[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by GreenPsychoRanger

Please do not compare this to Wizard. Wizard didn't jump around and leave tons of plot holes in their story. Sure it had some, but not as many as this.

It also had a lot less creative vision. Ghost has had a ton of surprisingly crazy ideas, which is why so many people are disappointed with the execution (I think?).

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Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

First off, the heck is with Kanon being able to take out Ganma grunts with mere palm taps...? C'MON NOW...

That was really dumb but I kind of brushed it off because it seems like pretty classic Kamen Rider to let a side character get in on the action for a second. She also only hits those two dudes, and only with help from Onari, so it's not like she was suddenly revealed to be a master martial artist or something.

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Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

I mean, then why did it act like it did when first introduced, where it just kept challenging Makoto to battle? It's just weird, and not properly explained.

Because it didn't have those emotions at first. It seems clear enough to me. The clone was created from the Deep Specter Eyecon and when Makoto gets into fights with him as Deep Specter it likely further "completes" the clone. Hence why it becoming "the real one" coincided with him getting his own Deep form.

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Originally Posted by TheGloryXros

Not to mention he frickin ONE-SHOT Adel at the end, instead of it being a grand fight to at least redeem the rushed conversion.....SIGH....

It was a really cool shot though! I'd prefer that to a drawn-out 3 minute fight scene myself, especially since the big climax is coming next episode.

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Originally Posted by EpsilonX

They were supposed to show evil Makoto becoming more and more like real Makoto, and blur the line between them. You weren't supposed to tell the difference. Same with the Ganma - they're just people who are doing something very understandable.

Yeah, the thing about Ghost is it's very much a story about people above all else. That's why I think the resolution to the fake Makoto subplot was actually really good. Instead of just taking a hit and dying as a consequence, which would've been REALLY generic, he very consciously makes a decision to sacrifice himself for the real Makoto. It really rubs in how much he kind of IS Makoto now way better than just having actually him be Makoto would be, in my opinion. I really like how he got the catchphrase in there too.

[ZeoRangerV]

Opinion time! I’ve been fairly quiet about my thoughts on Ghost for the last few months (unless you count my intermittent jabs at it on Twitter), but with the show about to wrap up I think I’m finally at a point where I can lay my thoughts out properly. Anyway, this episode in particular:

- I love movie/special tie-in material as much as the next person, but when things are as shoehorned in as Ghost has done it why even bother? The inexplicable Pink Necrom and Dark Ghost appearances were pointless, especially if the “joke” of having Dark Ghost appear was to have Edith say “it’s me” over and over to Takeru. The Frey/Freya stuff is even worse, because they didn’t even make sense in their own specials let alone here. The sad thing is that the one bit of movie plot I WOULD like to see carried over has been cast aside. Say what you want about Takeru’s father’s death in Movie War Genesis, but that scene has far more heart to it than “Oh hey Adel did it”.
- Unlike a lot here it seems I don’t really have a problem with Igor suddenly turning out to be in love with Akari, I think the show was just really clumsy in its delivery of it. I could buy Igor showing admiration towards her that hints at something more, just not “yeah its love” right away.
- Alain’s undoubtedly been the most endearing character on the show for me, and he really shined during his fight scene with Adel.
- Moving on from that, Adel’s redemption made thematic sense but again was far too rushed and/or ham-fisted. My bigger issue there was how it went from a touching family scene to Takeru telling the soon-to-be-dead Adel how his actions were unforgivable. That speech just really didn’t mesh with what was going on even if I do agree with him.
- The Makoto clone plotline came to a decent enough end for something that really felt like it was only there to give Specter something to do. This show has pushed the fake-out deaths way over the limit though.
- Oh hey it’s Kamen Rider Extremer. Is that going to get a poorly done movie throwback too or just be conveniently ignored?

Every week I come into these threads and read each post, and often I find myself in agreement with Fish Sandwich’s assessment of the show’s overall themes and bigger picture. My problem is that I feel like the show utterly fails on a week-by-week basis, and when broken down into components fails from jumping from thing to thing with only the smallest of explanations to carry it along. It’s good that there’s a bigger picture (one that only really centres on a handful of characters I guess, but its there), but if I can’t enjoy things episodically than how am I supposed to appreciate that?

Kamen Rider Ghost is undoubtedly the worst Rider show I’ve seen, but I don’t consider it completely without redemption. I feel like the writers knew exactly what story they wanted to tell, they just had absolutely no idea how to go about it.

[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

My bigger issue there was how it went from a touching family scene to Takeru telling the soon-to-be-dead Adel how his actions were unforgivable. That speech just really didn’t mesh with what was going on even if I do agree with him.

Woah woah wait, I think you're forgetting the two lines right after he says that that are even more important. Takeru is NOT suddenly s***ing on Adel in that scene.

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Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

My problem is that I feel like the show utterly fails on a week-by-week basis, and when broken down into components fails from jumping from thing to thing with only the smallest of explanations to carry it along.

I don't know about that. I think the week to week plots in Ghost were really good too. Probably the best VotW stuff we've ever gotten, because they tie it into the (here's that word again) themes so often.

Of course, I also thought the stuff with Adel was built up perfectly fine throughout the show (especially after Mugen debuted), so I guess I'm just crazy.

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Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

Kamen Rider Ghost is undoubtedly the worst Rider show I’ve seen,

Come on, worse than Kiva? That's just mean.

[ZeoRangerV]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

Woah woah wait, I think you're forgetting the two lines right after he says that that are even more important. Takeru is NOT suddenly s***ing on Adel in that scene.

I didn't say he was. I just said that line felt REALLY out of place given what had come before it, even if the following lines attempted to justify it.

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I don't know about that. I think the week to week plots in Ghost were really good too. Probably the best VotW stuff we've ever gotten, because they tie it into the (here's that word again) themes so often.

They can tie in with the themes all they want, but structurally I don't think they were any better than any other show's VoTW plots, and as I said only truly work as part of a bigger thing.

Which I'm not really going to care about if I can't enjoy something on a weekly basis.

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Of course, I also thought the stuff with Adel was built up perfectly fine throughout the show (especially after Mugen debuted), so I guess I'm just crazy.

I have very few problems with Adel to be honest. It could have been built up better, but a snotty kid who loses his way and develops a god complex works fine for me. It's only the Takeru's dad thing I take huge issue with.

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Come on, worse than Kiva? That's just mean.

I haven't seen Kiva. Or Faiz, Den-O and anything not completely subbed

[Pineapple924]

So I'll just say the bad stuff to get it all out of the way now.

What was the point of Narita? Shibuya was at least important enough to get an Arc with his mother. But what about Narita? what's his deal? Does he have a deal? Shame we'll never find out.

Speaking of things that we'll never find out. What happened to the Takeru's Mom Sub-sub-sub-sub-subplot? What was the point of all that?

Eveyyone else has pointed out the huge problem with Igor sacrificing himself for Akari, so I'm just gonna move on.

What was the point of having Akari and Onari saying they would stop Takeru from killing Adel, if Alain was the one to actually yell at Takeru to stop?

Did they really need to insert the big bad for the Ex-Aid Crossover two-parter, at the tail end of the final episode?! They could've waited till next week to have Great Eyezer (It's such a repaint of Extremer that it even kept Extremer's "-er" at the end it's freaking name) to show-up.

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With that out of the way.

The rest of this episode was actually pretty good. It kept to it's core message, it had good music, it managed to have Adel get his redemption while still punishing him for all he did. It even manages to reflect the series as a whole: Good but flawed execution.

Ultimately what makes this show either bad or good ultimately depends on whether you think those flaws outweigh the good parts or vice versa.

[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

I didn't say he was. I just said that line felt REALLY out of place given what had come before it, even if the following lines attempted to justify it.

But it isn't that they're attempting to justify it, it's that it's all one statement.
He's reassuring Adel that even though he's a piece of crap, his family doesn't care.

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Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

They can tie in with the themes all they want, but structurally I don't think they were any better than any other show's VoTW plots, and as I said only truly work as part of a bigger thing.

Which I'm not really going to care about if I can't enjoy something on a weekly basis.

I guess I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by that. They ARE part of a bigger thing, that doesn't change because you're watching it weekly. Everything builds on itself. How is it any different from being a serialized show? Gaim wasn't s*** just because it was a single narrative.

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Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

I haven't seen Kiva. Or Faiz, Den-O and anything not completely subbed

Well then you've yet to experience the true depths of mediocrity Kamen Rider can sink to...

Maybe watch Den-O though.

[ZeoRangerV]

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Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I guess I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by that. They ARE part of a bigger thing, that doesn't change because you're watching it weekly. Everything builds on itself. How is it any different from being a serialized show? Gaim wasn't s*** just because it was a single narrative.

I don't understand why you're having such a hard time understanding this. I can appreciate that there's a bigger story that's being told, but I'm simply not enjoying the episodes that tell them. I don't find them especially engaging, and while I can see what they're trying to say/do they just fall flat for various reasons. Of course everything builds on itself, but what is being presented in front of me isn't engaging and its only when I make the effort to sit back and think about what happened do I find the value in it.

Alternate example: I enjoy Decade and have fun with each episode but its overall story is a mess. To me Ghost is the opposite of that.

[Fish Sandwich]

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Originally Posted by ZeoRangerV

I don't understand why you're having such a hard time understanding this.

Because to me enjoying the destination and enjoying the ride there are two sides of the same coin.

I get what you're saying now though. Fair enough if that's how you feel.

[Enchilada645]

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Originally Posted by Pineapple924

Did they really need to insert the big bad for the Ex-Aid Crossover two-parter, at the tail end of the final episode?! They could've waited till next week to have Great Eyezer (It's such a repaint of Extremer that it even kept Extremer's "-er" at the end it's freaking name) to show-up.

Uh... the Great Eyezer is the final villain of Ghost. He's going to die next episode more than likely. Like literally there is nothing Crossover related about his appearance this week, at all. It's literally the Ganmaizer's assimilating the Great Eye and becoming this new being that looks like Extremer. Fitting since at first a lot of people thought that would be Adel's final form before we found out it was movie exclusive.

Really the "crossover" next time is going to amount to Kamen Rider Genmu showing up and wrecking stuff up with his BMX Bike. It's basically the equivalent of Ghost showing up in a dream-like state to Shinnosuke after his final battle. Just instead we've got Genmu crashing the finale for reals.

[DecadeW Climax]

I feel like this episode would've been epic if it had more backup in the episodes before it. I felt NOTHING when anything happened. Like what people said about Igor's sacrifice, there was nothing hinting at love before and the writers just lazily shoehorned it in. It just needs more substance from the rest of the season. Also, is it bad the only thing I'm looking forward to in the BIG climax next episode is the return of the Ore Damashii? Also Gramps saying that there's a rhinoceros beatle on one of the mook's back immediately made me shout, "BLADE!"