[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suzu

So sinking into the water is not on-screen?

Not shown the way it was in the episode, it's not. An on-screen death is when someone dies on-screen. That has not happened yet with Takatora. It didn't happen with Sid either because the camera pans up, but unlike Sid's death, there is actually room for Takatora to have escaped it, albeit narrowly.

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We've never seen a dead body of Hase and Sid- we even had the camera turn away when Sid was squished, so you could also go and say: Well, but he might have escaped...! It might be not as possible as Takatora being resuced from the water, but it's an option you could think of.

No, because the circumstances are quite different. Hase EXPLODES on camera, effectively destroying any chance of his survival outside of total asspulling, and Sid was crushed between rocks, with SEVERAL witnesses surrounding and the only reason the audience personally didn't see it is because it would've been too graphic for the kiddies. Not to mention that getting crushed in between rocks results in a more instant death than drowning, which at very least leaves room for survival. I mean, unless you can find non-farfetched scenarios where Sid survives. The only one I can think of is Sid miraculously falling in between the two spots on either side of the rock with a dent big enough to leave space for something human sized, and then Sid somehow finding his way out from there. Or they can pull a Naruto and find its and bits of pieces of him and try to repair him....somehow. I mean, you really have to stretch to make any chance of him surviving work. You don't have to do that for Takatora.

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Just because the show didn't leave deaths ambiguous so far, it doesn't mean it always has to do so. It's actually a pretty good method to create suspense. Also, we don't even know if the prologue scene is actually the future, or the past, or a parallel universe or who knows what. Remember which groups are fighting which? At this point, why should Micchy join forces with Takatora? Or rather say, why would Takatora fight side by side with a brother that tried to kill him? And why would Kaito and Jonouchi fight Kouta? At the current point, this scene would not make a tiny bit of sense. Besides, Takatoras Sengoku Driver might be broken by now, so how is he supposed to transform into Zangetsu again? I don't think Ryoma will come around and repair it, after trying to kill his former friend a while ago.

Fair enough. I don't think any of us know what the prologue actually is but it's in the show for a reason, I'd think it hold at least some merit, albeit a very small amount. Could just be symbolic of everything that's happened through the show too, so I'll give you that.

But again, I'm not saying that he definitely survived or that he's truly dead, I'm just saying, factoring everything in, I personally find more reason to think he's still alive than dead.

[ElConvoy]

Since noone can prove if Takatora is alive or not this whole discussion is bound to keep going in circles when we keep at it

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElConvoy

Since noone can prove if Takatora is alive or not this whole discussion is bound to keep going in circles when we keep at it

Yeah, we should probably wait for next week's episode

[AkibaSilver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

Yeah, we should probably wait for next week's episode

Nope- it's a preview for the World Cup Movie!

[ElConvoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkibaSilver

Nope- it's a preview for the World Cup Movie!

Nope that is this week. Next week is the continuation of the main story

[AkibaSilver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElConvoy

Nope that is this week. Next week is the continuation of the main story

... I knew that. I think I hear my phone though. Bye.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

One thing I didn't realize that I probably should have sooner...

Kaito asks Kouta if he'll kill Micchy if it gets to the point where he becomes such a soulless monster that he is incapable of being redeemed.


It alludes to when Kouta refused to kill Hase in Episode 14. Hase is basically foreshadowing for Micchy's descent, his literal transformation into an Inves symbolic of Micchy's figurative transformation into one. Hase did it all to regain back his power, exactly like Micchy is doing now. On top of that, he betrays a former partner to regain freedom and power, much like Micchy has been doing.

Hase's entire arc was like a plot summary for Micchy.

[EnerPrime]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaskedRiderAsakura

One thing I didn't realize that I probably should have sooner...

Kaito asks Kouta if he'll kill Micchy if it gets to the point where he becomes such a soulless monster that he is incapable of being redeemed.


It alludes to when Kouta refused to kill Hase in Episode 14. Hase is basically foreshadowing for Micchy's descent, his literal transformation into an Inves symbolic of Micchy's figurative transformation into one. Hase did it all to regain back his power, exactly like Micchy is doing now. On top of that, he betrays a former partner to regain freedom and power, much like Micchy has been doing.

Hase's entire arc was like a plot summary for Micchy.

I wouldn't say it's a summary so much as foreshadowing. But there's one major difference between Mituzane and Hase. Hase was dead the moment he ate that fruit. There's nothing Kouta could have done to save him, at least not without risking other lives. Mituzane doesn't have to die. He can be depowered and locked up, or even talked down into being on the right side again. Heck, talking Micchy into being on humanity's side again would be the first smart and useful thing Mai has done all show.

Hase was inescapably doomed the before Kouta even knew he needed saving. Micchy can still be saved, even if it would be a very hard thing to do.

[MaskedRiderAsakura]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EnerPrime

I wouldn't say it's a summary so much as foreshadowing. But there's one major difference between Mituzane and Hase. Hase was dead the moment he ate that fruit. There's nothing Kouta could have done to save him, at least not without risking other lives. Mituzane doesn't have to die. He can be depowered and locked up, or even talked down into being on the right side again. Heck, talking Micchy into being on humanity's side again would be the first smart and useful thing Mai has done all show.

Hase was inescapably doomed the before Kouta even knew he needed saving. Micchy can still be saved, even if it would be a very hard thing to do.

Well, yeah, not necessarily summary but it's a definite parallel.

I don't know about Micchy, either. He could start seeing reason again, or he could go completely desperate and become an Inves/Overlord himself, at which point somebody would need to put him down. Obviously, Micchy's still human and could theoretically be saved, but I could see him going the same way as Hase too.

I guess of all of the thing's going on in this show, the one thing I'm excited for is to see where they take Micchy.

[Dr Kain]

Finally got around to watching this episode and what the ****?!!!!!!

I have to wait two weeks now for the next part because of another god damned piece of crap alternative crossover not canon story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I would say this officially makes Takatora Nobunaga, but I doubt he is dead. He probably is just staying under the water to see if it will help Bicchy with his self esteem issues.