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01-23-2020, 02:43 PM | #91 |
New Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 17
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Yeah, I think it's down to how the secondary Rider's necessary antagonism is displayed. I mean, they have to be in some sort of conflict with the primary Rider, otherwise what's the point? But when that conflict moves outside the standard "want to kill monsters for different reasons" (Birth, Beast, Accel) or "has a legit grudge against the main Rider that can only be addressed through combat" (Specter, Grease), if it's not those two things and is a larger Frank Grimes-style critique of the show's premise or themes, that doesn't work as well for me. That's when I reflexively take the primary Rider and/or cast's side, and get a little cold-shoulder-y to the secondary Rider. I think Meteor's story had moves to it, it definitely grew beyond his deceptive debut, but I definitely sometimes felt like he was telling me that I shouldn't like watching Kamen Rider Fourze.
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01-23-2020, 03:58 PM | #92 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,611
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Honestly, I was just picking Accel to see if someone would be all How Dare You Accel Is My Spirit Animal. I don't mind Accel! I'm mostly into the fact that folks will feel strongly about Riders I wouldn't think too much about. That's pretty fun for me to see, the passion for Riders that are barely a blip on my radar. Accel and Meteor are maybe my two least-favorite Phase 2 Riders (I don't even dislike them, I'm largely indifferent to them), and I wonder if anyone out there just, like, adores them. I guess I was trolling, a bit, to see if someone would want to argue on behalf of Ryu Terui. Somebody's probably got feelings about that guy! (I will say this: dude says the best Henshin of the entire franchise, maybe.) (To clarify, the way he says Henshin is my favorite. "Hen... ... ... ... SHIN!" It's like he's forcing it out of his body. He's going to give himself a hernia saying Henshin someday!)
As to Wizard, what kills me is that I think it gets better by the end. The last string of episodes have some smart plotting and difficult emotions. It's a lot of the first two thirds that I find criminally dull. Jokes aside Accel was at first a total Hojo for me but then as the story progressed and he grew as a person within the narrative he began to cement his position as one of my favorite riders. What really sealed the deal for me was that certain "I got you bro, let's burn this mofo down" moment he had with Shotaro in the W summer movie IIRC. Plus he pretty much becomes Kenshiro from Fist Of The North Star but with his feet after he goes Trial and THAT IS COOL.
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Last edited by Sunred; 01-23-2020 at 04:01 PM.. |
01-23-2020, 05:21 PM | #93 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Quote:
How Dare You Accel Is My Spirit Animal.There, I said it.
Jokes aside Accel was at first a total Hojo for me but then as the story progressed and he grew as a person within the narrative he began to cement his position as one of my favorite riders. What really sealed the deal for me was that certain "I got you bro, let's burn this mofo down" moment he had with Shotaro in the W summer movie IIRC. Plus he pretty much becomes Kenshiro from Fist Of The North Star but with his feet after he goes Trial and THAT IS COOL.
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01-23-2020, 05:58 PM | #94 |
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Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 71
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I'm loving that you appreciate Shouichi's mindfulness so much, by the way; he's a great main character and I really liked the choices the narrative made with him. Even with a lot of sweet and kind of dorky main heroes, he's always stood out for me with how much he is always in the moment. Definitely a favorite. |
01-23-2020, 05:59 PM | #95 |
Ex-Weather Three leader
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,611
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Ryu definitely has some positives, for sure. If someone put a gun to my head and asked me to defend Accel (weird, but not totally unexpected these days), I could probably talk about how rad his look is, civilian and Rider, how his unflappable cool demeanor balances nicely against Philip's easy-going inquisitiveness and Shotaro's trying-too-hard smoothness, how the steps he takes to earn Trial from Shroud is incredibly rewarding storytelling... I don't hate Accel! I'm glad that folks can seemingly find a favorite Rider in every Rider. That's an awesome fandom, and a healthy franchise.
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01-23-2020, 06:13 PM | #96 |
Kamen Ride Or Die
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,159
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Takeuchi Ryoma was allegedly the reason Accel guest-starred in the Chaser film, so Accel is definitely someone's favorite!
I'm loving that you appreciate Shouichi's mindfulness so much, by the way; he's a great main character and I really liked the choices the narrative made with him. Even with a lot of sweet and kind of dorky main heroes, he's always stood out for me with how much he is always in the moment. Definitely a favorite. For Agito, yeah, Shouichi's a very distinct Rider, which is ironic considering how much Agito visually blends with Kuuga. Maybe that's a reason why he doesn't seem to get as much love as I think he deserves? Maybe if the Agito suits were as distinct as his character, people'd be more vocal about enjoying Agito? Quote:
This was/is fun to think about! I gotta go watch some Agito now, though. Thanks for the interesting discussion!
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01-23-2020, 06:15 PM | #97 |
The Immortal King Tasty
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Every diner you've ever been to.
Posts: 3,833
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Ryuusei, I mean, that's not even a hard one. He was in Fourze, which basically by itself means I love him. He's got the whole secret identity thing going on, which led to the memorable little twist of him transforming away from the battle, and then showing up, you know, like a meteor, which was a unique spin. Tomoko was my favorite member of the KRC before the show even premiered, so I mean, if she likes him, I'm practically obligated to agree. The fact that he actually did end up murdering Gentarou with a one-inch punch was one of the most shocking and memorable bits in the series, because I think nobody was really expecting things to get pushed that far, and I think that episode might've been directed by Sakamoto if I'm remembering right, which would make it even better, and if I'm also remembering right, that plot beat happened after he had warmed up to the Club, making it way more dramatically interesting for his character than if he was still the same stubborn jerk, where you'd only care about it from Gentarou's perspective. And- See, Meteor's not even necessarily one of my absolute favorites, and I can barely stop myself from going on about him once you ask me to think about it. I didn't even mention the cool design, or the amazing sounds all his gear makes (Okay!), or his overly dramatic catchphrase that gets an obvious but heartwarming twist in the finale, or- Argh! You know, the whole point I was actually trying to get around to here is that there are secondary Riders I always took for granted. There are some, like Date from OOO, who's a huge fan favorite, who I'm personally not really that passionate about at all, who are still great, and who I could easily list off dozens of things I like about them. Heck, I'm a huge fan of Ghost, and I went through a period of not caring about Specter wlll that much that lasted from after he stopped being an antagonist to right up until after the show ended, when I started looking back through aol the episodes to make my huge thread and realized Makoto is actually a total legend constantly doing awesome things the entire show. Secondary Riders are great, is the point. It'd probably be harder to find one who doesn't have something going for them.
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Last edited by Fish Sandwich; 01-23-2020 at 06:52 PM.. |
01-23-2020, 08:31 PM | #98 |
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Location: Chicago, IL
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They honestly all are! When I was mentioning Accel all the way back, it was as a punchline for a joke where there needed to be, like, a lesser Rider, someone who wasn't beloved like Beast or Baron or someone, and I was trying to think of a secondary Rider who didn't work for me. The best I could come up with is Accel, who I actually really do like. Even for a joke, I couldn't think of a shitty secondary Rider. They kind-of all rule? Like I was saying before, it's a testament to the strength of this franchise that they all have things worth championing them for.
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01-23-2020, 08:39 PM | #99 |
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Location: Chicago, IL
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MASKED RIDER AGITO EPISODES 15 - 17
So, first, obviously, we have to address the most consequential development of this three-part story: Nijou thinks maybe there's a chance that this Houjou guy might, are you sitting down, not be a good guy. He might even be, and I can't believe I'm saying this, a jerk. You guys. YOU GUYS. I've said before that one of my favorite things about Agito is how utterly one-sided the Houjou/Nijou feud is, so this development is... I don't know. Wait and see. If this is the last time we get to experience the purity of Nijou just completely not getting that Houjou is trying to roast him, at least we went out with maybe the best one. First Houjou pulls a brutal Oh Nijou I Didn't See You There Since You're So Forgettable, and then adds on a The G3 System Won't Matter If We Can Harness The Power Of Agito And No One Will Ever Need You Ever Again Nijou I Hate You And You Suck. And, god bless him, Nijou's response is that maybe Houjou has a point. Unreal. I love this dynamic so much. There's a follow-up one, where Houjou's like Once I Win Because I'm Awesome No One Will Need You So Maybe You Can Help With Traffic, and I was convinced Nijou was going to talk about how maybe he could help with traffic, it's a real nuisance, gosh, thanks so much Houjou! It's a little disappointing that he's clued in now that Houjou goddamn despises him and wants to taste his tears. Still, I don't want to judge too quickly or too harshly. Maybe there's some fun moves coming up for these two. That's maybe all the good will I can muster for this story, though. (Well, the final fights were strong. Gills getting lit up by the cops and then fighting G3 to a draw was neat!) I have no idea why this one wound up being three parts, considering we ended up learning nothing of significance regarding any of the central mysteries, like the Akatsuki-gou or Shouichi's past or the Unknown or Mana's dad or anything like that. A couple crumbs, sure. There's a voice on the blank video saying "come here", but no clue who's saying it or where "here" is. The survivors of the Akatsuki-gou are meeting in secret and conspiring around Agito, but we don't know who besides Aki, or why. It's a whole bunch of delays and feints, with no real catharsis to be worth dragging it all out for three episodes. What we do get is three episodes of people acting like total idiots, and rarely in a fun way. Aki shows up, pretending to be a newly-hired housekeeper (that they already have one of, it's Shouichi, he does it for free) that no one was told about, and everyone but Mana is totally fine with it. She's a stranger, and they're just fine letting her hang out. Then, after she's been caught in a very obvious lie she told to con her way into their home, she goes Oh Shouichi's My Boyfriend, and again Mana's the only one who thinks this sounds incredibly sketchy. I get that Shouichi's supposed to be sweet and trusting, but this is all so gallingly stupid that it's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. All of this is so flimsy and unconvincing that it weirdly loops around to making me think, yeah, I can see why Uncle might pay someone the same age as Shouchi to take care of Shouichi because he is startlingly bad at taking care of himself. So, maybe it's a dumb plot, but it's no dumber than the characters in this story besides Mana. She's great, and my heart went out to her on this one. And, you know, it went out to Ryou in this story. I liked his plot, but it took a while. His investigative style is... well, his brain was not exactly in Top Gear on this one. He just cold walked up to a stranger, presented his confusing and circumstantial evidence, and then demanded she tell him the truth. That's it! It's sloppy and lazy, just like hanging around outside her house until she talks to him, but I thought it really landed at the end, where he admits that he sucks at this (he truly does!), but also that he mostly doesn't even care. He's only doing it because he has nothing else left in his life. That's... I actually said out loud, "Huh!" when it happened. I was not expecting this show to say that one of its central mysteries is purely busywork for a guy who has lost everything except this stupid mystery. It's a way of lampshading how inept Ryou is in tracking down leads and discerning truth, but in a way that allows for a secretive character to take pity on him. I mean, nothing comes of it in this story, the mystery is still unsolved, but I was okay with it becoming more about how lost Ryou is, then some dumb connection to his dad or or a driving need to expose injustice or whatever. It's real interesting to me, an investigator driven by ennui and existential dread. I kind-of hope it continues along that line, with Ryou walking up to people from his dad's notebook and just breaking down crying, right in front of them, blubbering about the "Akat*sob*suki*sob*-gou*sob*", and them being all "I WILL TELL YOU WHATEVER YOU WANT TO KNOW JUST OH MY GOD PLEASE STOP CRYING I AM AT WORK RIGHT NOW" No spoilers for the continuation of this storyline, since I'm pretty certain I'm right, thanks!
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Currently working on: Go-Busters is next! Archive of previous shows on KamenRiderDie.com! Last edited by Kamen Rider Die; 05-13-2023 at 03:00 PM.. |
01-23-2020, 09:26 PM | #100 |
Showa Girl
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 9,064
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Ah, yes. The Fish Scene. I'm not going to ask why you didn't talk more about it, because frankly; ending off your post with a single image of it out of nowhere with no lead-up or context is about as perfectly as it can be put.
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