[Switchblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

By the end of the series, Oren and Zack were the only characters worth rooting for anymore

You're forgetting Chucky, the true hero of Gaim.

[GoldenXtreme]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

You're forgetting Chucky, the true hero of Gaim.

Who could ever forget his heroism! Like the time he did... that thing you know? Personally I thought Rat might have had an even more compelling character arc though. Nearly brought me to tears.

[Matrixbeast]

Chucky was a girl

[GoseiWonder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

You're forgetting Chucky, the true hero of Gaim.

And YOU are forgetting the late, great Kurokage Trooper #37!



We'll always miss you man.

[JusticeMagnum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchblade

You're forgetting Chucky, the true hero of Gaim.

Where's my Chucky Gaiden dammit!

[GoseiWonder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JusticeMagnum

Where's my Chucky Gaiden dammit!

And Chucky gets the standard Peach Lockseed and FINALLY a Ryugen-type plate that isn't used by Bitchy Micchy.

[Makai Knight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Vega

I can see a bit of hatred towards Oren

I have a bit of hatred for those who intentionally assault me with shopping carts because I am not moving fast enough for them even though I am stuck in line just like that bastard.

I have an entire galaxy's worth of hate for that freak named Oren.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

By the end of the series, Oren and Zack were the only characters worth rooting for anymore

Which was Zack? Was he the boxer based one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matrixbeast

Chucky was a girl

Chucky was cheese.

[AgileSiamang7]

For me, Kouta was a refreshing character to follow. He wan't your typical Shonen idiot hero, but he wasn't the smartest person around and that was fine. He couldn't tell that his best friend wanted his head, but really why would anyone suspect their best friend of that? We know because we're the audience and we see the death-glares Micchy shoots his way whenever his back is turned, but for Kouta all gets to see is that his friend's going through some weird time.

Some people have given Kouta crap for not magically finding a way to save Kaito at the end, but if he did then he'd just end up copying the end of Blade, since they were both Overlords at that point and Kouta would just be an Orange Kenzaki then. Some people say that Kouta didn't develop much by the end, but what else would you describe starting off just wanting to get a job, and then finding yourself the least asshole-ish person trying to keep humanity from going extinct (well, least asshole-ish and strong, as Zack isn't an asshole). When Sid tries to break him down, he stand by his morals and tells him to fuck off. When Yggdrasil would rather take the easy way out (as Ryouma's attitude makes it clear that he could save more of humanity if he wanted to, but he doesn't), he calls them out on it and destroys their city nuke, survives their attempts on him, and does what he can to keep the city worth coming back to when it's evacuated. The only way I can see Kouta having not developed as a character is if you treating him becoming a god as just him finally getting a job, ignoring how changed and distant he is once he claims that fruit.

Having characters like Zack actually becoming important later down the line was nice and refreshing, compared to the DBZ style of writing many shows, animes, and comics sadly follow of introducing characters that just fill the background or where useful before the writer's new favorites stole the scene (Rock Lee being pushed onto the bench, the until recently benching of non-existent Wally West, etc.). I've seen tons of people hate on Kanon for being useless, but at least in the Gaim, while you may hate the dance theme and activities in the show, at least the side characters had something to do, rather than just exist and take up a bed in Takeru's home.

As much as I love Gaim, it's not at the top of my list, but it definitely deserves the love it gets. The tie-ins, Taisens, and crossovers can be a bit much, but not enough for me think badly of the show.

[Powerman293]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoseiWonder

And YOU are forgetting the late, great Kurokage Trooper #37!



We'll always miss you man.

Played by Kaido from Faiz?

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgileSiamang7

For me, Kouta was a refreshing character to follow. He wan't your typical Shonen idiot hero, but he wasn't the smartest person around and that was fine. He couldn't tell that his best friend wanted his head, but really why would anyone suspect their best friend of that? We know because we're the audience and we see the death-glares Micchy shoots his way whenever his back is turned, but for Kouta all gets to see is that his friend's going through some weird time.

You know, I've seen plenty of people give Kouta crap for that, and for all the problems I have with him, I've gotta agree with you here. Sure, it can be frustrating as a viewer, but it makes sense he'd trust Micchi so much given he only sees him when he's explicitly putting up an act. It also reinforces Kouta's inherent goodness, making him look that much more heroic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgileSiamang7

Some people have given Kouta crap for not magically finding a way to save Kaito at the end, but if he did then he'd just end up copying the end of Blade, since they were both Overlords at that point and Kouta would just be an Orange Kenzaki then.

While it would be repetitive, there are worse endings to copy. It doesn't help that in a lot of ways, he already was Orange Kenzaki. They're both really nice, idealistic main characters in a show filled with less consistently heroic Riders, and both spend a fair bit of time talking about fighting fate, which is why it's extremely annoying that Kouta never really does manage to change that much, and never seems to acknowledge that he doesn't.

Kenzaki's idea of fighting fate is to punch what amounts to God in whatever qualifies as the face for a weird 2001 monolith thing, and refuse to kill someone who's become his friend because he believes Hajime has a right to live a normal, human life, even if he isn't human.

Kouta's idea of fighting fate is to listen to whatever a guy who's basically the Devil tells him to do, except for the part about destroying the existing world. So I guess at the very least, he got that part right. But it's more Sagara's fault for thinking he would go along with that part when Kouta makes it crystal clear early on the whole reason he wants the Fruit is to stop that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgileSiamang7

Some people say that Kouta didn't develop much by the end, but what else would you describe starting off just wanting to get a job, and then finding yourself the least asshole-ish person trying to keep humanity from going extinct (well, least asshole-ish and strong, as Zack isn't an asshole). When Sid tries to break him down, he stand by his morals and tells him to fuck off. When Yggdrasil would rather take the easy way out (as Ryouma's attitude makes it clear that he could save more of humanity if he wanted to, but he doesn't), he calls them out on it and destroys their city nuke, survives their attempts on him, and does what he can to keep the city worth coming back to when it's evacuated. The only way I can see Kouta having not developed as a character is if you treating him becoming a god as just him finally getting a job, ignoring how changed and distant he is once he claims that fruit.

See, that's exactly what I meant when I said the characters give the illusion of development. You're describing the situations Kouta finds himself in and how different they are, but you're not saying anything about his personality. He never learns anything or makes any significant growth. Sticking to your beliefs even when things look bleak would be a form of arc, but the problem with that is that Kouta actually gives up on those ideals rather frequently.

Consider how he spends like 5 episodes believing the Overlords can be talked to, and then (admittedly pretty correctly) decides it isn't happening and just sort of decides to kill them like any other Invess, without ever showing a hint of regret that things turned out the way they did. That attitude culminates in him killing Kaito, who's a lot less of a lost cause than someone like Demushu, and while he's clearly sad it happened, he once again doesn't really seem to feel like it could've turned out some other way, which seems blatantly against both his character and the message the show seems to want to convey.

As a counterpoint, consider how Micchi ends up redeeming himself. Kouta shows an unwavering belief that Micchi is ultimately a good person and can change, to the point of letting himself get stabbed clean through the stomach just to rip the Yomotsuheguri Lockseed off his belt before it kills him. It ends up being explicitly because of that faith in him that Micchi realizes what an idiot he's been and start to atone for his actions.

It's a touching scene, and it feels way more in line with the central themes of the show than the actual ending.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgileSiamang7

As much as I love Gaim, it's not at the top of my list, but it definitely deserves the love it gets. The tie-ins, Taisens, and crossovers can be a bit much, but not enough for me think badly of the show.

Funnily enough, I actually feel Gaim had some of the better crossover stuff. It's not great, but something like Kamen Rider War is a big improvement on stuff the first two Superhero War movies.

It's not a crossover, but I also think the Gaim movie was pretty solid, and showed Kouta in a really good light, compared to a lot of the show.

A lot of Gaim fans treat Urobuchi as the One True Writer, but I think whenever other writers were handling the characters, they did just as good a job.