[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

I'd argue Shinnosuke's dad was done better, as it was established rather early on that his dad's death was Shinnosuke's main motivation for becoming a police officer. Takeru's mother has been rather insignificant, but hinted at.

Yeah, but it was established in all of like, one throwaway line. Which is what I'm saying. Obviously I don't know what kind of payoff any of this will have, but it seems a little unreasonable to act like Takeru hearing his mom's voice briefly like 3 times is some kind of supreme annoyance. There's just so many better things to whine about, you know?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpsilonX

Well, I'm still enjoying the central plot of the show - Ganma world, Adel, Ganmeizers, Eadith, etc. But the random nonsense is getting out of hand, and too many things have been going on that have absolutely no effect on the story. Like, why did we get that episode where Takeru still insists on using Grateful Damashii, other than to say "hey look kids, we still like the heroic eyecons and you should too, so go buy them"? He still uses Mugen 95% of the time.

I guess I just don't don't have a problem with that kind of thing. You know, like a lot of you are complaining that the show is wasting time with standard VotW plots but I don't really see why you need a reason to show your hero helping people out. I think it's actually really fitting for the kind of character Takeru is that he'd have half a week left and still be bothered to help some random person out. Same deal with that episode where refuses to accept that the heroic Eyecons are last quarter's toys.

I consider it less a failure of the show to focus on the Plot and more the show not trying to focus on the Plot. I really don't feel every show has to be hyper-serialized, and for that matter, the VotW stuff directly connects to the main Plot, so this isn't even the worst example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpsilonX

This is a show that had a lot of good ideas and just didn't know how to implement them. Why would they introduce Igor and Deep Connect so early into the series, only for it to not show up again until the very end? And why haven't they fully explained why Eadith was using two identities? What was his real goal?

I will more or less agree with all this though. Ghost has been pretty messy. It's the flaw that hangs over the whole show more than anything else. I'll go ahead and add in that if feels super weird to have Javert pop up like once every ten whole episodes mostly just to remind you he exists. You'd think whatever arc they're doing with him could've been dealt with 20 episodes ago. Maybe there's a reason they've kept him around to the very end, but that's another thing that nobody will know until the show's over.

[TheGloryXros]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I guess I just don't don't have a problem with that kind of thing. You know, like a lot of you are complaining that the show is wasting time with standard VotW plots but I don't really see why you need a reason to show your hero helping people out. I think it's actually really fitting for the kind of character Takeru is that he'd have half a week left and still be bothered to help some random person out. Same deal with that episode where refuses to accept that the heroic Eyecons are last quarter's toys.

I consider it less a failure of the show to focus on the Plot and more the show not trying to focus on the Plot. I really don't feel every show has to be hyper-serialized, and for that matter, the VotW stuff directly connects to the main Plot, so this isn't even the worst example.

While I will agree that this isn't the WORST example of a VotW Episode(it did at least not COMPLETELY focus on that kid, and his problem did tie into the main conflict of the Episode & the entire plan of the Ganma), regardless, the issue isn't that he's helping people. That's nice & all, but this stuff shouldn't be consistent within the WRAP-UP OF THE SERIES. This is around when this show should be coming to a closure somehow. The stakes should be raising, and more importantly concerning this discussion, we should be wrapping up the character development of our main character. If our last Episodes are still centered around helping other people, then that takes away time for our main character to grow. And no, this isn't just a problem Ghost has, but many other Kamen Rider Series also have this issue. (Though at least most of those didn't run VotW stuff through to their last couple Episodes...)

I know it's kinda a low blow to bring up another Rider Series in comparison to this, but I just gotta say this. Know why Gaim did so well with its portrayal of story & characterization? Because it literally had little-to-NO VotW Episodes. The story was literally written to focus around our MAIN CHARACTERS ONLY. This is something I really wish other Kamen Rider Series would follow suit with in their storytelling format. It forces the writing to actually develop our lead protagonist, instead of having them be just a frickin preacher towards someone else and make them end up looking like a Gary Stu. Ghost on the other hand still has us dealing with lame VotW stuff when this show's gonna end in less than 10 Episodes....and Takeru is STILL a stick in the mud in terms of his characterization, and due to all these VotW Episodes, he's now become a dull Gary Stu character with no character development under his belt. This is why, like I said in a previous Episode thread, that I REALLY wished that the Episodes after Mugen's debut would revolve around Takeru HIMSELF actually emphasizing & feeling each of the emotions that Mugen Soul uses. This would be opportunity for CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!! But nope, instead, Takeru is simply observing other people express these emotions & preaching to them on what they should & shouldn't do....

SIGH.....I'm sorry this turned into such a rant, but I'm just sorely disappointed in how this Series has gotten. I had high anticipation for this show when I first saw Ghost's appearance & Form Changes(I still say Ghost has one of the best designs of recent times), but....the storytelling has gotten REALLY bad to where I can't defend it at this point.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

That's nice & all, but this stuff shouldn't be consistent within the WRAP-UP OF THE SERIES. This is around when this show should be coming to a closure somehow. The stakes should be raising, and more importantly concerning this discussion, we should be wrapping up the character development of our main character.

The show is coming to a closure. The stakes are raising. They've been raising. This was likely the last VotW plot you're going to have to suffer through. There's at least 4 whole episodes left. That is more time than it might sound like to wrap everything up in a nice little bow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

I know it's kinda a low blow to bring up another Rider Series in comparison to this, but I just gotta say this. Know why Gaim did so well with its portrayal of story & characterization?

No I don't. I've been puzzling that for two years now, I'm literally at the 34th episode of a rewatch I've been doing to see if it makes more sense then I remember and I still think Gaim's writing was, at the absolute best, no less sloppy than Ghost's. Feel free to just ignore the rest of my post since I'm obviously crazy, but Gaim is not the gold standard other shows should be held up against.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

Because it literally had little-to-NO VotW Episodes. The story was literally written to focus around our MAIN CHARACTERS ONLY.

It forces the writing to actually develop our lead protagonist, instead of having them be just a frickin preacher towards someone else and make them end up looking like a Gary Stu.

Kouta and Takeru are actually really similar characters though. They're both kinda doofy generically nice people who grow into more larger than life, heroic characters over the course of the series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

This is why, like I said in a previous Episode thread, that I REALLY wished that the Episodes after Mugen's debut would revolve around Takeru HIMSELF actually emphasizing & feeling each of the emotions that Mugen Soul uses. This would be opportunity for CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!!!

That's exactly what they did!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

But nope, instead, Takeru is simply observing other people express these emotions & preaching to them on what they should & shouldn't do....

He's not preaching when he gives those speeches, he's saying what he's learned from his experiences with others. That's what the whole showdown with Adel a couple episodes back was all about. It's what the whole show is about. He's had all these crazy adventures and he's learned stuff. He's been learning stuff since the earliest episodes. That is exactly what character development is all about. I know it's easy to go "well he's a generic nice guy at the start, and he's a generic nice guy at the end," and say that he's bland but it just isn't the case because there's more to it than that.

I swear, it's literally every year with the "main character is bland" crap. I hope for your sakes Ex-Aid turns out to be the most three-dimensional character ever put to television, because sometimes I swear you people won't be satisfied with anything less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

SIGH.....I'm sorry this turned into such a rant

Likewise! I know that came off really confrontational (especially that last bit), but I actually do understand why Ghost has been so disappointing to people, honest. I just think sometimes people get so wrapped up in not liking something they sort of lose sight of any qualities that may be there.

Liking things is a lot more fun than not liking things, in my experience, but I guess it's a little arrogant to ask people to reevaluate their entire opinion on a show 40 episodes in.

[Blade Fang]

Ghost Final Episode in Episode 50. This series is almost end but how Makoto obtain Tutankhamun Ghost Eyecon and Houdini Ghost Eyecon is still unknown. Why they not give explanation about Makoto's past when he obtain Tutankhamun and Houdini?

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade Fang

Ghost Final Episode in Episode 50. This series is almost end but how Makoto obtain Tutankhamun Ghost Eyecon and Houdini Eyecon is still unknown. Why they not give explanation about Makoto's past when he obtain Tutankhamun and Houdini?

Because that means they'd have to explain Newton back in episode 4, which the writers probably aren't going to even consider

[Blade Fang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Because that means they'd have to explain Newton back in episode 4, which the writers probably aren't going to even consider

Newton Ghost Eyecon origin also still unknown. How, when, and where Newton Ghost Eyecon created is become mystery. Newton Ghost Eyecon in Drive Episode 48 already in mafia guy possession (I am forget his name but his actor portay Kamen Rider Raia)

Some Ghost Eyecon such as Goemon, Ryoma, Himiko, Grimm, and Sanzo also obtained by Saionji off-screen but I would be assume Saionji can obtain five Ghost Eyecons by his Prototype Ghost Driver in his briefcase.....

[henshinzero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade Fang

Ghost Final Episode in Episode 50. This series is almost end but how Makoto obtain Tutankhamun Ghost Eyecon and Houdini Ghost Eyecon is still unknown. Why they not give explanation about Makoto's past when he obtain Tutankhamun and Houdini?

Maybe they'll explain that in Specter's V-Cinema.

[Fish Sandwich]

Guys, obviously Newton, Tutankhamen, and Houdini all came from the same place Saionji got his five Eyecons. Duh.

... I'm not actually sure if I'm being sarcastic or not. I guess this is just the difference between someone who can like Ghost and someone who can't. I don't even fully understand why details like that matter. Obviously it'd be nice to have a full explanation but it's not like it's a plot hole or anything.

Admittedly, the writers probably shouldn't be thinking the same way as me about their own show.

[Blade Fang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by henshinzero

Maybe they'll explain that in Specter's V-Cinema.

This could be possible too...especially in recent years, we has secondary Riders V-Cinema (Baron and Mach)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Guys, obviously Newton, Tutankhamen, and Houdini all came from the same place Saionji got his five Eyecons. Duh.

... I'm not actually sure if I'm being sarcastic or not. I guess this is just the difference between someone who can like Ghost and someone who can't. I don't even fully understand why details like that matter. Obviously it'd be nice to have a full explanation but it's not like it's a plot hole or anything.

Admittedly, the writers probably shouldn't be thinking the same way as me about their own show.

Sometime, I am has feeling about a mafia guy steal Newton Ghost Eyecon from Saionji....

Its really interesting about each Ghost Eyecon's origin and explanation. I am really curious to Ghost Eyecon Origin because each Ghost Eyecon has special item to release them (example: Edison's lightbulb, Robin Hood's bow, Billy the Kid's cowboy hat, etc..) and needed special person who has strong feeling to Heroic Soul....

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Guys, obviously Newton, Tutankhamen, and Houdini all came from the same place Saionji got his five Eyecons. Duh.

... I'm not actually sure if I'm being sarcastic or not. I guess this is just the difference between someone who can like Ghost and someone who can't. I don't even fully understand why details like that matter. Obviously it'd be nice to have a full explanation but it's not like it's a plot hole or anything.

Admittedly, the writers probably shouldn't be thinking the same way as me about their own show.

I've said it before to you, the Newton Eyecon coming out of nowhere is bullshit because A: bad writing and B: Ghost had to retrieve it from Ganma. In the SAME EPISODE HE USED NEWTON, he claimed he will never use an Eyecon that a human had to die for. It's not only contradictory, but also makes no sense. If Takeru even IMPLIED he got the Eyecon back in his unnecessary Ghost cameo, it wouldn't have bothered me as much, but he doesn't. It's such an asspull that even Jojo's Bizarre Adventure would smack the writers in the face