[ElConvoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheXrosLoaderGen

Eh... I didn't really care all that much for Yoko Minato. I mean, she is a cool character but honestly, her death wasn't something that I cried or felt sad at.

Yes because her death was just completely poorly handled and stupid.

[Scythe]

I'm a fan of the actress that plays her so I nearly reached levels of punch fist through monitor.

[SanoBaron]

I never really saw Kaito as someone who was a villain at all. Anti-hero yes, but not a villain. He never really fought anybody weaker than him unless challenged and one can see that his "the strong should protect the weak" and "I must become the strongest" mentalities both coincide with each other. I mean, he had taken a lot of crap from people who were stronger than him and I can see how he'd be like "no one should have to deal with what I did." and just strove to become the strongest and tell the other strong people to get their act together. To me, Kaito is similar to Kouta, he just took a path that was harder.

[TheXrosLoaderGen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElConvoy

Yes because her death was just completely poorly handled and stupid.

That is also very true.

[ElConvoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanoBaron

I never really saw Kaito as someone who was a villain at all. Anti-hero yes, but not a villain. He never really fought anybody weaker than him unless challenged and one can see that his "the strong should protect the weak" and "I must become the strongest" mentalities both coincide with each other. I mean, he had taken a lot of crap from people who were stronger than him and I can see how he'd be like "no one should have to deal with what I did." and just strove to become the strongest and tell the other strong people to get their act together. To me, Kaito is similar to Kouta, he just took a path that was harder.

Except that this isnt Kaito at all. As early as episode twenty we get exactly what his motivations are in when Ryoma offers him to help Yggdrasil protect civilization.

Kaitos answer to this is that a world that needs prtoecting through lies doesnt need protection at all. If Yggdrasil thinks humanity is not strong enough to pretect itself against the incoming invasion it doesnt deserve to be saved and that this war thats coming is the perfect opportunity the decide who is truly strong and who is weak.

[Talisman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanoBaron

I never really saw Kaito as someone who was a villain at all. Anti-hero yes, but not a villain. He never really fought anybody weaker than him unless challenged and one can see that his "the strong should protect the weak" and "I must become the strongest" mentalities both coincide with each other. I mean, he had taken a lot of crap from people who were stronger than him and I can see how he'd be like "no one should have to deal with what I did." and just strove to become the strongest and tell the other strong people to get their act together. To me, Kaito is similar to Kouta, he just took a path that was harder.

He was hardly a hero either. Look at how he treated the Beat Rider teams that joined his "alliance" in the first arc. It was less an alliance and more of a feudal system with all the "subjects" paying homage to Team Baron in the form of their best dancers. Kaito was genuine with his intentions, but it's the fact that he constantly seemed to go back and forth that makes him so polarizing. I can get a feel for his character, but it's just so inconsistently handled that it takes a few repeat viewings to truly figure out what the hell is going through that single-track mind of his.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheXrosLoaderGen

That is also very true.

Yoko tends to be pretty divisive due to her characterization. I'm pretty sure that it's something lost in the cultural transition/translation that makes her come off as... odd to us outsiders.

[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanoBaron

I never really saw Kaito as someone who was a villain at all. Anti-hero yes, but not a villain.

He was going to DESTROY THE WORLD! There is no way that is anything but villainous. Kaito may have started off as an anti-hero, but by the end of the show he was most definitely a villain.

Also, Yoko was awesome. Shouldn't have died. We'll never get female Riders as a recurring thing if the shows insist on killing all of them.

[2ndSndWve]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElConvoy

Yes because her death was just completely poorly handled and stupid.

It was, really. Otherwise it would've had way more impact.

[SanoBaron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

He was going to DESTROY THE WORLD! There is no way that is anything but villainous. Kaito may have started off as an anti-hero, but by the end of the show he was most definitely a villain.

I'm not going to include helheim induced thought processes into Kaito's character.

and I can see why Kaito believing that a city that protects it's people through lies is a bad thing, considering Kouta also said he'd destroy a rule to protect people. I just don't think overlord baron should also speak for the character of kaito that told Kouta "become Strong Kouta Kazuraba" before Kouta managed the courage to use Kiwami.

they both want the weak to be protected in the end.

and if the mentality induced by helheim's fruit also speaks for others, am I allowed to say Hase always wanted to attack Rat?

[ElConvoy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SanoBaron

I'm not going to include helheim induced thought processes into Kaito's character.

and I can see why Kaito believing that a city that protects it's people through lies is a bad thing, considering Kouta also said he'd destroy a rule to protect people. I just don't think overlord baron should also speak for the character of kaito that told Kouta "become Strong Kouta Kazuraba" before Kouta managed the courage to use Kiwami.

they both want the weak to be protected in the end.

and if the mentality induced by helheim's fruit also speaks for others, am I allowed to say Hase always wanted to attack Rat?

You dont even know how much the fruit actually changed anything in Kaitos character. Youre just assuming thats what it is even if there is no evidence to it at all. hase was changed by the fruit because the fruit overtook his mind. To become an Overlord you have to be able to be stronger than the fruit so you can use the power it grants you to its full potential. And thats what Kaito did. He was always extreme in his methods and this is no exception.

He wasnt talking about the City though he was talking about the WORLD. He wanted the entire planet to be overrun by Helheim so every last human on the planet had to fight for their own survival so that the strong can survive and the weak will perish. Their is no honorable mindset here. He was obsessed with strength to the point that he would sacrifice humanity for it.

This is even supported by the very last scene he has in the show. When we see him as a ghost he talks with Mai and tells her that humanity was always too wek to survive and will soon do the same mistakes again and just wage war against each other causing nothing but pain and suffering. To this Mai replies that even if that happens humanity will just move on step by step learning from their mistakes and Kaito admits once again that she is strong because she can see the potential in humanity he never could because for Kaito their was only one way to save humanity and that was to destroy them so he could rebuild earth as a world only populated by those strong enough.