[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

It's just really difficult for me to explain the emotion of watching this episode, seeing this story play out.

What if I just talk about that part, then.

There's a beauty to a lot of this episode, but especially the scenes in Sano's apartment. The way those scenes focus on Toujou, how they don't seem to be about judging him or punishing him, but are about trying to understand him, to reach him. They're scenes that value Toujou's journey, that allow him autonomy. Even in his his horrifying villainy, there's a feeling of sadness for him, in this episode. I think that feeling, along with the regrettable inevitability of Sano's death, it saturates this episode. Watching it was... harrowing, maybe. The small moments where real humanity is shown become these, like, flickers in the darkness. Toujou's confession, Sano's death scene, they were perfectly pitched and immensely real.

I still don't feel like I'm describing this well.

[Fish Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I still don't feel like I'm describing this well.

No, no, I think it's coming across pretty clearly. You're saying the episode... is good!

It's okay if this takes a million more posts to get out of your system, though. Like, that in of itself might be the biggest possible statement about your feelings on it you could make? Or something? The crazy part is, there's still going to be more Tiger to talk about after this.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

No, no, I think it's coming across pretty clearly. You're saying the episode... is good!

It's okay if this takes a million more posts to get out of your system, though. Like, that in of itself might be the biggest possible statement about your feelings on it you could make? Or something? The crazy part is, there's still going to be more Tiger to talk about after this.

I feel like I'm in that room with them, and I always will be. I'm the chirping bird, and the cage is my weird feelings about Toujou and Sano.

[Kamen Rider Die]

All of the scenes of Sano's success, I love how unreal they are. There's a dreamlike quality to them, all these old men telling him how great he is, how special and perfect he is. The speed at which he ascends to the heights he always dreamed of, it's bizarre. It'd be a joke, if it didn't feel like a parable.

It's heightened, but everything in this story feels heightened. Or not everything, and that's why the heightened stuff works so well? It's that apartment. It's like an anchor for the story, a refuge from a world of dreams and nightmares. Toujou smashing the windows, covering the reflections, it sets that part of the story outside of the narrative, allows it to be smaller, more intimate. The time spent on Toujou just getting out of bed! Those smaller scenes, they emphasize and underline how absurd Sano's life has become, how little he's changed fundamentally despite the absurdity. He can have a flashy car and a briefcase of cash (that look on Ren's face, the way money doesn't matter except this isn't money this is MONEY), but he's still a small man, trying to figure himself out, trying to understand his own motivations.

That apartment. Man. It's key to what makes this story work, I think.

[DreadBringer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I did read it, yes! I didn't really have anything to say about it, though. Sorry! It was good!

Oh well just that there're times where you keep using your takes in discussions without change after I explained and corrected something (ex: Shiro controlling monsters, Reiko-Kitaoka stuff for a while, etc.), so I thought you ignored those parts, I also want to know if there's a hole in my explanations or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Yeah, but then it'd be cold-blooded murder, and... I just don't think Kitaoka's that guy? Or, at least, he isn't anymore, if he ever was.

Oh well I think he doesn't like getting his hands dirty (partly why he shoots)... but either way shooting him isn't the only way like you can drag him into Mirror World (taking away his Deck too) or just turn him into the police again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

I did want to bring this up, but I forgot. It is criminal that a franchise with a sprawling number of characters that turn into bugmen gave a copy of Kafka's Metamorphosis to a tigerman. So close!

Really you should've. It also carries a deeper meaning philosophically, as the review site I talk about attests.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Someone can earn something and it can still be sad to see them receive it. Plus, it's basic cause-and-effect storytelling. Of course Shinji's going to want to pound Sano after a betrayal that lead to Yui's disappearance. Shinji's very trusting, but he's got a well-established temper. Sano popping out of a floorboard like everything's cool, that's going to set Shinji off for sure. Just because I found Sano and Toujou sympathetic doesn't mean I'm going to forgive all of their bad decisions, nor am I rooting against Shinji.

C̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶a̶t̶t̶r̶i̶b̶u̶t̶e̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶o̶ ̶S̶a̶n̶o̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶h̶a̶n̶d̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶n̶-̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶e̶r̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶w̶h̶o̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶M̶i̶r̶r̶o̶r̶ ̶M̶o̶n̶s̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶e̶a̶c̶h̶ ̶g̶l̶a̶s̶s̶e̶s̶/̶m̶i̶r̶r̶o̶r̶s̶.̶ Won't have time to break all mirrors surrounding you, gotta destroy all buildings as most places have reflective surface to keep people safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

Weird, there are a ton of errors on that page. All of the Riders were born on the exact same day to 13 different mothers. (The studio was forced to cast all of them if they wanted any of them, that's why there are thirteen Riders in Ryuki.) Auntie's definitely only 22. I'll contact the webmaster at once to get that corrected. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

What are you... smoking here?

[Kamen Rider Die]

(yay i can stop thinking about episode 44 for a second)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Oh well just that there're times where you keep using your takes in discussions without change after I explained and corrected something (ex: Shiro controlling monsters, Reiko-Kitaoka stuff for a while, etc.), so I thought you ignored those parts, I also want to know if there's a hole in my explanations or something.

I'm only one man! I'm doing my best!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Oh well I think he doesn't like getting his hands dirty (partly why he shoots)... but either way shooting him isn't the only way like you can drag him into Mirror World (taking away his Deck too) or just turn him into the police again.

Well, Kitaoka tells Asakura in a previous episode that he's not going to get the police involved again, since Asakura will just break out.

But, more than that, I think it's that sportsmanship thing coming back up again. Kitaoka wouldn't have any problem killing Asakura in a Rider Battle, but at this point I don't think he'd take him out when he's defenseless. It's character growth! Goro would be so proud!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

Really you should've. It also carries a deeper meaning philosophically, as the review site I talk about attests.

I'm only one man! I'm doing my best!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreadBringer

What are you... smoking here?

Sometimes there are jokes.

[Magnugiga]

When you started talking about Toujou/Sano symbiosis a couple episodes back, all I could think to myself was "I can't wait to see this guy's reaction to that part", but even then I didn't expect this

After all that, I had to go back and watch the Toujou-Sano scenes and the climax of this ep myself... and boy, I forgot how insanely good the visual framing/composition was for this. The last few minutes in particular; Sano staggering while yelling repeatedly at the piece of glass, each sounded progressively more desperate than the last (fantastic piece of acting, by the way). Yuri standing in desolation under the rain (she didn't got much screentime or lines even, but we could tell how badly she wanted this to work out). Last words from Sano. Glass shattered. Impeccable trio of shots to close out in complete silence: the empty street, bird in a cage, the empty room.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Sandwich

I think that's why these four episodes, focused so squarely on two side characters that everything involving Shirou and Yui somehow becomes the B-plot, they're really good. There's some spectacular characterization going on, and the gut-punch tragic ending is among the least forced that kind of Inoue melodrama gets. Like, it's legitimately a little haunting, and I've always remembered it visually super strongly even all these years later, which made a lot more sense to me when I went to check the director credits for these episodes and found out that the 43 and 44 were done by Hidenori Ishida, who I keep finding out I apparently have nothing but good things to say about.

I'm not as well-versed as you guys regarding the names of KR directors/screenwriters and their respective stylish trait, but this makes me want to learn. I have a sudden hunch that there may be a common thread among the moments that most affected me, emotionally speaking, from the Phase I shows (Ryuki and Faiz in particular).

(Also I was going to watch a newer KR show for the first time after I'm done with the current shows I'm watching... screw that though, I'm going to re-watch Ryuki instead :v Blame this whole thread).

[Sunred]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamen Rider Die

All of the scenes of Sano's success, I love how unreal they are. There's a dreamlike quality to them, all these old men telling him how great he is, how special and perfect he is. The speed at which he ascends to the heights he always dreamed of, it's bizarre. It'd be a joke, if it didn't feel like a parable.

It's heightened, but everything in this story feels heightened. Or not everything, and that's why the heightened stuff works so well? It's that apartment. It's like an anchor for the story, a refuge from a world of dreams and nightmares. Toujou smashing the windows, covering the reflections, it sets that part of the story outside of the narrative, allows it to be smaller, more intimate. The time spent on Toujou just getting out of bed! Those smaller scenes, they emphasize and underline how absurd Sano's life has become, how little he's changed fundamentally despite the absurdity. He can have a flashy car and a briefcase of cash (that look on Ren's face, the way money doesn't matter except this isn't money this is MONEY), but he's still a small man, trying to figure himself out, trying to understand his own motivations.

That apartment. Man. It's key to what makes this story work, I think.

Sano's story is very Twilight Zone-esque in retrospect after reading this.

[Kamen Rider Die]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnugiga

When you started talking about Toujou/Sano symbiosis a couple episodes back, all I could think to myself was "I can't wait to see this guy's reaction to that part", but even then I didn't expect this

I feel like I was able to make up in quantity what I lacked in quality. It's better than nothing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnugiga

After all that, I had to go back and watch the Toujou-Sano scenes and the climax of this ep myself... and boy, I forgot how insanely good the visual framing/composition was for this. The last few minutes in particular; Sano staggering while yelling repeatedly at the piece of glass, each sounded progressively more desperate than the last (fantastic piece of acting, by the way). Yuri standing in desolation under the rain (she didn't got much screentime or lines even, but we could tell how badly she wanted this to work out). Last words from Sano. Glass shattered. Impeccable trio of shots to close out in complete silence: the empty street, bird in a cage, the empty room.

That sequence is so good that it's easy to forget that, uh, Yuri isn't really a character! Normally that'd bug me, but her presence is just as Wish Fulfillment as everything else in Sano's story. But, yeah, everything about how long it takes Sano to die is amazing. The actor who plays Sano finds something primal in this weird mirror death, the bargaining for one last chance, and that desperate desire to be seen, to be acknowledged... Goddamn, it hits like a truck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnugiga

(Also I was going to watch a newer KR show for the first time after I'm done with the current shows I'm watching... screw that though, I'm going to re-watch Ryuki instead :v Blame this whole thread).

I hope you like it! I hear it's pretty good! I'm planning on catching it someday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunred

Sano's story is very Twilight Zone-esque in retrospect after reading this.

It really is! His whole situation in this is a tragedy straight out of the Rod Serling playbook. He became a Rider to get rich, got rich anyway, then got killed for being a Rider. It's a man being punished for his shortsightedness, his impatience. He was never seen by the rich people, and then he died as a rich person who wasn't seen.

[Switchblade]

Sano's death is one of the Toshiki Inoue-est moments in all of Kamen Rider. It works and is really memorable, but it has a very specific flavor of pathos that is classic Inoue.