice guy (amongst other things already listed as you're like the eighth instance of bring him up for no real reason), it was enough. Maybe Kaito, even Sid can slip under the net in a similarly thin layer of understanding but someone as disgustingly despicable as Micchy at least deserves explanation.

[Matrixbeast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

We know their goals, as I said, but we don't know what drives them too those goals, which I said, and a you're telling me that is not important to know? And with such vitriol, too.

And like Kouta, Haruto made sense because he was such a nice guy (amongst other things already listed as you're like the eighth instance of bring him up for no real reason), it was enough. Maybe Kaito, even Sid can slip under the net in a similarly thin layer of understanding but someone as disgustingly despicable as Micchy at least deserves explanation.

Because it's not important. We know their goals. We see their actions to achieve those goals. Why should we slow the show down just to turn all the characters to the camera and to spout their motivations?

Haruto is brought up because he's disgustingly simple of a character, but suddenly spouting "Protect Koyumi" for 50 episodes is somehow more complex of a character than Micchy's shifting desires of protecting his friends, to following his brother but not wanting to lose his friends, to keeping his friends in the dark, to finding Kouta as an obstacle over all, to losing his crush on Mai, solely because he didn't stop an episode and monologue for 10 minutes about it?

I'm not a even a big fan of Gaim, but my vitriol stems from you taking the barest of character traits we're presented while disregarding everything else that occurs, then call the characters weak.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Emotionally and mentally, we don't understand Micchy, or Kaito or Sid or.... and so on. They all have tangible goals, granted, but the destination should never be the focus it should be why they are trying to get there.

What are you even talking about anymore?

Quote:

Comparing Bravo and Jonouchi to the footsoldiers of the season just so you think you can disregard valid points when you have no other way to dispute them is straw man debating at its finest.

What valid point? All you've done is cover-up the hypocrisy in your logic by stating they should be put on a higher pedestal than all of the poorly developed characters in Wizard because they're riders, even though that fact is completely arbitrary, and nothing in recent Rider shows has suggested that Riders are inherently more important than non-Rider characters.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

What valid point? All you've done is cover-up the hypocrisy in your logic by stating they should be put on a higher pedestal than all of the poorly developed characters in Wizard because they're riders, even though that fact is completely arbitrary, and nothing in recent Rider shows has suggested that Riders are inherently more important than non-Rider characters.

So the franchise being Kamen Rider, named after their protagonists, and the suits and powers are what are used to advertise the series, would still not suggest to you that the Riders are the most important part of their shows?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

I'm not a even a big fan of Gaim, but my vitriol stems from you taking the barest of character traits we're presented while disregarding everything else that occurs, then call the characters weak.

So like what you do with Haruto every single time then?

Also, we clearly look for different things in our shows, I like something with more, not less and there is nothing wrong with asking more no matter the genre. Especially a series hyped as "the reason Rider should just quit now". I don't feel nearly as complacent in what we have as you do, I don't believe what we have is enough, not for something this hyped.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

So the franchise being Kamen Rider, named after their protagonists, and the suits and powers are what are used to advertise the series, would still not suggest to you that the Riders are the most important part of their shows?

Everybody here acknowledges that Riders are the most marketable and enticing part of the franchise. But it doesn't mean that their individual characters, in respect to the story, should be held up to a higher standard than any other character. Riders don't have to do anything but be cool and look cool unless the plot requires them to be explored further. And correction; each Kamen Rider series is named after a singular Rider, not him and his supporting cast of Riders.


It's just a silly argument overall. It's like arguing that Dean Thomas from Harry Potter should be looked at more critically than Harry's Aunt and Uncle because he's a wizard and the entire franchise is about wizardry.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Everybody here acknowledges that Riders are the most marketable and enticing part of the franchise. But it doesn't mean that their individual characters, in respect to the story, should be held up to a higher standard than any other character. Riders don't have to do anything but be cool and look cool unless the plot requires them to be explored further. And correction; each Kamen Rider series is named after a singular Rider, not him and his supporting cast of Riders.


It's just a silly argument overall. It's like arguing that Dean Thomas from Harry Potter should be looked at more critically than Harry's Aunt and Uncle because he's a wizard and the entire franchise is about wizardry.

If this is the kind of response I am getting, I am inclined to agree.

[Matrixbeast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

So like what you do with Haruto every single time then?

And yet notice how I'm not incorrect in my description?
It's a basic and poor argument, but you fall back on it time and time again.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

If this is the kind of response I am getting, I am inclined to agree.

You're the one coming up with BS reasoning to cover up your obvious bias for Wizard. If you like Wizard, that's fine but the same fanboyism you condemn with Gaim is the same fanboyism you are displaying for Wizard.

[Locke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

And yet notice how I'm not incorrect in my description?

But you are incorrect about Haruto?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

You're the one coming up with BS reasoning to cover up your obvious bias for Wizard. If you like Wizard, that's fine but the same fanboyism you condemn with Gaim is the same fanboyism you are displaying for Wizard.

I've given valid in show reasons for why Haruto is great, you've made up fan theories about characters and claim them truth. Also fanboyism is a little strong for me on Wizard, I just think it's become a punching bag for people who don't really know what they are talking about and it's a legitimately great series that deserves a chance for people who have been put off.