[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Again, I watch snippets because I still had hope. And I ALWAYS watch form debuts. When I mocked the Mugen catchphrase, it's not because of delivery, but how it doesn't make sense to say that before a finishing move and what not. Maybe I'm just taking a show about transforming superheroes too seriously, but I just find that line narmy

Ah, that's a bit different then. You're still being kind of deprived of context though, right? Did you watch the whole episode? Because Takeru explicitly explains what he means when he says that both right before he comes back and at the end of the episode. Not to mention how the idea had been building up throughout the show. The corn factor may be high, but it absolutely makes sense for him to say it when he does.

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Ah, that's a bit different then. You're still being kind of deprived of context though, right? Did you watch the whole episode? Because Takeru explicitly explains what he means when he says that both right before he comes back and at the end of the episode. Not to mention how the idea had been building up throughout the show. The corn factor may be high, but it absolutely makes sense for him to say it when he does.

Again, only snippets, so no. However, as Ace Attorney proves, if something is stupid but makes sense, it's still stupid

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Again, only snippets, so no. However, as Ace Attorney proves, if something is stupid but makes sense, it's still stupid

As stupid as fighting crime with toy cars, using fruit as armor, never shutting up about being the last hope, never shutting up about friendship, underpants...

I just don't feel that's a valid complaint when talking about Kamen Rider. "Stupid but makes sense" is pretty much its entire mission statement.

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

As stupid as fighting crime with toy cars, using fruit as armor, never shutting up about being the last hope, never shutting up about friendship, underpants...

I just don't feel that's a valid complaint when talking about Kamen Rider. "Stupid but makes sense" is pretty much its entire mission statement.

Let me say it differently. There's a limit of stupidity I can take, and Ghost's more silly tone doesn't compensate like how touching Drive was or how surprisingly dark Fourze could get, and Gaim being Gaim. I'll give you OOO as I don't like it though

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Let me say it differently. There's a limit of stupidity I can take, and Ghost's more silly tone doesn't compensate like how touching Drive was or how surprisingly dark Fourze could get, and Gaim being Gaim.

Ghost has not been more silly than any other show. It's been touching and it's been dark too, and it's been just as much of a writing clusterf*** as Gaim, at that, so I'm still not sure what your problem is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

I'll give you OOO as I don't like it though

Well crap, now I'm curious what your problems with OOO are too. I think that show was great and unlike with Ghost I'm not alone in thinking that.

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Ghost has not been more silly than any other show. It's been touching and it's been dark too, and it's been just as much of a writing clusterf*** as Gaim, at that, so I'm still not sure what your problem is.



Well crap, now I'm curious what your problems with OOO are too. I think that show was great and unlike with Ghost I'm not alone in thinking that.

Onari. Onari alone is more silly than most Rider characters, and I also remember being frustrated by Ghost with the Saionji crap. "ONIIIIIIICHAN don't trust him desu uguuuuu" IMMA TRUST HIM!
Alain reveals he could have gotten Kanon out of the Eyecon meaning Makoto only had to ask "You don't understand" OOOOH, VERY CLEVER WRITERS. NO EXPLANATION BUT INSTEAD SOMETHING THAT IRKS ME THE MOST. CLAP CLAP INDEED. Don't get me started on Newton's Eyecon...

Honestly...It just bored me, I didn't click with the characters, I tried rewatching it in January, but after 14 episode, I couldn't go further. I also don't like the idea of a hobo Rider.

Time for an actual question!Would another attorney Rider be cool? Kitaoka/Zolda didn't really do much with the lawyer thing, and as KR's doing policemen, detectives and now doctors, attorneys could be interesting. Especially considering how popular Ace Attorney is in Japan

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Onari. Onari alone is more silly than most Rider characters,

Again, I flatly disagree with this. Guys like Bravo and everyone in Drive were loudly mugging for the camera well before he was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

"ONIIIIIIICHAN don't trust him desu uguuuuu" IMMA TRUST HIM!

That's Makoto's entire arc though. He's insanely stubborn and cares about his friends to the point where he refuses to listen to his friends. You complain the characters aren't fleshed out and then complain when they give the characters flaws.

It's the same deal with Takeru being passive too. He doesn't have any clue how to find Eyecons beyond waiting for Gramps to tell him where one is, or waiting for the Ganma to start doing stuff. Not to mention one of those 20-ish day gaps in the first arc is a direct result of him moping over Specter kicking the crap out of him and stealing Edison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Alain reveals he could have gotten Kanon out of the Eyecon meaning Makoto only had to ask "You don't understand"

He never says anything that explicit. I think the implication is that he means he could make her a Ganma, the way they are. I believe Makoto's response was actually "not like that" followed by "you wouldn't understand." He wants her to be properly alive again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Don't get me started on Newton's Eyecon...

Okay, instead I'll just point out the Billy the Kid, Goemon, Ryoma, Himiko, and Specter and Necrom's Eyecons (except Nobunaga) all just existed too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Honestly...It just bored me, I didn't click with the characters, I tried rewatching it in January, but after 14 episode, I couldn't go further.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't make it horrible. Bad, maybe, but not THAT bad. I'm sorry I dragged this out so long, but I get so confused whenever someone talks about Ghost like it's the biggest piece of trash ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Time for an actual question!Would another attorney Rider be cool?

If it's anything like Ryuki world in Decade, absolutely not!

No but really, Kitaoka was cool and the concept is decent enough to work in a number of different ways. I'm all for it if it's good.

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Again, I flatly disagree with this. Guys like Bravo and everyone in Drive were loudly mugging for the camera well before he was.



That's Makoto's entire arc though. He's insanely stubborn and cares about his friends to the point where he refuses to listen to his friends. You complain the characters aren't fleshed out and then complain when they give the characters flaws.

It's the same deal with Takeru being passive too. He doesn't have any clue how to find Eyecons beyond waiting for Gramps to tell him where one is, or waiting for the Ganma to start doing stuff. Not to mention one of those 20-ish day gaps in the first arc is a direct result of him moping over Specter kicking the crap out of him and stealing Edison.



He never says anything that explicit. I think the implication is that he means he could make her a Ganma, the way they are. I believe Makoto's response was actually "not like that" followed by "you wouldn't understand." He wants her to be properly alive again.



Okay, instead I'll just point out the Billy the Kid, Goemon, Ryoma, Himiko, and Specter and Necrom's Eyecons (except Nobunaga) all just existed too.



Fair enough, but that still doesn't make it horrible. Bad, maybe, but not THAT bad. I'm sorry I dragged this out so long, but I get so confused whenever someone talks about Ghost like it's the biggest piece of trash ever.



If it's anything like Ryuki world in Decade, absolutely not!

No but really, Kitaoka was cool and the concept is decent enough to work in a number of different ways. I'm all for it if it's good.

True, but Gaim and Drive compensated their sillyness for enjoyable moments, likeable characters, and great stories, something I personally can't say I experienced too well in Ghost

I GET it's his arc. I just think it's fucking stupid. Takeru blatantly said he's willing to help, but nooooo trust the guy who can't be trusted

I'd be constantly trying to find Specter in that scenario as my fucking life would be on the line, not go all "Ohhh, I got beaten up and he made me saaaaaaaad" for 40 days. 40 fucking days. I don't believe Takeru is the kind of character to mope around that long.

That's then either shoddy memory of mine or TV Nihon's translation

I've explained to you before that Newton pisses me off because it potentially conflicts with Takeru's ideals, not to mention it screwed with Drive's story, and I LOVED Drive's story. Also, we SAW Billy the Kid get turned into an Eyecon, by Takeru's method of collecting Eyecons



I never said OOO was terrible or even called it bad, I just said I didn't like it, you foolish fool who foolishly thinks of foolish statements only foolish fools would foolishly make

Ugh. I WANT to like Decade. The concept is something I like, I like the suits (I know, I'm a freak) but the characters and butchering of previous seasons...Urghhhh

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

True, but Gaim and Drive compensated their sillyness for enjoyable moments, likeable characters, and great stories, something I personally can't say I experienced too well in Ghost

And I find all three of those things to be in Ghost, so while that is, once again, a completely valid reason to dislike the show, I don't think it's grounds to call it crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

I GET it's his arc. I just think it's fucking stupid. Takeru blatantly said he's willing to help, but nooooo trust the guy who can't be trusted

Hey, remember when Kouta couldn't figure out Micchi was trying to kill him for like 15 episodes? What an IDIOT, right? Way to drag that one out, writers. Sure is handy Bravo never happened to be around for a fight scene with Zangetsu Shin until the plot decided Kouta should know he was a fake. They don't even set it up, Oren just jumps into frame in the middle of a scene for no reason other than to point that out.

I just said all that, but guess what? I forgive it. I don't think that's a big enough problem to hurt Gaim and it's only written like that because it serves its purpose. But when you go looking for holes in the logic of pretty much any show you're going to find them. That's just how it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

Takeru blatantly said he's willing to help, but nooooo trust the guy who can't be trusted

And he thinks Takeru is a wimpy idiot at that point, which is something I think you have in common with him. What good is his help? I know Saionji looks like a bad guy, and is, but Makoto doesn't, because he was being irrational. People are like that sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

I'd be constantly trying to find Specter in that scenario as my fucking life would be on the line, not go all "Ohhh, I got beaten up and he made me saaaaaaaad"

Well I'm glad you're so tough then! As far as Takeru's concerned, a guy who wants his Eyecons and can completely wipe the floor with him in a fight to get those Eyecons just showed up, so it seems natural enough to doubt your own chances at that point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

40 fucking days.

It was actually about 14, which I think is a notable difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

I don't believe Takeru is the kind of character to mope around that long.

Well then as someone who's put an egregious amount of thought into this show since I found out it was apparently s***, and as someone who can actually remember most of the events, let me assure you self-doubt was the crux of his character throughout those first 11 episodes. You can call it dumb if you want, just like with Makoto, but it's very much in character. He's only human. He can't be all smiles all the time and the nature of his situation weighs down on him a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Annuga

I've explained to you before that Newton pisses me off because it potentially conflicts with Takeru's ideals...Also, we SAW Billy the Kid get turned into an Eyecon, by Takeru's method of collecting Eyecons.

AHA! Little did you know I was merely baiting you with that remark (actually I forgot myself until I went to check right after I posted that). If Billy the Kid was summoned that way, who the hell's to say Newton and everyone else weren't too? Specter and Saionji could have easily been running around before and during the first 3 episodes getting Eyecons the same way. From there you can assume Yurusen got it from Eadith and just like that, you've cracked the mystery not even Shinnosuke could solve. You can still complain about them not explaining it in detail, but it makes sense.

[Annuga]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

And I find all three of those things to be in Ghost, so while that is, once again, a completely valid reason to dislike the show, I don't think it's grounds to call it crap.


Hey, remember when Kouta couldn't figure out Micchi was trying to kill him for like 15 episodes? What an IDIOT, right? Way to drag that one out, writers. Sure is handy Bravo never happened to be around for a fight scene with Zangetsu Shin until the plot decided Kouta should know he was a fake. They don't even set it up, Oren just jumps into frame in the middle of a scene for no reason other than to point that out.

I just said all that, but guess what? I forgive it. I don't think that's a big enough problem to hurt Gaim and it's only written like that because it serves its purpose. But when you go looking for holes in the logic of pretty much any show you're going to find them. That's just how it is.



And he thinks Takeru is a wimpy idiot at that point, which is something I think you have in common with him. What good is his help? I know Saionji looks like a bad guy, and is, but Makoto doesn't, because he was being irrational. People are like that sometimes.


Well I'm glad you're so tough then! As far as Takeru's concerned, a guy who wants his Eyecons and can completely wipe the floor with him in a fight to get those Eyecons just showed up, so it seems natural enough to doubt your own chances at that point.


It was actually about 14, which I think is a notable difference.


Well then as someone who's put an egregious amount of thought into this show since I found out it was apparently s***, and as someone who can actually remember most of the events, let me assure you self-doubt was the crux of his character throughout those first 11 episodes. You can call it dumb if you want, just like with Makoto, but it's very much in character. He's only human. He can't be all smiles all the time and the nature of his situation weighs down on him a lot.




AHA! Little did you know I was merely baiting you with that remark (actually I forgot myself until I went to check right after I posted that). If Billy the Kid was summoned that way, who the hell's to say Newton and everyone else weren't too? Specter and Saionji could have easily been running around before and during the first 3 episodes getting Eyecons the same way. From there you can assume Yurusen got it from Eadith and just like that, you've cracked the mystery not even Shinnosuke could solve. You can still complain about them not explaining it in detail, but it makes sense.

Did I call it crap?

I feel like this doesn't compare as Kouta and Bitchy Mitchy are established to being friends before Sour Grapes happens in the show itself for a good chunk , while Makoto decided to trust the guy who doesn't clearly have Eyecons

And I'm not judging you. I sure as hell don't like OOO, but I get it's popular and would even recommend it to people. One man's trash might be another man's treasure and all

Still. Who would you rather join forces with? The untrustworthy guy who can make weak ass mooks, or the guy who WANTS to help you, CLEARLY has Eyecons and has beaten those mooks

The following point is moot because we're probably talking about a different thing. I REMEMBER there was a 40 day break in between episodes.

Takeru had been shown to be a cheery character, and as I was thinking of a different episode, I was right in all seriousness, it's quite jarring to see such a sudden change in character, like Kouta going from cheery guy to PTSD because of Zangetsu

HOLD IT! You said that because we saw Billy the kid, it's safe to assume that the other Eyecons were made like this, correct. Well in that case, you're forgetting a major detail...WE know it, but Takeru DOESN'T! HE never saw it! And lack of evidence to the former isn't evidence for the latter! And that STILL doesn't make me redeem the Drive epilogue!

Something tells me we should stop for the sake of the other members Great debate man, I like a good argument, especially consistent ones